I thought I'd post some photos that may be of interest to some, as there were some thoughts expressed in response to trevmma's recent “old buffalo tooth” post. These finds were made over the past several weeks by my daughter's partner. He has been kayaking the Heart River near Mandan ND and searching areas of “new” bank erosion. The flow through the Heart River has been, and continues to be, extremely high this year. As a results of this, more and more of this stuff is being exposed as levels drop. Our friend larson1951 called me and suggested that I post some of these. trevmma, I doubt whether you can tell from these if yours is a buffalo tooth or not but there are some here.
What we've been told is that the “big” pieces are Bison antiquus," which were common 10,000-20,000 years ago and were part of the "megafauna" of the Ice Age. Paleo-Indians are believed to have hunted them. They were about 15 to 25 percent larger than modern bison and became extinct at the end of the Ice Age, while Bison occidentalis lived on a bit longer. Bison occidentalis, perhaps with some contributions by Bison antiquus, is thought to have evolved into today's modern buffalo.
yes 11KBP, it is not a bison, it is a horse mandible
it articulates from the maxilla (upper jaw) as one piece
i thought no horses were there that long ago but it might have got mixed in with older bones somehow
below is a picture of one with more teeth and different spacing of the front teeth
docman, yes the scapulas were used for garden and digging tools like shovels and hoes
when this was done the two ribs were removed from the back side of the shoulder blade and subsequently handles were fastened to them either one way for a hoe or a different way to make a shovel
one can tell the age of such a tool by examining how the two ribs were removed
the older ones were removed w/a stone knife, the later ones show that they were removed w/a metal blade
it is not hard to tell if a person can see both kinds
also the bottom 5 or six inches was cut off and polished and sharpened and turned into a four sided squash knife to cut squash into thin slices so it could be dried and stored for winter use
squash, corn, great northern beans and tobacco was grown in their huge gardens, they had a lot of food to eat and also trade with others for commodities
i hope this info helps
larson1951
What we've been told is that the “big” pieces are Bison antiquus," which were common 10,000-20,000 years ago and were part of the "megafauna" of the Ice Age. Paleo-Indians are believed to have hunted them. They were about 15 to 25 percent larger than modern bison and became extinct at the end of the Ice Age, while Bison occidentalis lived on a bit longer. Bison occidentalis, perhaps with some contributions by Bison antiquus, is thought to have evolved into today's modern buffalo.
I didn't pay much attention before but after looking at the tape measure for reference there is no doubt about some of these being extinct species. If a couple of those had intact horn cores they would be real show pieces.
I would suggest that your acquaintance keep looking, he could very well get lucky and find an intact skull cap. The intact huge horn cores on those extinct specimens make great companions for a paleo artifact display.
those are awesome, ive got a question some of the experts might be able to answer. how do you tell if the skull is from an extinct species or just a modern buffalo. i found one a few years ago in a creek and was wondering. one of the horn cores is damaged a little it would have measured around 29 inches from tip to tip.
those are awesome, ive got a question some of the experts might be able to answer. how do you tell if the skull is from an extinct species or just a modern buffalo. i found one a few years ago in a creek and was wondering. one of the horn cores is damaged a little it would have measured around 29 inches from tip to tip.
Hammerstone99 if the skull you found actually measured 29" tip to tip then there is a good chance of it being an extinct species.
hey 11kbp and larson , i resurrected an old post for a pic. (see stone tools post) i just measured from tip to tip and it is 25 1l2 inches and with the horn core damage i think it would go over 30. sorry to keep bugging about this but it sounds like you guys know what your talking about and it would be cool to know more.(sorry for all the extra pics but i lost my pics of it.)
sorry to resurrect this post but i needed to show 11kbp and larson a pic of a skull.
Originally Posted by hammerstone99
i resurrected an old post for a pic. (see stone tools post) i just measured from tip to tip and it is 25 1l2 inches and with the horn core damage i think it would go over 30. sorry to keep bugging about this but it sounds like you guys know what your talking about and it would be cool to know more.(sorry for all the extra pics but i lost my pics of it.)
I think you are right hammerstone, without the damage it would be very close to 30". An average tip-to-tip measurement of a mature male bison bison skull is right around 24".
With that in mind you could expect your specimen to predate 5000 years.
I was hoping to maybe help identify and give some examples of how to tell the species of a buffalo skull with these photos. The skulls in the (Sk3.jpg) photos were found yesterday by kayaker (see starting comments). I researched a little about species from different time periods and order of the species. There is a lot of information such as this: From Wikipedia
Bison antiquus, sometimes called the ancient bison, was the most common large herbivore of the North American continent for over ten thousand years, and is a direct ancestor of the living American bison.
During the Pleistocene Ice Age, steppe wisent (Bison priscus), migrated from Siberia into Alaska. This species then developed into the long-horned bison (Bison latifrons) which lived in North America for 3 million years. About 22,000 years ago, the long-horned bison slowly died out making way for Bison antiquus. B. antiquus were abundant from 18,000 ya until about 10,000 ya, when they became extinct, along with most of the Pleistocene megafauna. B. antiquus is the most commonly recovered herbivore from the La Brea tar pits.
B. antiquus was taller, had larger bones and horns and was 15-25% larger overall than modern bison. From tip to tip, the horns of B. antiquus measured approximately 3 feet (nearly one meter).
And there’s also some good information about latifron at this website: https://www.dmr.nd.gov/ndfossil/education/pdf/bison.pdf
I cannot, however seem to be able to find anything that actually describes specific differences. We’ve been told by state historical people that photo (Anc1.jpg) is Bison antiques but to me it doesn’t look like the photo of the from Wikipedia (Bison antiq.jpg).
I tried to show the differences in the skulls that kayaker has been finding. Can someone indentify these? I’m thinking “ancient1” skull is much older than the others because it’s beginning to petrify and the others are not. All I know for sure about this stuff is that it’s old and very cool. It’s an absolute privilege to be able to see it up close (kayaker is also a neighbor of mine). He found something very unusual yesterday, something that we’ll again need help indentifying. I’ll post more of his finds if there’s interest.
t witco didn't mean to highjack your post with all my questions. thanks guys for all the information, really appreciate it, thats cool to know how old it is.
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Originally Posted by T Witko
