Knapp over grind

[Dirtfan]

This I think was my third find many years ago. I have always liked it because of the colors and the fine flaking. It feels slick to the touch. All the flaking are downward from left to right. A well made heavy duty. Is it knapp over grind? What ya think?

[chong2]

was it found in the desert? might be desert polish?

[Dirtfan]

Fell out of a creek bank after a flood. I used to think it was polished, but the ridges all look sharp under a loop.

[Tnmountains]

Knapp over grind or grind over Knapp. I know they would grind to set up a dull platform on the edge to grab the material to be driven off. What little I know and its not much but I see grinding or dulling also after knapping. I have a couple of microscopes and have been trying to figure this out myself. What I see is sharp areas from the percussion or pressure flaking and then it appears to be ground down. I assume for some type of hafting and usually towards the base. Sometimes it tumble wear or water polish, but that is exhibited all over even to the point of mistakenly looking like a tool. Those breaks appear to be clean off the edges while a pressure flake shows a exact downward/sideways removal.
I wish I also understood this more. Very nice heavy duty.
Great topic for the experts and knappers. The knapping section above has some very talented people in the section above artifacts and understand the principle much better that I. Thirty(8?) also seems to know about this
HH
TnMtns

[lostcauses]

Are you thinking ground to shape and then knapped to sharpen?? Unlike if so.
The removal of flakes is just plain faster, short of a machine to move a grinding wheel.

One could grinding the edge to get a better location to cause a flake.

[Th3rty7]

These are modern points but they're the best examples of the flake-over-grind(assuming that's what you're talking about) technique I can find. It's kind of hard to make out the flaking pattern of that point in detail. Are you sure it's a heavy duty?

http://www.lithiccastinglab.com/gall...opperpage1.htm


Flake over grinding has only been recorded in two areas of the world, large daggers and knives from northern Europe, and Egyptian Gerzean knives.

[Th3rty7]

This " Z-flaked" Dalton is imo as good as it gets as far as ancient North American workmanship and flaking skill goes. This technique has yet to be matched by even todays modern knappers as far as I know.

http://www.lithiccastinglab.com/gall...aryzdalton.htm

[Dirtfan]

Not sure about much of anything. I was reading some of the links posted here about flake over grind and thought it was an old technique. I know it is hard to see the flaking without holding it in your hand. This piece has always puzzled me because of the smooth texture and the micro thin and narrow yet long flaking. I got to thinking it must be early arcaic or older. I have never seen anything like it. Wanted to take to the springdale show but something came up.

[lostcauses]

I can see the curves that show were the long flakes were taken and then the next flaking into that area. But as others have said a photo is not the best way to see..

[Th3rty7]

It's a beauty whatever it is. Awesome piece of material. Heavy duty points are known for their fine archaic pressure flaking, usually parallel or collaterally flaked to a median ridge.

[Dirtfan]

Thanks thirty7 and to all I think you guys are very knowledgeable.

[mainer]

That is a nice piece there. Quality craftsmanship for sure.

[uniface]

Hi Dirt

Very pretty point there. IMO it's a corner-notch with the base broken.

It's got none of the characteristics that distinguish heavy duty points, except for fine workmanship.

An excellent resource on these (and others) is Early Archaic Points and Knives by Robert Edler.

[Dirtfan]

Thanks uniface. My quest for now is is trying to identify some of the unusual pieces in my collection.