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  1. #21
    mx
    May 2010
    539
    67 times

    Re: Mexican Legends on the Treasure of Moctezuma

    >>Big foot knows what I mean.


    Absolutely I do. Locals have commented how well I have adapted. One day I said flippantly to my Mexican wife of 35 years, "I am more Mexican than you are." I thought she would be angry, because that is a pretty brazen thing to say. But, she actually agreed with me. My weak link is my Spanish will never approach perfection.

    >>big foot, you posted -->Life is more work and less comfort here, and I do feel much more like a man. My testosterone level is clearly way up at an age where it is more likely to be nonexistent
    **************

    >>By a curious coincidence I am the same, unfortunately my running ability has decreased, so they can now outrun me. However, some day one will stumble ------!

    I wasn't going to get into that, because especially American women get pretty upset. One of the hardest things for me to learn is that there are young women here who are interested in someone my age. That would never happen in the States. I am not talking the gold-diggers (Oops, bad choice of words on this URL ) and opportunists who came around when I first moved here. This is the second wave, young women who know me as a person and are interested in me, I believe mostly because I treat women with respect and they are not used to that.

    I made the decision 35 years ago to be faithful to my wife, and so I am. One trick I use is to pretend I don't understand their Spanish. Then, I go home and have hot flashes for a week...

    I don't want you to think I am inundated with offers. Twice in the last 2 years, but I am not a hunk and that is the same as total of my first 65 years of life in the US. And, at my age, an attractive 21 year old is incredibly attractive.

    Sorry to lead this thread off-topic. It was not my intention. I need to get those pictures processed, and posted. I spent today in Puebla renewing my FM-3 rentista for another year. They have changed the system completely, and the application all happens online, then you print out the pdf file their computer generates and take it to the office.

    If we have PM's here, I am not sure, and someone is approaching renewal feel free to PM me for info on the new system. I am very sleepy now. Will try to post those pictures tomorrow.


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  3. #22
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    10,203
    834 times

    Re: Mexican Legends on the Treasure of Moctezuma

    some hiker: you posted --> And when you finally catch one?
    It's probably time for a nap....
    Us old guys got priorities,ya know
    ********************

    I hope that you notice that I am pointedly ignoring you, I won't lower myself to answer that , I refuse to get into a -- . further more ------ . I'll have you know that --- . well maybe you are correct a teeny bit, but I won't admit it, however, mi Tiger has a typical Latina temperament, very violently jealous. But she is calming down, She hasn't even come close with a coffee cup lately.

    Anyways, I have had her since 1958, so I guess that I will keep her, since she has me well trained .

    Don Jose de La Mancha

    p.s. Now about that nap, do you ----------
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  4. #23
    mx
    May 2010
    539
    67 times

    Re: Mexican Legends on the Treasure of Moctezuma

    The photo above which shows one side of the house, full length, does not show the main entrance of the house, which is near the far end. This photo shows it from the left in the photo above. The inner arch is visible among the plants. My wife's room as a child was at the right, with the door before the arch.

    The earthquakes have taken down the roof of that room, and her aunt was badly hurt, spent six months in the Mexico City hospital, walked badly until her death.

    The house was a rectangle originally. Even by the late 40's, much of the rectangle was gone. Now there is only one side, picture in posting above, and a little bit at the end where the kitchen was.

    There was a good spring that never failed until a few years ago when truck farmers started drilling wells to water great acreages. That spring made the house safe because they could withstand a major siege.

    The inside of the house now has banana; lemon; and other trees beside the canal running from the spring.
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  5. #24
    mx
    May 2010
    539
    67 times

    Re: Mexican Legends on the Treasure of Moctezuma

    When you walk in the entrance, hoping as you walk under that old arch that no earthquake happens at that exact moment, then turn a half left, you can see what is left of the old kitchen.

    The kitchen when my wife was a girl, still had a canal from the spring running through it, and when the women wanted water, they just scooped it out of the canal on the floor. Now the kitchen is mostly used for the men to take a rare bath.

    I happened to be here in 1999, when the earthquake did major damage to the back of the kitchen, the side you cannot see.

