My first in-situ! UPDATE-more pics added from today 3-8-09

[Charmin]

This is my first post in this part of the TNet forum. My daughters and I have permission to detect on some private land(Northern Okla./Southern Kansas) and the landowners are fixing some creek crossings/water gaps. They have been doing some major dozer work and we decided to stop and look the gravel bar on our way to metal detect. We found some arrowheads/points! This was the first time I got to take an in-situ shot! The arrowhead was stuck in the mud with only the end showing and the dozer had been back and forth across it. I sure was praying it would come out whole and it did!! My littlest daughter(5) found a broken point and the oldest(13) found a couple of scrapers and a broken blade. If anyone could tell us about the material/age of these things and ID the type of points, we would certainly appreciate it! What is the blue chert called? and is the tan material Kay county chert? also, what about the pink material? Thanks for looking and for any info you might have~~~~~sandcreek4

Update 3-8-09
We went back to this site today and found some more points and flint(debitage). We looked in the water along the edge of the creek and pulled out another red point. There was also another point made of foreacre chert. We found lots of pieces that look like they were worked along the edges(are these preforms?) . Todays pictures are 7, 8, 9, 10, 11--I tried to modify this post and put them at the bottom, but it didn't work--sorry! Thanks for looking~~sandcreek4

[GL]

I would be all over that spot walking and looking down. Looks very promising, have no clue about them though. Nice however.

[Charmin]

I would be all over that spot walking and looking down. Looks very promising, have no clue about them though. Nice however.

Thanks GL--we'll be going back, but we need some rain to clean the mud off everything! regards, sandcreek4

[The Grim Reaper]

First off, congrats on your first in situ pictures. They look very nice.

The material on that point looks like Conglomerate to me. I have only seen one other point made from this material and a buddy of mine has it. That stuff had to be a real mother to chip.

[Charmin]

First off, congrats on your first in situ pictures. They look very nice.

The material on that point looks like Conglomerate to me. I have only seen one other point made from this material and a buddy of mine has it. That stuff had to be a real mother to chip.

Thanks DorkFish for that info--I guess those are little fossils in it(the little white things?). It doesn't have very good chipping, but at least it was whole! sandcreek4

[The Grim Reaper]

If those are fossils in the material then it could also be Boyle Chert.

[sidmind]

The little pink one looks allot like one my wife found this weekend,

< Click for large image

Neanderthal from these forums identified it as "The other point appears to be a Cossattot River, the predecessor to the Calf Creek." < quote

so it is around 9000 years old or so from what I can gather, even though yours is broke, that is pretty cool to find one that old, and I love the blue one.

basically anything you find in this part of Oklahoma that is grey or pink and also has swirly lines in it is probably Kay County chert, it turns pink is after it's heat treated.

very nice finds, were they near a river?

[pickaway]

Congrats on the finds...

[Charmin]

The little pink one looks allot like one my wife found this weekend,

< Click for large image

Neanderthal from these forums identified it as "The other point appears to be a Cossattot River, the predecessor to the Calf Creek." < quote

so it is around 9000 years old or so from what I can gather, even though yours is broke, that is pretty cool to find one that old, and I love the blue one.

basically anything you find in this part of Oklahoma that is grey or pink and also has swirly lines in it is probably Kay County chert, it turns pink is after it's heat treated.

very nice finds, were they near a river?

Thanks sidmind for the information--these were found near a creek. You and your wife find lots of great stuff! sandcreek4

If those are fossils in the material then it could also be Boyle Chert.

Thanks again-DorkFish! sandcreek4

Congrats on the finds...

Thanks pickaway! regards, sandcreek4

[Neanderthal]

The Hopewell point is made of fossiliferous "Foreacre" chert. Pretty material and common for the area. The tan material is most likely a raw Florence "A", and the red can be just about anything heated (Florence, Keokuk, etc). Can't make out the red one real good, but appears it may have had a pentagonal blade (Afton)? You have alot of random debitage in there, keep checking the site. The rectangular "blade" could be an adze. Feel along the sides (profile) of it and see if it's smoothed down on the long edges.


Sid, the Cossattot River of yours would be around 7,500-6,000 years old. They aren't referenced as being part of the Calf Creek Complex in literature, but they are. They are found in direct context with Calf Creek, but share an age that is slightly earlier. I wrote a comparative sequencing of the Coss & Calf some years back that goes into a bit of detail about the subject.

[Charmin]

The Hopewell point is made of fossiliferous "Foreacre" chert. Pretty material and common for the area. The tan material is most likely a raw Florence "A", and the red can be just about anything heated (Florence, Keokuk, etc). Can't make out the red one real good, but appears it may have had a pentagonal blade (Afton)? You have alot of random debitage in there, keep checking the site. The rectangular "blade" could be an adze. Feel along the sides (profile) of it and see if it's smoothed down on the long edges.


