Another Bird and a Gar Scale

[Airborne80]

Pickins is slim these days. I have to take what i get

[seger98]

I'd be happy!

[Airborne80]

I'd be happy!

I am The thing about this particular Gar scale is its beautiful and polished color. I know the Indians at this site used them for points but not all of the ones I find look this awesome. In fact of all of them.... this is the only one that I have seen that is pearl like in color and feel. Thanks for posting.

[TripleCreek]

Airborne,

I do not think your first point is an arrowhead at all. It is the right shape, but has not been "worked". There is no flaking involved in its manufacture. It's just a random fracture that came out as the right shape.

Are you in an area where you are finding Flakes on the ground? Each arrowhead made produces, as a by product, a least a hundred flakes. (Debatash) If your in a good area, you should be finding 50 flakes, to each arrowhead. I look for flakes on the ground, to find, confirm, a good spot to hunt.

I have no idea about the about the gar scale. It looks very nicely, polished? Would a gar scale hold up a few hundred years in the soil? What kind of an area are you hunting, Creek bottoms, plowed field, eroded flats ?

Best Regards,
3creek

[SouthernGirl]

I had never heard anything about gar scales so I looked it up and here is a website I found. Way to go on your find Airborne.
http://lithiccastinglab.com/gallery-...calespage1.htm

[Airborne80]

Quote:
"I do not think your first point is an arrowhead at all. It is the right shape, but has not been "worked". There is no flaking involved in its manufacture. It's just a random fracture that came out as the right shape. "

Air: It may not be, but I do find a heck of a lot of these. Mostly quartz and like this one, they are all tapered at the base. As for the lack of flaking, that issue comes up a lot with folks on this site. I have to say, in the one year now that I have been doing this, I have learned a couple of important things. One is that lack of visible flaking does not rule out a point. There are a few reasons. One is that many or most of my points are found in the water on the banks of a very large river. The site was a fishing village, used for thousands of years. Washing around in a river is like a stone in a tumbler… its gets pretty smooth after a while. We are talking about a tidal basin river with lots of movement daily, times hundreds or thousands of years. I have framed, no questions asked arrowheads with absolutely no visible flaking whatsoever. Also, the material used in my area of Northern Virginia is such that it does not always show flaking. Now…. Some of it does and for a year, I collected the flakes. See below.

Quote:
Are you in an area where you are finding Flakes on the ground? Each arrowhead made produces, as a by product, a least a hundred flakes. (Debatash) If your in a good area, you should be finding 50 flakes, to each arrowhead. I look for flakes on the ground, to find, confirm, a good spot to hunt.

Aie: Yes….. see the photos (very poor photos but its late and I am to tired to get them under the light) below. These are flakes, and chunks of quartz that are all over the area where I hunt.

Quote:
I have no idea about the about the gar scale. It looks very nicely, polished? Would a gar scale hold up a few hundred years in the soil? What kind of an area are you hunting, Creek bottoms, plowed field, eroded flats ?

Best Regards,
3creek

Air:
Yea… the Gar scales were used as points by some Indians and they are as hard or harder than a finger nail. They last for a long, long time. I have many but this is the only one that I have ever found or seen that is so polished. It’s a strange one.

I hope that gave you a little more information and I thank you for your comments. Stay safe and good luck.:

[Airborne80]

On the subject of lack of visible flakes, I use the below point as a good example. I posted this point here a while back and with the exception of two folks, everyone advised me that it was a geofact. This was based on the lack of visible flaking. I had this point examined by an expert in local Indian artifacts and discovered that it is in fact a very old Morrow Mountain. Molly…. You were right again!  Those familiar with this area of Northern Virginia and the North Carolina area understand that we do not have the material that is found in many other states. You take obsidian for example out west….. clear signs of flaking. There are many others but not here. Of all of my 25 confirmed arrowheads (meaning no question about them), only a very few have visible flaking.

Just something to think about  Thanks for looking.

[Airborne80]

I had never heard anything about gar scales so I looked it up and here is a website I found. Way to go on your find Airborne.
http://lithiccastinglab.com/gallery-...calespage1.htm

I had never heard of them either. When I posted a few on this site, somone directed me to that site as well. Thank you very much for posting your thoughts and the information. Stay safe.

[TripleCreek]

Airborne,

Thanks for the update, and the additional information.

I agree that "tidal wash" will erode a lot of the flaking off of a point. (the quarts point you just posted, on another post, is a good example of eroded, but definitely a nice point. Nice clean pretty material too.) The dark granite looking point, that you picture above also seems not to have obvious flaking, but I agree that is a legitimate point. Some materials show flaking much better then others.

It is just my opinion that the piece shown first on this post is not an artifact. I could be wrong though.

Thanks for the additional pictures, and the context for your finds. I enjoy looking at what other people are finding. I am about to get a better digital camera, then I can post some pictures myself, so you can criticize them.

I enjoy a good debate. Please do not be offended, nothing personal.

Best Regards,
3creeks

[Airborne80]

Airborne,

Thanks for the update, and the additional information.

I agree that "tidal wash" will erode a lot of the flaking off of a point. (the quarts point you just posted, on another post, is a good example of eroded, but definitely a nice point. Nice clean pretty material too.) The dark granite looking point, that you picture above also seems not to have obvious flaking, but I agree that is A legitimate point. Some materials show flaking much better then others.

It is just my opinion that the piece shown first on this post is not an artifact. I could be wrong though.

Thanks for the additional pictures, and the context for your finds. I enjoy looking at what other people are finding. I am about to get a better digital camera, then I can post some pictures myself, so you can criticize them.

I enjoy a good debate. Please do not be offended, nothing personal.

Best Regards,
3creeks

Thanks brother. I am still new (one year now) at this addiction but put in at least two days a week when the sun goes down early and everyday when the day lasts longer. As I get more familiar with my area of hunting and i read any and everything that I can find on the subject of Indian activity in my area, I have come to believe that there are no exacts. What I mean is.... not all points have flakes (as we discussed) but also, not all points are "Overstreet' or book identifiable. Lets take a fishing village site that saw use for thousands of years. How many different groups passed through, using different material, bringing different skill sets? How many fishermen, who knew that the odds of losing a point in the river when they speared fish from a dugout was better than not.... and in light of that, did not fashion ornate points. Like the first item in this post, while in most areas it would be considered a flake at best, it was in the water where they fished for thousands of years, I find it more probbible that it was a hastily crafted point to be used and lost while fishing. Why do I think this way? Is it because I am desperate to find an artifact or that i am in denial? No... its because I find soooooo many quartz items like this that are obviously tapered at the base and triangular in shape.
No, I am an investigator by profession and am not quick to rule out possibilities and in many cases, probabilities. When I consider all of the above with an emphasis on the recurring discover of similar items, all at the waters edge and in a fishing village site..... i am hard pressed to believe that nature makes all other stones smooth except in this area.... where they are triangular and tapered at the base.


I really appreciate your post and though I am sensitive as long as you don't laugh at my posts out loud, I also love to debate.... with a very open mind. The more folks here discuss ideas and are not to locked into a belief system that does not allow for a new discovery..... I find that I learn lots.


Thanks again and stay safe

[allen]

beautiful find ...

[Molly.]

I always stated that point was/is a Morrow Mt. Unless you actually hunt & collect here in NC/VA you are always going to say they are Geofacts. I have come across so many on the site I hunt on.

The Gar Scales are great finds, wish I could find some. Way to go on those AB.

You are doing great hon. Good luck with your next hunt.

BTW... did ya write up that St Albans up in your will yet for me?

Molly.