Seymour, AZ rr stop

[azmetaldetector]

I see on an old 1866 AZ RR map there is a station called Seymour. Is in Maricopa county and appears to be on the say to Wickenburg, but I can't find any more information about it. I'm trying to find out where it might have been for MD reasons. Would love to find it.

 

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[EdleBrock]

I've only been a member here for a short time but have noticed your posts. In the past I have done a little research on AZ history, some gold panning, hiking ect. From what I can tell, Seymore AZ was/is located in T06N, R04W which is South East of Wikenburg. I don't think you can get to it via driving, but rather a hike through the Hassayampa.

If you go up in that area be sure to check out the Vulture mine, last time I was there was about 92 and they had a self guided tour you could take of the mine. Pretty interesting. Also, hike the Vulture peak great views.

Somewhere I have an old map of the area marking mines and believe it or not graves...

Hope this helps.

Jim

I just realize, the Township/Range info gets you withing 36 square miles...not very helpful, I'm not sure which Section it is in...but if it's along the RR it souldn't be that difficult to locate...

Are you sure of the 1866 date on the map ? Was it just a private mining RR, because I'm not sure the big RRs made it out here that early...

 

[azmetaldetector]

Here is the map I found it in....look at section C-5. Directly east of VUlture on the Hassayampa.

http://www.menotomymaps.com/map_img.asp?p=map_fdbdown.asp?188&mak=1886_Arizona_rail_map

 

[EdleBrock]

That's a great map. 1886 makes more sense for the RR reference. On your map the East/West numbers that run through Phoenix are the Range numbers, the North/South are the Township...so T6N R4W would be the right area.

I just checked google maps and it appears that there are quite a few roads in the area now...houses ATV trails ect.

I'm not sure if the "Vulture" on your map is a different place than the Vulture Mine...maybe there was a small town called "Vulture" in the same area ? You can find the Vulture Mine on google maps,then scroll straight East to the Hassayumpa.

The Sharlot Hall museum in Prescott is a great resource for historical maps of AZ.

http://www.sharlot.org/archives/maps/

When I was doing this in the early 90's the public library had several historical books about Arizona, I was more interested in the Bradshaw area at the time.
The Glendale library had quite a collection.

You might know all this already...

regards,

Jim

 

[azmetaldetector]

After doing a little more research on the internet, it's a ghost town and probably not a RR stop. I'd like to get the long. and lat. and see if I can find it that way...

 

[Wizzard]

From an 1887 RR map I have, it appears that Seymour is about 10 miles SSW of Wickenburg - around the area where present day Morristown is. Take a peak at the inclosed cut-out from my map.



Direct link to a larger picture: http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/6205/seymouraztl7.jpg

 

[azmetaldetector]

John,
Are you up for going to look for it with me? I have a little more information than what's posted here that might help

 

[Wizzard]

Sure am Scott - time permitting.

 

[EdleBrock]

azmetaldetector,

On that link you provided for your map, there's also maps for 1912 Mining Districts.

http://menotomymaps.com/map_img.asp?p=map_fdbdown.asp?106&mak=1912_Arizona_mining_district

Here's a snap showing the location of Seymour...Probably not much help, just another point of reference...38 is Vulture, 39 is Wikenburg.

Obviously this map did not pay much attention to the location of the RR, I don't believe Seymour was on the East side of the tracks.

Jim

 

[Wizzard]

Couple of tidbits I've found concerning Seymour:

1. James Seymour purchased the mine (Vulture Mine) in 1878, despite popular senitment that the veins had played out. ...... Seymour added a stamp mill along the Hassayampa River, about 12 miles from the mine, (Vulture Mine). ... Then in 1880, the mill was dismantled, moved to Vulture to firnish parts for a new mill, and the towm of Seymour died.

2. Maricopa county, Arizona: 1. Ghost Town: Brill on RR, 7 ½ miles NW Morristown. 2. A strontium deposit can be found in section 26, 15 miles SE of Aquila. 3. GT Seymour 10 miles from the Vulture Mine. The mill town had only one street that housed 300 residents and dozens of stores and businesses. 4. The Valenzuela outlaw gang buried $25,000 in gold bars in the area of Whittman. It has never been recovered.

