CELT Opinions wanted

[Hill Billy]

A friend of mine picked this up at a yard sale a month or so ago. He said the celt was suppose to have been found in Illinois. He asked me to look at it and tell him what I think. I don't know much about them so I'm asking you. It's a beautiful piece, 5 " long by about 2" wide in the middle, 1- 1/2" thick. Thanks for your help

HB

[worldtalker]

Hill Billy,That is the most Beautiful worked stone I EVER see!!!!!! God Bless Chris

[oxbowbarefoot]

The stone looks to be conglomerate, it must have been a pain to work. Even with modern tools, that would be an amazing piece.

[joshuaream]

If it's authentic that is an extremely valuable celt. That said, there are a lot of fakes made from puddingstone (the common name for conglomerates like that) since it's such a pretty material.

Someone who collects that material can probably tell you where the stone came from, if it's from Mexico or New Zealand that would be pretty condemning as far as authenticity goes.

[Hill Billy]

If it's authentic that is an extremely valuable celt. That said, there are a lot of fakes made from puddingstone (the common name for conglomerates like that) since it's such a pretty material.

Someone who collects that material can probably tell you where the stone came from, if it's from Mexico or New Zealand that would be pretty condemning as far as authenticity goes.

I'm afraid it's a fake, but really I have no clue. My friend paid 50$ for it and wonders if he got burnt?
I told him I would post it here and see what others think. Thanks for your input.

HB

[joshuaream]

If I saw it on eBay I wouldn't look twice, but since he has $50 already in it, it's probably worth the extra $25 to send it to Tom Davis, Bill Jackson or some other well known Authenticator.

Or take it to an artifact show, if it's good he'll be swamped with offers.

[wells]

looking at the bit i'd say a good chance of being real. most modern made celts would have a nice sharp looking edge - like ones i've made - the material isn't suspect . As far as value if you find out it's fake i'd easily give you a huderd bucks for it. authentic or not it is beautiful .

[catherine1]

Because of the rarity of this celt material, and without much history. Along with the small purchase price/yard sale. I hope it s real pudding!! Nice rock!!

[Get-the-point]

That is a beautiful Celt. In my opinion though it is modern made with a artificial patina. The bit although looking right for a worn bit, shows no striation marks from usage. All of the celts that i have found and acquired showed some sort of usage marks. Little scratches to the surface or larger ones from usage. The face of the first picture i posted show possible mineralization, but without magnification I cannot be sure. I have it circled where the possible iron mineral spots are. They show no staining around them though which is a bad sign as well. The other picture I circled the bit and showed how there is no usage wear on this piece at all. You can see it in the picture. The other circled spot around the chert looking material shows possible fresh crushings in the material. All the pores in the celt have no signs of debris or mineralization another bad sign. Those crevices in the other material have no debris as well. There would be no matter how much you cleaned it some sort of debris or staining from being in the soil hundreds to thousands of years. I do not see any in the photo's. The one picture shows the possibility of it being real and the other shows all the evidence you need to know it is not real. This artifact was made knowing the price it could possibly get to fool the collector. This is my opinion and i still would send it out regardless for peace of mind.........................................GTP

[tmodel]

Tree!! would your acid get a arrowhead, knife or celt this clean?? Terry

[The Grim Reaper]

A Hopewell Flared Bit Celt made from Pudding Stone for $50?

Either you buddy got the deal of the century or it's a modern piece. I'd say more than likely a modern piece. Like Joshua said, if that is real he has a very valuable and very rare artifact.

[Hill Billy]

That is a beautiful Celt. In my opinion though it is modern made with a artificial patina. The bit although looking right for a worn bit, shows no striation marks from usage. All of the celts that i have found and acquired showed some sort of usage marks. Little scratches to the surface or larger ones from usage. The face of the first picture i posted show possible mineralization, but without magnification I cannot be sure. I have it circled where the possible iron mineral spots are. They show no staining around them though which is a bad sign as well. The other picture I circled the bit and showed how there is no usage wear on this piece at all. You can see it in the picture. The other circled spot around the chert looking material shows possible fresh crushings in the material. All the pores in the celt have no signs of debris or mineralization another bad sign. Those crevices in the other material have no debris as well. There would be no matter how much you cleaned it some sort of debris or staining from being in the soil hundreds to thousands of years. I do not see any in the photo's. The one picture shows the possibility of it being real and the other shows all the evidence you need to know it is not real. This artifact was made knowing the price it could possibly get to fool the collector. This is my opinion and i still would send it out regardless for peace of mind.........................................GTP

GTP thanks for the info. As I stated earlier, I have a hard time with this being authentic, but I don't know much about hardstone relics. My friend bought it because he liked it ,and if it turns out to be a modern repro, oh well, he still has a nice looking celt. His story to me was he bought it from an older couple and the man said he found it in N Illinois . Thanks for your opinion and I'm sure he will have it authenticated after reading this post.

HB

[Hill Billy]

A Hopewell Flared Bit Celt made from Pudding Stone for $50?

Either you buddy got the deal of the century or it's a modern piece. I'd say more than likely a modern piece. Like Joshua said, if that is real he has a very valuable and very rare artifact.

We will see, I will post the results here when he finds out

[WhiteCountyPaleo]

The only thing I was ever told about this material is that nothing made
out of it is real. I couldn't say one way or the other. To me it looks like
working cement with grave rocks. All I can think about is pecking this
stuff and having it breaking due to the differences in densities.

[Treefrog]

Terry, yea acid would clean it right up, that is a cool looking celt but I am not a good judge on them, all the points I have and never found a hardstone point yet.

[tmodel]

thanks Tree!! just wanted to make sure that Hill!! knew that there was a way to ciean them that good. i know not celts and am not saying old artifact or new art piece just a way to realy clean artifacts. Terry

[Hill Billy]

As I said above, I believe it's a modern repro. Thank you all for your opinions, I'm going to give it back to the buyer and print everyones replies here so he can read your opinions for himself. He may not want to send it off for authentication after reading all of this. He was aweful excited when he bought it.

[tmodel]

i would not blame him it is a beautfull piece with out papers. wish i could afford to bid on it like the one that offered 100 dollars for it eather way. Terry