Steve, I am not a symbol expert, but I did know the late Manuel Ortiz in Nogales Arizona. He was the volunteer Spanish historican there covering five generations. The first Ortiz here in the seventh century was the kings tax collector. Manuel once told me that when the King allowed men to represent him in the areas north of New Spain that all explorers were train in the symbols of the crown and exactly how to apply them. Each Galera had to have so many piests, worker prayer stations, missions and militia to support the mining Galera. Each canyon was marked and coded as to what that canyon held, if anything. Each mine was symboled to the location. After all, all explorers were the Kings men. This was fine as long as the King still supported his men in the field. But after a few years in the new world wilderness it was obvious that the king wasn't to get his fifth for services he didn't support. It would take six months to get a loaf of bread or any other commodity the field people needed. So the mission started the Genti-de-reson, which was a co-op share type of barder. This vault was station at Toboc. Basically the missions got into mining for trade commodities with other countries but spain. After many years here, these people were now New Spain people not Spainish. Their cultures were different and certainly their needs were different. Gold was excepted everywhere. In a day or so the missions could purchase anything. With the King cut off, soon private mining companies sprange up all of the Pacific states half of the United States. This attitude is why people went to huge efforts NOT to pay the kings fifth on ore they had mined. Volumes are written about this deceit to the king. These people also used codes but deliberately NOT of the kings instructions. Why in the world would they want to inform the King of Spain of their interprise and have him at a later date confiscated their interests? Therefore, it seems, at a point in history all signs and symbols became the communication of the code writer himself, as you have stated. I think the late Chuck Kenworthy communicates this change in his Spanish Monuments book to Treasure. These monuments were laboriously placed everywhere in the south west. The age of exploration and early mining are very interesting and tons of ore were pulled out crushed and cached by each Galera by having indentured Indian slave labor making this ecomocally possible. Richard g

• You nailed it Steve 11:32:45 4/13/99 (6)
  • Re: lost enigmas-steve Richard Walburn 19:00:17 4/13/99 (5)
    • Whow...Frank Fish Rob 10:05:47 4/14/99 (4)
      • Re: Whow...Frank Fish --to Rob Richard Walburn 15:09:08 4/14/99 (0)
      • Re: Whow...Frank Fish Rob 14:41:56 4/14/99 (2)
        • Re: Whow...Frank Fish-toRob Richard Walburn 15:26:45 4/14/99 (1)
          • Re: Whow...Frank Fish-toRob Rob 09:01:28 4/15/99 (0)