Help with point ID please?

[flintmel]

Found this recently, base and lower sides show grinding but having hard time with ID

Fox creek points are generally flaked randomly, don't believe this is flaked in that manner

 

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[Broken knee]

It looks like a lovell constricted? The lovell is on the line late paleo early archaic. I'm no expert jmo it looks more like a lovell than a hell gap.
Broken knee

 

[bsit1361]

Found this recently, base and lower sides show grinding but having hard time with ID

Looks to me to be a orient fishtail. jmo though nice piece

 

[tmodel]

Mel!! that sure looks like a [hell gap] 10900-9000 bp to me. Terry

 

[flintmel]

Mel!! that sure looks like a [hell gap] 10900-9000 bp to me. Terry

Thanks Terry, am pretty sure its paleo, found it in NY near its material souce.

 

[wells]

What is the material? Looks like Rhyolite maybe from the pic. For NY area some other possibilities to check out are - Foxcreek, Stubenville. Itsure does have a Paleo look, resembles Shawnee or Simpson, but they are found in Florida - Georgia area.

 

[flintmel]

What is the material? Looks like Rhyolite maybe from the pic. For NY area some other possibilities to check out are - Foxcreek, Stubenville. Itsure does have a Paleo look, resembles Shawnee or Simpson, but they are found in Florida - Georgia area.

Coxsackie flint

 

[wells]

OO thats nice flint. We find a few stray pieces of that here in central Pa. most commonly in paleo form artifacts. I've been huntin for 35 years and only have one piece of coxsackie flint and that is a very nice paleo endscapper.

 

[Charl]

JMHO opinion, but the point most closely resembles a Fox Creek Stemmed, which dates Early-Middle Woodland. These points were once called Stubenville points and were regarded as paleo until they were finally excavated in context and found to date to Woodland times. I can see fishtail as well, but the hafting area is classic Fox Creek Stemmed. Here are some examples of Fox Creek Stemmed, courtesy of "New York Projectile points", by William Ritchie.



It could still be in the Late Paleo lance cluster, though. The style of flaking may be the key.

 

[flintmel]

I don't know charl, the point was extremely well chipped and the lower edges ground, the basal ears appear to have slightly flared out, none really a trait of the fox creek

 

[Get-the-point]

Mel it is a Fox Creek. Very common in our area. most are found however broke due to material used. Mine are mostly found in argillite. Here area couple of mine.......

 

[Charl]

I don't know charl, the point was extremely well chipped and the lower edges ground, the basal ears appear to have slightly flared out, none really a trait of the fox creek

Mel, I don't dismiss your opinion at all. Looks enough like an eastern stemmed lanceolate to certainly be possible. Early flaking, context of find can certainly make a differance. I was just going with the path of least resistance because, as GTP points out Fox Creeks are more common in this region. Regarding Fox Creeks, the 91 MAS typology says "Delicate basal ears appear in many specimens." Here are a few more. Last one looks like it has one tiny ear, and it has light grinding. Yours is a nice piece regardless of its' age.

 

[bigrush828]

Found this recently, base and lower sides show grinding but having hard time with ID

Looks like a Hell's Gap point type to me...

 

[flintmel]

I'll submit another photo and try to get a better detail of the chipping.....

 

[flintmel]

better pics

Heres a few more pics

 

[Ohio_Doug]

I'm no expert but that looks very much paleo to me.

 

[Get-the-point]

Looks like a Hell's Gap point type to me...

Here is a true Hell Gap this is on Ebay right now and bears a Ben Stermer COA. Now I know they have found examples that would be closely related to FoxCreek. Hell Gaps though would be resharpened several times to almost look like a FoxCreek. Then there is a Coldwater point which looks like a Simpson. The Coldwater is pictured after the Hell Gap. They are all extremely similar in design and make, except for the Hell Gap. Now is there any direct relation to these points but being from different sections of the country. I'd have to say yes. There are to too many similarities between certain types. Flintmel your point being on eastcoast has been typed a FoxCreek and if you notice Charls photo you have identically designed points. As Is mine however crude. As you can tell it is not Hell Gap and it is not a Coldwater although it is real close to design except for the paleo flaking on the Coldwater....................Hope this helps..........................GTP(Chris)