figures, i'd find the crude stuff, can anybody help identify?

[bean man]

they're crude, but I found something, can anybody help me identify?
but I believe I found something.
-bean man

[Neanderthal]

Hiya Bean! I have looked at the pictures, but can't make out too awful much detail in them. From what I can see, they look like geofacts to me. I cannot see any signs of human modification on them (it could be just the pics though) that would make them artifacts. It looks like they could possibly be a sandstone, limestone or Ironstone? A geofact is a natural formation that takes on the semblance of being a human modified artifact....mother nature can sure be a fooler! She gets me all of the time!

I don't want to discourage you and I still think they are cool finds. Remember, all I have to go by are small photos, and my eyes aint so keen sometimes..lol.

Matt Rowe

[Cannonman17]

I second that opinion-

[bean man]

thanks for replying, matt and cannonman17. I would tend to agree with you, except for the volume of items found in one small area of a creek and ravine. Some I believe are a geofacts, But some I believe to be warclubs and axeheads from a time period between late woodland and the 1800's.
Here in central Iowa , where this stuff was found, the indians apparently lost their blade technology, possibly from lack of quality knapping materials.
They apparenly fire hardened local mined sandstone and other rock. I need to learn how to do better pictures, I will be sending more pictures. I'm very interested in your opinions. Thanks, bean man.

[Cannonman17]

I know all about heat treating certain types of chert to facilitate concoidal fracturing actually- never heard of heat treating SANDSTONE though- as far as cultures losing their blade technology, Nope, that's a new one, "Blade technologies" as you call them changed a lot but there has never been a case of a culture "losing" the technology because there wasn't any local material, quite frankly this is a rediculous idea and makes you look like...) Where did they lose it? Under their heat treated sandstone?? LOL So if you ask a question and aren't prepared to hear the truth why bother asking? Post some scans of that rock so we can see it better, I want to be sure that it's just a rock. Would like to see the other "war clubs and axe heads" you've found- Now, with that said, ask around, there are several people on here that know a lot about artifacts- see what they say and they will probably tell you the same thing (give us a closer picture but from here it looks like a rock). Also, I have NO DESIRE to turn this into a pi$$ing match...I've worked in the field, have an anthropology degree, and I could give you a long list of things to give my words credibility but... to be honest with you I don't care if you believe me or not. I find some people get hostile if they don't hear what they want and I have a hard time dealing with that.

[Atlantis0077]

Morning Bean Man,

Go to your corners....break clean. Before this goes down hill anymore, let me say that what is said here regarding relics is opinion based on description or photos provided. From the photos you posted it appears those are not relics, but natural geologic happenings. Even crude relics will show signs of chipping...edges, blades, or basic shaping. Perhaps you could provide some photos...close-ups of some other things you have found and we could better make an assessment as to their origins.

We have some very knowledgeable folks in the forum that have seen many different relics and natural geologic rocks if you will. As for cultures losing their technology...granted it tends to change over time, but little is ever lost. Same with lithics....as game changed from ice age forward, points tended to shrink.....also as technology increased from atlatl to bow, needs be that points got smaller and lighter to be shot rather than thrown, but many of the "newer" points are better quality and more finely chipped than older ones.

I look forward to seeing some more photos of what you are finding in your ravine....there might well be some axes there....look more for polished stone items or something with a chipped edge on it. Also steer away from sandstone...if it wont hold up to use now, its doubtful the Indians used it then either.

Happy Hunting

Atlantis

[Cannonman17]

** Cannonman takes his gloves off and climbs out of the ring **

[River Rat]

Well, if I found those sitting in the middle of the fields here, then I would know the Indians had to have put them there. Anything I find "strange" in this swamp land is a keeper to me.

RR