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Thread: Location of Aztec Gold

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  1. #16
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    11,055
    2100 times

    Re: Location of Aztec Gold

    Fascinating Roblowaz: Keep talking my friend.

    Don Jose de La Mancha
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  2. #17
    us
    Oct 2007
    Pascagoula Ms.
    minelab exp.
    2,130
    33 times

    Re: Location of Aztec Gold

    I would look into the Panuco river & rio del Norte!This will get ya close
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  3. #18
    us
    Oct 2007
    Pascagoula Ms.
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    Re: Location of Aztec Gold

    Mutezumas tomb was in a salt lagoon = Lago salso ....The other part of the lagoon was lago dolce = Casas lagoon.Was given to Bartolome las casas
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  4. #19

    Apr 2003
    Alberta
    Various Minelabs(5000, 2100, X-Terra 705), Falcon MD20, and the Tesoro Sand Shark for sniping underwater on cleaned bedrock.
    3,328
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    Metal detecting for gold and Surface Suction Sluicing, AKA Triple-S mining.

    Re: Location of Aztec Gold

    Interesting read. Thanks!

    All the best,

    Lanny
    Nothin' quite as fun as chasin' sassy gold! http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/me...mysteries.html

  5. #20
    us
    Oct 2007
    Pascagoula Ms.
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    Re: Location of Aztec Gold

    How the Indians got the gold......
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  6. #21
    us
    Jun 2007
    Simi Valley California
    437
    1 times

    Re: Location of Aztec Gold

    That last picture of the indians method of getting gold from the stream is very interesting.....

  7. #22
    mx
    May 2010
    636
    98 times

    Re: Location of Aztec Gold

    I forget which source it was in, nor am I going to bother to look it up. The ideas here have lives of their own, so nothing changes folks opinion, though those opinions are usually based on: nothing but hopes.

    But it has been recorded in the history that in the Mixteca region, the region south of Izucar de Matamoros comes to my memory, there was indeed soil of a certain color with gold grains in it, and there was a lot of work done to separate it out. So, there were sources of gold in Mexico in the days of the Aztecs.

    I don't really mind what anyone thinks. My friends here have some really good laughs at the ideas many have. The funniest is the Aztecs when fighting for their lives stopped and sent large quantities of jewels and gold hundreds and hundreds of miles into the USA region, while ignoring zillions of good hiding places within a two day walk for strong slaves.

    The other belief that Aztecs were from Israel, has been disproven by y-marker DNA testing. Cross it off your wish list.

  8. #23
    us
    Oct 2007
    Pascagoula Ms.
    minelab exp.
    2,130
    33 times

    Re: Location of Aztec Gold

    This is the only proof you have from the maps & pics from the 16th century, from guys who were on the journey also ....
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  9. #24
    um
    Nemo me impune lacesset

    Jan 2005
    DAKOTA TERRITORY
    Tesoro Lobo Supertraq, (95%) Garrett Scorpion (5%)
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    Re: Location of Aztec Gold

    Interesting discussion.

    I don't propose that Montezuma's treasure is hidden in Arizona or Texas, however I do think there is something at the root of the legends that claim a great Aztec treasure was concealed in what is now the American southwest. Most legends have some basis in fact. The amount of gold and silver seen by the Spanish conquistadors on their first visit to Tenochtitlan was considerably more than they obtained later on the conquest of same. The city was sealed off in the siege which would have precluded any attempt to evacuate such treasure after the moment all routes were closed, but for some time the city was not under siege while Cortez was rebuilding his army and a special flotilla of gunboats to use on the lake. A fair amount of treasure was lost in the canals during the retreat from the city by Cortez too.

    Transport of a large amount of treasure would have been only one problem, and as has been pointed out there are numerous good places for concealment within Aztec territory, without any need to trek 1000 miles north into the territory of non-Aztecs. I don't think the stories we have of Aztec treasures in the US southwest really relate to Montezuma and the fall of the Aztec empire.

    That said, there were two rich and powerful civilizations in the US southwest, namely the Hohokam and Anasazi, both of which survived almost into post-Columbian times. Local Indian legends suggest a connection with the Aztecs. Where did the legends of Aztec treasures in the southwest originate? Are they simply cooked up complete fantasy, or could it be that they are based on some kind of real events, which may have had no association with the Aztecs or Mexicas, this ID being a result of Euro tacking that on? There are quite a few landmarks, ruins etc that today have names related to Montezuma and the Aztecs, when in fact they have nothing to do with them, just that early explorers were familiar with the Aztecs and simply put those quite erroneous names onto the landmarks. I think it is quite possible that there is some kind of truth behind the legends of Aztec/Montezuma treasure hidden in the southwest USA, which in reality has nothing or very little to do with anything Aztec, just that the familiarity of all things Aztec led to those names being wrongly associated.

    It is also possible that the name Montezuma may be correct in association, and still have little or nothing to do with Aztecs; the name is not that rare, and it is easy to see how an early explorer or treasure hunter, hearing the story told and a name they recognize or is very similar to Montezuma, then proceed to make Aztec affiliations which were not present in the original story. There are some parallels with other famous names, like Alexander the great for instance has a great many legends attached to his name in central Asia, and some of these legends can be identified with other, later Greek conquerors and generals but over time the more famous name replaced the original.

    Please do continue, very interesting so far.
    Oroblanco

    TNglen likes this.
    SUPPORT THE BEEF INDUSTRY - EAT BEEF
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  10. #25
    mx
    May 2010
    636
    98 times

    Re: Location of Aztec Gold

    Good posting, Oroblanco, and makes so much more sense than the beleaguered Aztecs sending a major expedition more than a thousand miles at that time. Good job.