    In this photo, the pile of rocks, I piled there. That 1999 earthquake took down part of the wall. In that wall was one of those big old doors, with the big nails, like you see on cathedrals in the cities of Mexico.

    When we build our house, my wife's uncle gave her that door. I moved the fallen rocks to clear the door to move. Our builder got 3 or 4 men to help him carry the door the couple hundred yards to our house, and it is built into our new house. It is in very bad shape, my wife stapled plastic inside it to keep things from flying in, but she is happy, and y'all married guys know that is worth some hassle.

    Our daughter screamed with delight when she heard we had the old door.

    The main entrance in previous posting probably had such a door long ago. It was not an unprotected entrance.
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  6. #25
    mx
    May 2010
    539
    67 times

    Re: Mexican Legends on the Treasure of Moctezuma

    The last picture is taken from a few feet away from the previous picture, except looking back out the entrance.

    There is one lavadero (Mexican maytag) some yards away. It has what some call a face cut around the drain hole, though to me it is obviously an Aztec God. That dates it to before the priests came, which was 1600 or earlier. The second one (they always come in pairs when families have the money) was stolen, and has been rumored to be in a museum. This thing is made of a soft volcanic rock, and weights more than the 150 pounds I can move (not lift; move.)

    I asked our builder how they made that house so the walls you saw in these pictures are still standing after hundreds of years, without concrete. As best as I could understand him, they selected the rocks one at a time, and made the walls thick enough the rocks just sit there on top of each other. I find that amazing, though earthquakes have slowly taken it down!

    Note the family legends say this house was built in the days of Moctezuma. This is legend and is not proved.

    We know from University documents in Spain that this house did exist in the 18th Century, that is, early 1700's. We do not know it didn't exist in Moctezuma's day, just as we don't know it did.

    So, 250 - 300 years is very certain, beyond that it is strictly speculation.

    The locals had the legend the gold was buried in the house. With the new (to me) legend about the tomb of Moctezuma some distance away, one might make a wild conjecture the gold is with the body, but there is no evidence at all, just more speculation.
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  7. #26
    mx
    May 2010
    539
    67 times

    Re: Mexican Legends on the Treasure of Moctezuma

    The flat rocks piled in the entrance in the previous photo are called laja (lah-ha). They come from local quarries, and some have fish fossils in them. Evidence is this area, now over 5000 feet above sea level was once at ocean level.

    Laja is used for floors of houses and patios, my wife has a laja sidewalk in the back yard. Also, for house facings, I forget the name, where stone is applied to the front of a house.

    My wife's cousins run a laja quarry, and sell a lot of it.

    That laja is simply stored there until some use if found for it, I guess.

    I don't feel this is that interesting, but if someone disagrees, let me know; I have a good digital camera.

    I can't show you pictures of the gold, which is what you all want. Heh, heh.

  8. #27
    mx
    May 2010
    539
    67 times

    Re: Mexican Legends on the Treasure of Moctezuma

    Quote Originally Posted by Real de Tayopa
    some hiker: you posted --> And when you finally catch one?
    It's probably time for a nap....
    Us old guys got priorities,ya know
    ********************

    I hope that you notice that I am pointedly ignoring you, I won't lower myself to answer that , I refuse to get into a -- . further more ------ . I'll have you know that --- . well maybe you are correct a teeny bit, but I won't admit it, however, mi Tiger has a typical Latina temperament, very violently jealous. But she is calming down, She hasn't even come close with a coffee cup lately.

    Anyways, I have had her since 1958, so I guess that I will keep her, since she has me well trained .

    Don Jose de La Mancha

    p.s. Now about that nap, do you ----------
    I like your sense of humor.

    Also, it pleases me very much to hear a couple who have been together 52 years. My brother and his wife have been together since around 1962.

    When we had our 30th anniversary, I asked my Mexican wife, "Have we been married 30 years?"

    She said, "Yes."

    I said, "It seems so much longer."

    Without any expression she said, "I agree, it does seem much longer."

    She is wound pretty tight, but I can still make her laugh at times, though that wasn't one of them.