Sid, the Cossattot River of yours would be around 7,500-6,000 years old. They aren't referenced as being part of the Calf Creek Complex in literature, but they are. They are found in direct context with Calf Creek, but share an age that is slightly earlier. I wrote a comparative sequencing of the Coss & Calf some years back that goes into a bit of detail about the subject.

Thanks Neanderthal for the info--here's a couple of closer pics and a ruler for size reference. We'll be going back to check this spot for sure!

[Neanderthal]

Ahhh, much better pics! The Hopewell and the Adze / broken knife are both made of Foreacre. The "red" ones are both made of Heated Kay (Florence A). The small one is not Afton, but appears to be a completely used up Haskell dart instead. Kay will often have the fuselinids like the Foreacre, but to a much lesser degree. The uniface blade / scraper is made of raw Florence, along with the other yellowish / tan pieces. The white broken preform is made of Keokuk chert.

Before it gets suggested that your uniface blade is undoubtedly Paleo, I'll go ahead and state that it's more than likely Hopewell, or even later. Hopewell practiced core technology to great degrees and it's especially common out to the western fringes of the distribution (where you are). One of the best Hopewell caches I've seen came from just north of Kaw in Kansas. It contained many knives identical to what you're showing. COMMONLY, they are extremely well made with oblique parallel flaking that would made any Allen knapper jealous. In short, I have seen more Hopewell uniface scrapers out of the area (in datable context) than others. They were made in all time periods by several different cultures, regardless of popular theory.

That's a great variety of points that covers a decently wide time frame. Multi-component sites like that can be very exciting. Good luck!

[docmann]

Sandcreek,
Nice outing. Indeed, I'd be all over that piece of Earth (although it looks like you've done a good job of it).
I recall my very first find (I'm in Western Oklahoma). It's addicting isn't it? Good job, keep up the good work.
docmann

[Charmin]

Ahhh, much better pics! The Hopewell and the Adze / broken knife are both made of Foreacre. The "red" ones are both made of Heated Kay (Florence A). The small one is not Afton, but appears to be a completely used up Haskell dart instead. Kay will often have the fuselinids like the Foreacre, but to a much lesser degree. The uniface blade / scraper is made of raw Florence, along with the other yellowish / tan pieces. The white broken preform is made of Keokuk chert.

Before it gets suggested that your uniface blade is undoubtedly Paleo, I'll go ahead and state that it's more than likely Hopewell, or even later. Hopewell practiced core technology to great degrees and it's especially common out to the western fringes of the distribution (where you are). One of the best Hopewell caches I've seen came from just north of Kaw in Kansas. It contained many knives identical to what you're showing. COMMONLY, they are extremely well made with oblique parallel flaking that would made any Allen knapper jealous. In short, I have seen more Hopewell uniface scrapers out of the area (in datable context) than others. They were made in all time periods by several different cultures, regardless of popular theory.

That's a great variety of points that covers a decently wide time frame. Multi-component sites like that can be very exciting. Good luck!

THANK YOU, Neanderthal, for all that great info! That would be pretty cool to find a "cache" and we are anxiously waiting for rain to wash off this gravel bar! kind regards, sandcreek4

Sandcreek,
Nice outing. Indeed, I'd be all over that piece of Earth (although it looks like you've done a good job of it).
I recall my very first find (I'm in Western Oklahoma). It's addicting isn't it? Good job, keep up the good work.
docmann

Hey docmann, great to see other Oklahomans on this part of the forum! And yes, it is addicting! This wasn't my first find, but it was my first time taking a camera and getting an in-situ. I couldn't hardly wait to pull that thing out of the mud ! Thank you for the kind words and have a great week! sandcreek4

[jamey]

those are very nice finds,the part i like best is you were sharing it with your kids..good job jamey

[Charmin]

those are very nice finds,the part i like best is you were sharing it with your kids..good job jamey

Thank you, Jamey! The kids had a blast and the littlest one picked up that blade she found and said "Oh, what is this?!". I was so proud of her! She's really getting an eye for this stuff. And my oldest one carries the camera and takes pictures for me. She forgets to take pictures of her own stuff, though,. She said she gets too excited! This is a great hobby for families! sandcreek4

[WhiteCountyPaleo]

That first one is a dandy! Ya'll did well and keep looking!
Those piles can produce more than the first go around.

[ShowmeMoflint]

I would have to go back and murder that spot "Violate it"from the looks of it you needs to stay on that before somebody driving down that road ends up breaking a sweetie.

[Charmin]

That first one is a dandy! Ya'll did well and keep looking!
Those piles can produce more than the first go around.

Thanks dollarzero-I've just about talked myself into going back tomorrow ! sandcreek4

I would have to go back and murder that spot "Violate it"from the looks of it you needs to stay on that before somebody driving down that road ends up breaking a sweetie.

That's funny, ShoemeMOflint! Now, how does one go about "violating" a spot? We'll do our best and see if we can find anything else ! I'm just glad the dozer didn't break that Hopewell! Thanks for the comments~~~~~~sandcreek4

[SouthernGirl]

wow very nice