Here's a very interesting link (IMHO) Arizona Ghost Towns from the Metal Detecting Forums @ Treasure Quest.

 

[EdleBrock]

az and John,

Here's a shot of a RR map (Arizona 1887) from the Library of Congress at this link:

http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/h?ammem/gmd:@field(NUMBER+@band(g4330+rr001820))

It shows Seymour right on the tracks South East of Wickenburg and North/North West of a place called Smiths Mill.

The second picture is of an Altas from 1881 that shows Smiths Mill and a place called Lambley (sp ?) to the North/North West in about the same relationship as where Seymour is located in the above picture...the Atlas came from this link:

http://alabamamaps.ua.edu/historicalmaps/us_states/arizona/index.html

Just more data to digest.

BTW: both of these maps from the late 1800's show the locations as being East of the Hassayumpa...

az, did you ever make it out to that area ?

regards,

Jim

 

[Wizzard]

I've been reading up on the Walnut Creek Dam break in the 1890's that wiped out the settlements of Seymour and Smith's Mill. 100+ (dependng on the article you read), people were killed in the flooding that occured.

I can see the settlement being on the East side of the Hassayampa but not the stamp mill. Doesn't make sense to my that they'd bring the ore across the river bed to process. Too sandy ....

Here's a link to one article I read: THE WALNUT GROVE DAM DISASTER

Two hours after the dam broke, a wall of water forty feet high, crashed through Wickenburg. Twelve miles downstream, the waters erased the little town of Seymour. Not far past Seymour, the flood lost its great height, but none of its force.

Gonna have to get off my lazy butt and explore the area I guess.

 

[EdleBrock]

>> Doesn't make sense to my that they'd bring the ore across the river bed to process. Too sandy ....

I agree with that idea, the West side was where I was first concentrating. If you search on Smiths Mill there's a short note about the owner selling out and the stamp moving 3 miles (down ? the Hassayampa). I'll see if I can find the reference again....

Here it is...from the following site...I cant vouch for the veracity of the information on this site though...

http://www.ghosttowns.com/states/az/smithsmill.html

P.W. "Bill" Smith erected a ten stamp mill, after the failure of the Vulture mill in 1873, to serve the Vulture Mine. It operated for five years and a small settlement of about a hundred people lived around and worked in the mill. Mr. Smith had had enough after five years and the operation was sold and moved three more miles down the Hassayampa river to Seymour. Today there is nothing but tailings left

There is an amazing amount of information online about the Walnut Grove Water Storage Company, and the resulting flood that wiped out Seymour.

When az first brought up this thread I snooped around a bit on google maps and found this spot on the West side. Interesting...looks like the land has been worked quite a bit, maybe foundations etc ? I don't think it's a cattle pen since it's on top of small hills...anyway, just another avenue to search on.

33.847331, -112.669891


regards,

Jim

 

[EdleBrock]

Another update.

The place I referenced as "Lambley" in the 1881 atlas above is actually spelled "Lambey" in this 1884 atlas.

Also, note the reference to the Seymour P.O. on the East side of the Hassayumpa.

It's getting closer...The coordinates in the last post probably are not a good candidate...

regards,

Jim

From: Chicago: Rand McNally and Co., 1884; from Rand McNally Indexed Atlas of the World Date: 1884

http://alabamamaps.ua.edu/historicalmaps/us_states/arizona/index.html

 

[EdleBrock]

Here's another atlas from 1893:

From: Chicago: Benedict and Company, 1893; from their Popular Atlas Date: 1893

http://alabamamaps.ua.edu/historicalmaps/us_states/arizona/index.html

This shows both Seymour and Smiths Mills, with Seymour being on the East side of the river and North of Smiths...

 

[EdleBrock]

Here's another from 1902 (after the flood), the same link as above...has the general area of Seymour or Smiths Mill labeled as "Vulture"

The second picture is another from 1902 that has that same area labeled as "Vulture Sta" Station ?

I don't believe there ever was a Vulture Station, but can verify that with a friend of mine. Regardless, it looks like all the maps point towards the town Seymour being on the East side of the river, close to the tracks, this would make sense, since there were upwards of 300 people living there and eventually a P.O..

Now, the actual stamp mill probably would have been located near the water source and I believe I read where P.W. Smith (Smiths Mill) located a well in the area to support his mill...