  9. #28
    Charter Member

    Dec 2005
    Arizona
    5,288
    508 times

    Re: Mexican Legends on the Treasure of Moctezuma

    piegrande,

    Wonderful pictures and a nice trip through some personal family history. I can appreciate these posts and would enjoy seeing all you feel like posting.

    Many Thanks,

    Joe

  10. #29
    us
    Feb 2006
    New Hampshire - USA
    Fisher CZ21, Teknetics T2 & Minelab Sovereign GT
    2,245
    338 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Banner Finds (1)

    Re: Mexican Legends on the Treasure of Moctezuma

    Agreed - beautiful photos and a great example of how an obviously once amazing home slowly becomes a ruins and is reclaimed by nature.

    You do have a good digital camera - feel free to post more photos!
    "There is no getting away from a treasure that once fastens upon your mind" - Joseph Conrad (Nostromo)

  11. #30
    mx
    May 2010
    539
    67 times

    Re: Mexican Legends on the Treasure of Moctezuma

    I was walking on the hills, I didn't start until late because of the heat of the sun at mid-day. So, I was pushing dark coming down the hill. Let me explain.

    When I leave my house, I climb what I call a mountain, not sure it is that pretentious, but that is what I call it.

    I walk around 4,000 feet and my altimeter says I have climbed 400 feet. Not bad, but there are a lot of loose rocks.

    Then, I walk a mile or so across what I call the mesa, then a very steep climb of 250 feet, again mostly loose rocks.

    Then, I am at the ranch where my wife's grandmother was born. This takes me around an hour and 20 minutes.

    Then, if it is a short walk, visit friends there a few minutes and back home.

    This one afternoon, as I crossed the mesa and was starting over the edge to drop 400 feet on loose rocks, I noted some pretty clouds, and decided to take a picture of it. To my surprise it actually came out.

    Be sure to look at Popo in the distance.

    Edited: sorry, had to remove, resize and re-post. I forgot to check pixel count, a lot of space on a photo with uniform color makes for a large photo with modest size. Hope this is better.
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  12. #31
    mx
    May 2010
    539
    67 times

    Re: Mexican Legends on the Treasure of Moctezuma

    Now, another tale.

    I know a builder. To build a house here it is mostly concrete work, Dig; drill; and/or blast a hole in the rocks in the ground and put in footings for columns, then put in wall, with slits open, then put up a built up core of rebar, build vertical forms, then fill it with concrete, carried up a ladder in 5 gallon buckets, to make a steel reinforced vertical column. Then add horizontal beams, then build up a steel reinforced roof on it.

    I am told they were digging on this mountain side to put in the footing for a small house, and discovered an old body.

    There was fabric with it, and there were CEREMONIAL CUPS!!!!

    So, this was not a peon, though it is possible I suppose a peon would have cups, nor would ceremonial cups have been used after the priests came here, no later than 1600. At least it is not likely.

    The good news about the ceremonial cups is you can tell it is not a murder victim buried to hide a crime.

    They thought it over, and realized bad things happen to private property where ancient things are found by the government.

    So, they dug another hole some distance away, and re-buried the body.

    When I was told this story a few years ago, my first thought was: Moctezuma!!!! Though of course that was a wild fancy, not a realistic thought.

    Yet, I can't blame them for doing what they did. These people are not rich and to have some or all of their land taken would be a disaster.

    Still, I felt really sad that this opportunity was missed.

    I also thought of y-marker DNA testing, but if I didn't mention it, the descendants of the Moctezuma family came from the last surviving female, so y-marker testing is not possible. (I have put a lot of time into y-marker testing so have some knowledge on the topic.)

    Still, doesn't that make you whimper, to see an old body go unexamined? It did me.

  13. #32
    mx
    May 2010
    539
    67 times

    Re: Mexican Legends on the Treasure of Moctezuma

    Here is a picture of the old lavadero (Mexican Maytag). For years before we built the house, I washed my underwear in this thing, and always wondered why on earth in this day and age anyone would carve an Aztec god over the drain hole.