    A reminder, though, that the name Montezuma is totally American. The Emperors, who were of the surname Moctezuma, did not use Montezuma. The current Mexican spelling is Moctezuma, and before that, they used something like Mocteuczoma, and before that, well, I can't remember, I think it even had an 'h' in it. But, it was never anything like Montezuma.

    So, the name Montezuma would never have been used in the ancient days of the Aztecs in any case. This is one of those oxymoron thingies.

    Just in our local church records, the name was totally different in the early days. Our church records start around 1609, though there were only a handful. In 1620, the records, such as marriage; baptism; and deaths were entered in large quantities.

    By 1660, the priests started forcing people to take Spanish surnames. The Moctezumas were one exception, because they were very powerful people, even the branch living out here. No one screwed with their family name.

  11. #26
    um
    Nemo me impune lacesset

    Jan 2005
    DAKOTA TERRITORY
    Tesoro Lobo Supertraq, (95%) Garrett Scorpion (5%)
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    Re: Location of Aztec Gold


    That is interesting (the tunnels) and who can say for sure where there may be un-discovered tunnels? Remember for many years, the academics insisted there could not be any passages inside of any American pyramids, and now several have been found. Who knows what will be discovered tomorrow?
    As to the spelling of Montezuma, the early Nahuatl spelling seems to have been
    Motecuhzoma
    Cortez spelled it
    Muteczuma
    <from his second letter to the king of Spain, in which he first provided the name of the Aztec sovereign>
    This is fairly different from the common spelling found in Mexico today Moctezuma in which the T and C have swapped ordinal positions in the name so is about as erroneous as Montezuma, however I will cite as my authority Bernal de Castillo, of our primary sources for the history of the conquest of Mexico, who spelled it
    Montezuma
    <available online at http://www.antorcha.net/biblioteca_v...bernal/36.html
    and in deference to the legends of "Montezumas treasures" as well as the Marine Corps song "Halls of Montezuma" I will stick to the common usage spelling for most Americans and I am comfortable with the habit. No offense to our neighbors to the south intended. We don't have any legends titled "Moctezumas treasure" at least not that I have seen yet. Just think of me as another silly fuddy-duddy type of American resistant to learning new ways.

    I do think that if anyone has (or had) direct knowledge of any treasure(s) which Motecuhzoma may have still possessed at his death, it would be his family relatives. I would like to see some research into a possible different origin to the Montezuma legends we see associated with Arizona, Utah, New Mexico and Texas though; could there have been such an incident in which a powerful Amerindian ruler of a relatively advanced (compared to the near stone-age technology of many non-agrarian tribes) state, have marched into any (or all) of these areas to conceal a tomb of a king or a treasure, perhaps to keep it out of the hands of advancing Aztec or Olmec or Toltec conquerors rather than Spanish? Or a state verging on collapse due to severe droughts, epidemics, or attacks of barbarian neighbors, etc? Several such possibilities are available, if we don't start from the assumption that the legend MUST relate to Moctezuma of the Aztecs which the evidence and logic won't support.

    Please do continue, didn't mean to derail the topic.
    Oroblanco

    SUPPORT THE BEEF INDUSTRY - EAT BEEF
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  12. #27
    ca
    May 2007
    1,758
    607 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: Location of Aztec Gold

    The earliest spelling which I have encountered as well is "Motecuhzoma",which also can be found in the book authored by Miguel León-Portilla,"The Broken Spears".
    This spelling dates back to the conquest...or at least 1521.
    Likely the spelling...with an "h"... of which you speak,piegrande.

    Regards:SH.
    Hell,you ain't never too old to look!

  13. #28
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    11,055
    2100 times

    Re: Location of Aztec Gold

    Hio: it was posted --> The other belief that Aztecs were from Israel, has been disproven by y-marker DNA testing. Cross it off your wish list
    *******************
    Never , never, hehehehhe

    Don Jose de La Mancha
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  14. #29
    us
    Jan 2008
    Black Hills of South Dakota
    Tesoro Lobo & Garrett Stinger
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    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: Location of Aztec Gold



    You'd think that Castillo would know, considering he traveled with him.

    Beth
    "Irony is the rule"

  15. #30
    Charter Member

    Dec 2005
    Arizona
    5,734
    959 times

    Re: Location of Aztec Gold

    Roy,

    I would go with Diaz as well, but as has been mentioned, Cortez also spelled it Montezuma in his letters to the King.
    "The Broken Spears" is also a favorite of mine, and Miguel Leon-Portilla spells it "Motecuhzoma" for both I & II. My
    guess would be that the Spaniards spelled the name phonetically.

    That would seem to give the edge to the speakers of the Nahuatl language. The name used in "Cave, City and Eagle's
    Nest", is "Motecuhzoma". When you read the credentials of the many people involved in that research, it lends some
    credence to the use of that name.

    In "The Discovery And Conquest Of Mexico....", there is: "note on Spelling, etc." which states: "In the Translation a purely
    arbitrary course has been adopted, but it is one which will probably prove more acceptable to the general reader. Such words
    as Montezuma (Motecuhzoma) and Huichilobos (Huitzilopoctli) are spelt as Bernal Diaz usually spells them.......". It would seem
    the names have been corrected in parenthesis.

    Don't see how it matters much for people looking for the alleged lost treasure.

    Take care,

    Joe

 

 
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