Question: Gorgets and Bannerstones - how were they actually worn???

[Flint-seeker]

Curious, how were gorgets actually believed to be worn by the Native Americans? How about the fancy, winged bannerstones we've all seen? Around the neck, as well? There's all types of banded slate found, but how exactly was it worn in ancient times?

I understand gorgets were worn around the neck, but how? Stacked side by side? The location of the holes indicate there were stacked with string or sinew... If 10-15 of these banded slate gorgets were all strung together, has a complete "gorget cache" ever been found? Most people, if lucky enough, tend to find a single (and often broken) one, not a few... Am I incorrect in this assumption?

Forgive me if this isn't the correct forum to post, but does anyone have any images show precisely "how" they have been thought to be worn?

I did an extensive google search and couldn't come up with a single image or depiction of how gorgets were worn on Native Americans...

Thanks in advance...

Shane

[Twitch]

Shane - I think generally they were atl-atl weights and not worn around the body. However I have the same question as you on artifacts classed as pendants. Some have a top hole and obvious hole wear that suggests a suspended vertical used. Pendant makes a lot of sense to me. Many others have a center hole rather than a top hole that seems to me to make it NOT a reasonable design for a pendant. That being said, I can't conceive a different application for that design.

This should be an interesting topic to see what some of the smarter folks on the board think about it.

Joe

[mickey]

in my humble opinion, bannerstones may have been put on some sort of staff possibly showing rank or status or even to possibly identify a particular group. personally i dont think that most of them were used as an atl atl weight. if they wanted a weight for their atl atls, any smoothed, grooved stone would do. there have just been too few bannerstones found in context to say for certain how these stones were used.
the same goes for pendants and gorgets. some pendants do show wear in the holes to indicate that they were worn around the neck. others are drilled near the middle which would not indicate that they were suspended around someones neck. it has been suggested that gorgets were possibly sewn on to the clothing as a possible form of rank. modern armies use gorgets (metal) to indicate rank. you could suggest that gorgets and some pendants could have been used as atl atl weights also, but again i personally believe that they were not.
you might as well throw birdstones into the mix. who knows what they were used for? again some suggest atl atl weights, but a would guess they were used to show rank or status. there have been too few birdstones found in context to make an educated guess. ask any archaeologist what pendants, gorgets, birdstones, etc. were used for and they will all tell you the same thing: "no one is certain", but hopefully future archaeological investigations will shed some more light onto these enigmatic pieces.

[Flint-seeker]

Twitch and Mickey, thank you for your thoughtful responses. It's amazing to me, how much of the Native American history is still a mystery to us all.

I hadn't even considered birdstones, good point! I envision birdstones and other types effigies as small trinkets that were carried around for ceremonies and storytelling reasons, but we still don't know for sure.

But the gorgets, pendants and bannerstones still remain a mystery for the most past? Very interesting.

Anyone else care to chime in on their thoughts or theories?

Shane

[ohioaxeman]

I have always had a hard time believeing the atlatl theory! Some bannerstones may have been used for that, but i dont believe gorgets and pendants would. I've always imagined the winged typed bannerstones being used for fishing like a reel of some sort to wrap string around. They may have been used to wear in the hair of women or even men! I also wonder if pendants and gorgets were used for animals like a tag to identify or something! I really havent had enough of them in my hand to hold onto as long as i need to come up with a reasonable theory! A friend of mine has a Glacial Kame Knobbed gorget he found close to Belluvue Ohio that i borrowed over night and I couldnt set the thing down! Whatever it was used for it had to be important because this one is broke and repaired in ancient times! Very Beautiful piece! I'll try to get a pic from him! I want to hear more about everyones theories, stupid or not! Its possibily the only way we'll ever come close to all the possible uses is by hearing from others, so chime in everybody!

this post is interesting Au-seeker!

[Tnmountains]

Pretty good site. Pictures and evolution of bannerstones.

http://www.arrowheads.com/Bannerstone/BannerStone.pdf

[Flint-seeker]

Pretty good site. Pictures and evolution of bannerstones.

http://www.arrowheads.com/Bannerstone/BannerStone.pdf

Wow! Thanks so much for sharing! That's the most interesting thing I had read about bannerstones, thank you!

[Tnmountains]

Pretty good site. Pictures and evolution of bannerstones.

http://www.arrowheads.com/Bannerstone/BannerStone.pdf

Wow! Thanks so much for sharing! That's the most interesting thing I had read about bannerstones, thank you!

No problem glad to share. Here is another good discussion on paleoplanet about the use of these artifacts. Cordage spool vs atlatl weight.

http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/top...s#.TgTqj81o-xY

[jeff a]

from what i have seen in pics from old graves gorgets were around the wrists, some of the hopewell expanded gorgets have been found with copper bracelets and pieces of cloth preserved by copper salts.i think they must have sewn them on there shirts close to there hands but dont know for what reason

[Flint-seeker]

from what i have seen in pics from old graves gorgets were around the wrists, some of the hopewell expanded gorgets have been found with copper bracelets and pieces of cloth preserved by copper salts.i think they must have sewn them on there shirts close to there hands but dont know for what reason

Wow, can you share the pics on this thread? Like I mentioned, I have never seen an image or depiction of a Native American holding or wearing any of these pendants, gorgets or bannerstones...

Shane

[ohioaxeman]

from what i have seen in pics from old graves gorgets were around the wrists, some of the hopewell expanded gorgets have been found with copper bracelets and pieces of cloth preserved by copper salts.i think they must have sewn them on there shirts close to there hands but dont know for what reason

Wow, can you share the pics on this thread? Like I mentioned, I have never seen an image or depiction of a Native American holding or wearing any of these pendants, gorgets or bannerstones...

Shane

interesting to me also to see them pics!

[jeff a]

give me some time , i will get my books out and find the pics

[tmodel]

thank you in advance Jeff A!!, like many of the others i have not seen any of these photos, and would really like to.. again thank you! Terry

[Tnmountains]

http://tennesseeencyclopedia.net/entry.php?rec=325

Most were worn around the neck as status symbols. I am sure the smaller one could be worn on the wrist? As many WOMEN as men in this period were honored with these type objects and ceremonial items. Here are just some gorgets from a musuem I saw one time.
Hope this helps.

[Hutch in PA]

Great thread...a must read! IMO, to further complicate matters, I believe they recycled broken bannerstones and gorgets into other decorative items like pendants. The pic below received considerable response when I found it a few years ago. I believe the consensus was it was a gorget that broke and was then re-used as a pendant. Three holes! The top shows oblong use wear. And yes, I have looked and looked for the 'other half'. No luck! Yet....

[1320]

Looking at the distribution of bannerstones....none out west?! That puzzles the crap out of me.....

[ohioaxeman]

Looking at the distribution of bannerstones....none out west?! That puzzles the crap out of me.....

Too hot... LOL

[1320]

Looking at the distribution of bannerstones....none out west?! That puzzles the crap out of me.....

Too hot... LOL

LMAO!

[Get-the-point]

Looking at the distribution of bannerstones....none out west?! That puzzles the crap out of me.....

Too hot... LOL

LMAO!

Kind of makes ya think now doesn't it. None out west I have never seen one further than Missouri. Could this be evolution. From herding into kill sites and getting there prey to using a weight known as a atlatl or bannerstone to propel there spears at a greater speed and power. All giving the Indian the power to hunt without herding........I think the evolution of the Banner started after Colorado.........IMO!!!........................... .Makes ya think!!!.........................GTP

[1320]

I'm only guessing but I would think that once the meat supplies began to dwindle, a much stealthier approach to harvest would/should have been likely.