    One day, it came over me like a brilliant inspiration. "That sucker is old!"

    When I thought about it, it made sense that it was carved before the priests came, which was before 1600, I believe. If someone had carved Aztec gods after the priests came, knowing of the Inquisition in those days, he would have been tortured and killed.

    When I asked about the other one, since it was normal to have two, one to wash; one to rinse; I was told it was stolen and someone saw it later in a museum.

    It made me feel really rich to wash my underwear in a valuable museum piece!

    I am not as strong as I used to be. I am not sure what that thing weighs, but my guess is at least 175 pounds.
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  14. #33
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    10,203
    834 times

    Re: Mexican Legends on the Treasure of Moctezuma

    HI my friend: From the looks of the face's mouth, I believe that you have a problem and should wash yer undies more often. snicker.

    Apol for the levity.

    Don Jose de La Mancha
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  15. #34
    mx
    May 2010
    539
    67 times

    Re: Mexican Legends on the Treasure of Moctezuma

    This ruins room was the kitchen when my wife was young. It is shown from the outside in a photo above. It was always rather dark inside except for the smoke hole.

    I was on the property in 1999 when the earthquake did this last damage to this room. I had been in minor earthquakes, but that was my first significant one. For those who don't know what an earthquake is like, it's like standing on a much bigger version of the pseudo-random vibration tables used to test military equipment, with approximately the same power frequency distribution.

    The kitchen could be rebuilt, but it is not mine, alas.

    The men heat water in metal buckets over an open fire outside, and take a bath -- not often, to my wife's disgust -- in an old metal bath tub, in this room. Otherwise it is not used for much of anything.

    The "stove" you cannot really make out. They actually cooked over an open fire, using rocks to prop up pots and pans. And, there was a swinging hook hanging out from the wall for some pots with handles.

    The 'stove' is now covered with debris. It is a flat layer of rocks, and the sun light in the center at the bottom of the picture just touches the end of that 'stove'.

    My wife learned to cook nearly 60 years ago on that exact open 'stove', and I have seen her and her late aunt make gourmet quality food on an open fire. Not that 'stove' but one like it in front of a small house they built when this was no longer livable. The smoke went out a hole in the roof.

    From watching the women cook on an open fire, I know that women could cook well on the fireplaces used by pioneers in the early days of the States.

    To this day, the cooking her 'bachelor' uncles do is over a similar open fire at the other house. They don't do much of it; a DIL cooks and when my wife is here, she adds an atole drink and yogurt every morning for breakfast.

    I have seen my wife move the wood and the fire goes up, and move the wood and the fire goes down, like turning up and down a gas stove, but slower, of course. It sounds primitive, but those women get so good at it, it is amazing.

    Now, of course, she uses a new Mabe brand gas kitchen stove in our house, but if she had to, in a few minutes it would come back to her, like riding a bicycle. A tank of gas, 22 kg, or 44 pounds of gas, for just two of us, lasted 11 weeks with that new stove. That was the same time to the very day a tank of gas lasted on the water heater we use for showers and the washing machine. The tank costs about $15 USD exchange; a truck drives by playing music so we know it is there.

    In case anyone wonders why some of us marry Mexican country girls, heh, heh.
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  16. #35
    mx
    May 2010
    539
    67 times

    Re: Mexican Legends on the Treasure of Moctezuma

    Quote Originally Posted by Real de Tayopa
    HI my friend: From the looks of the face's mouth, I believe that you have a problem and should wash yer undies more often. snicker.

    Apol for the levity.

    Don Jose de La Mancha
    Good one. Remember my first words on this thread were a plea to forgive my own sick sense of humor...

    Actually it has been some years since I used that lavadero, because maybe 5 years ago we installed a Whirlpool automatic in our house a hundred yards up the mountain side. Our standards are a shower and clean underwear daily. I have maybe 15 sets, ditto for sox, and we wash when I am getting low. Outer garments, since this is agricultural country in our part of town get changed when they show soiling.

    We have a large, flat roof, and clothes lines there. Clothes are really fresh after a couple hours in the mountain sun.

    I asked the youngest cousin, and he told me he uses that lavadero just for washing dishes now. If that helps.

  17. #36
    mx
    May 2010
    539
    67 times

    Re: Mexican Legends on the Treasure of Moctezuma

    This picture showed how houses for rich people were built before the use of modern cement.

    I estimated the walls are close to 36 inches thick.

    I examined them to see how they are made, since to just lay up a wall of rocks would certainly not last 300 to 500 years as these have.

    I better explain about white dirt, which is what it is called.

    The mountains are made of travertine marble. True marble I believe is banked by volcanic temperatures. Travertine is also limestone based, but its form is made by water processes, until it reaches the texture one expects for marble floors. The main customers in this village are rich American women.

    The dust from the marble is a major component of the earth on these mountains. The dirt in my back yard is almost pure white.

    We at times order a truck load of this white dirt, though these days it may actually be no more than marble dust from the quarry excavation process.

    If you put white dirt on the road, wet it, and pack it, it becomes a rather hard surface, until it dries for a considerable time. Black or brown dirt tends to become mud.

    Looking at the walls, I think they laid it up with white dirt. If you make a wall with cement, you lay on a bit of mortar between rocks. This looks like they laid on a 'mortar' of white dirt mixed with water, and made it wide enough it was fairly stable. Stable enough to last hundreds of years, only slowly breaking up a room at a time.

    The wall and roof combined to keep the dirt dry enough to hold up a long time. It will eventually break down, though.
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  18. #37
    mx
    May 2010
    539
    67 times

    Re: Mexican Legends on the Treasure of Moctezuma

    The only other thing of interest in the house is the spring, historically never dry, which was a major security item since they could last a long time as long as they had water. When farmers started drilling wells for vegetable crops, it started drying up.

    The question is, did they build the house around a spring? Or, did they use a lot of slave labor to build a tunnel from an existing spring, then cover it beyond recognition? We will never know.

    Here is the opening, now dry. My wife's brother crawled up it when he was a kid, and said it went a long ways, which is the reason I wonder if it were built to open in the house.

    Unless something new comes up, I will wait for further postings until I get to see "Moctezuma's tomb."
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  19. #38
    us
    Feb 2006
    New Hampshire - USA
    Fisher CZ21, Teknetics T2 & Minelab Sovereign GT
    2,245
    338 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Banner Finds (1)

    Re: Mexican Legends on the Treasure of Moctezuma

    Great photos and interesting stories! Thanks for sharing it and I look forward to seeing more things in the future.
    "There is no getting away from a treasure that once fastens upon your mind" - Joseph Conrad (Nostromo)

  20. #39
    mx
    May 2010
    539
    67 times

    Re: Mexican Legends on the Treasure of Moctezuma

    Thank you for the nice words. I have no idea how long it will be until I can get those guys to show me the so-called Moctezuma's tomb. I am excited, but at their mercy.

  21. #40
    us
    Having the time of my life!

    Sep 2008
    Cincinnati
    531
    14 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: Mexican Legends on the Treasure of Moctezuma

    What a great bunch of posts! I have not been to Mexico but have been to Guatemala and Belize in the remote parts and loved it. The people there are the best. We were there to help build a Church of the Nazarene church in Shalom in Guatemala and a Church school in or near Binky Veho? In Belize. I love our cousins south of the border, what people! I understand their desire to get here and work, they were doing hard work for a dollar a day (1992) and worked hard for it. I just want it to be legal .

    In regards to treasure while we were there one of the guys stayed with a Guatemalan family and they ended up giving him 5 or 6 pieces of jade carved into those Aztec or Mayan faces that looks so fierce. They were the size of silver dollars and you just knew they were very old. They said they had found them in some of the ruins, but he didn't ask where. He didn't say anything till we were back in the Us, when I told him he could have went to jail or prison he almost fainted! He really didn't know he was smuggling artifacts! ha ha

    And yes some of the most beautiful women are there, and very humble too. Saw many washing clothes in the streams that would have made it to any cover on any model magazine.
    Yea, though I walk through the Valley of Death I will fear no evil for thou art with me.

 

 
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