This is turining into an amazing historical lesson. P.W. Smith was involved in all sorts of operations in the area, Tucson etc...and was actually part of Wickenburg's group that prospected up around Congress eventually locating Rich Hill...sorry for the tangent.

Here's the clips from the atlas's both dating to 1902.

 

[LadyDigger]

Here's a link you might find interesting...still searching for more data...

http://www.arizona-leisure.com/wickenburg-arizona.html

1880 Arizona Census for Maricopa County...

Gila Bend & Aqua Caliente
Mcmillanville
Mesa City
Mesa City and Tempe
Northern Portion Maricopa County
NOT STATED
Phoenix
Richmond Basin
Richmond Basin Mining Camp
Seymour
Seymour & Northern Portion of Maricopa County
Tempe
Upper Salt River
Utahville
Vulture Mine
Vulture Mine, Wickenburg & Seymour
Wheatfield
Wickenburg
Wickenburg & Seymour
Wickenburg & Aqua Fred
Wickenburg & Vulture Mine

I find no listing for Lambly, Lambley, Lambey, Lamby...unless NOT STATED is that town...

When I click on NOT STATED, I get:
District 16 (District No. 16)
District 20 (McMillen)

Could District 16 be Lambly, Lambley, Lambey, Lamby

The 1870 Census shows Vulture, Vulture Mine, Walnut Grove, Wickenburg all in Yavapai County (Arizona Territory).

 

[EdleBrock]

Thanks Annmarie,

I am starting to believe these old atlas's are not accurate, 1902 may mean nothing as far as this area of the state. John might have hit the nail on the head with his first post about Morristown.

Here's a note from Arizona Place Names page 188:

Morristown

Elevation 1719 Location: Maricopa

The first name for the present day community of Morristown was Vulture Siding, but in 1897 after the importance of Vulture Mine (q.v.) had faded, the name of the place changed to Hot Springs Junction because at this station passengers disembarked from the train to take a stage to Castle Hot Springs. The name was later changed to Morristown to honor the first inhabitant at the place, George Morris, the discoverer of the Mack Morris Mine in Gila County.

Post Office established December 30, 1897, Lee H. Landis, postmaster, Wells Fargo Station, 1903, (Hot Springs Junction).

Reference: Barnes; Arizona Journal Mining, November 4, 1897, 4:2; 16, p. 356; P.O. Records, Maps: C-9, C-12 (Hot Springs Junction)

I think the "Vulture Sta" noted on the 1902 atlas above is actually "Vulture Siding" referenced here, which is actually present day Morristown...

The location of Seymour is still unknown...but I'm conviced it's on the East side of the Hassayumpa, with the stamp mill close to a water source. I believe after the flood, any tailings from the Seymour mill are gone, but have read reference to the tailings from Smith's Mill still being there in some fashion...

The above came from the following link...which by the way unfolds an amazing amount of history of that area also...

http://www.gfwc-morristown.org/Morristown_Area_History.html

Just more info I guess...I probably could all be solved with one phone call to a local resident.

regards,

Jim

 

[Wizzard]

Jim,

Scott ,(azmetaldetector), and I both kinda thought the area you found is the place as well. Using Google Earth and overlaying a topo map shows a mine at that spot. Enclosed is a link to a full size picture of that spot showing the typical "X" . The pic shows Gates Road crossing the Hassayampa River - If one follows the road, it will take one to the Vulture Mine area.

This is turning into a great topic to research !!!!

I grew up in the Wickenburg/Morristown area in the 60's - actually 5 miles South of Wickenburg. My parents lived one mile south of Morristown until their passing this year. My Dad was a well driller for over 30 years in the area ... wish I'd paid more attention to the 'stories' he told of the area!

I really need to try and renew contact with a couple of guys I went to High School with who still live in the area ...

Click on the map to a view larger image or two.



More afer the holidays.

 

[Wizzard]

SUCCESS !

Finally found a 'modern' map reference to Smith's Mill (site) that adds a bit more creedance to the spot we think is where the Seymour mill was. The Smith's Mill site is 2.83 miles SSW, which according to the articles I've read, is where it should be!

Very interesting .....

Here's a link to a Google Earh map with topo overlay of the Smith's Mill spot: