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  1. #31
    mx
    May 2010
    580
    78 times

    Re: Mexican Legends on the Treasure of Moctezuma

    Now, another tale.

    I know a builder. To build a house here it is mostly concrete work, Dig; drill; and/or blast a hole in the rocks in the ground and put in footings for columns, then put in wall, with slits open, then put up a built up core of rebar, build vertical forms, then fill it with concrete, carried up a ladder in 5 gallon buckets, to make a steel reinforced vertical column. Then add horizontal beams, then build up a steel reinforced roof on it.

    I am told they were digging on this mountain side to put in the footing for a small house, and discovered an old body.

    There was fabric with it, and there were CEREMONIAL CUPS!!!!

    So, this was not a peon, though it is possible I suppose a peon would have cups, nor would ceremonial cups have been used after the priests came here, no later than 1600. At least it is not likely.

    The good news about the ceremonial cups is you can tell it is not a murder victim buried to hide a crime.

    They thought it over, and realized bad things happen to private property where ancient things are found by the government.

    So, they dug another hole some distance away, and re-buried the body.

    When I was told this story a few years ago, my first thought was: Moctezuma!!!! Though of course that was a wild fancy, not a realistic thought.

    Yet, I can't blame them for doing what they did. These people are not rich and to have some or all of their land taken would be a disaster.

    Still, I felt really sad that this opportunity was missed.

    I also thought of y-marker DNA testing, but if I didn't mention it, the descendants of the Moctezuma family came from the last surviving female, so y-marker testing is not possible. (I have put a lot of time into y-marker testing so have some knowledge on the topic.)

    Still, doesn't that make you whimper, to see an old body go unexamined? It did me.

  2. #32
    mx
    May 2010
    580
    78 times

    Re: Mexican Legends on the Treasure of Moctezuma

    Here is a picture of the old lavadero (Mexican Maytag). For years before we built the house, I washed my underwear in this thing, and always wondered why on earth in this day and age anyone would carve an Aztec god over the drain hole.

    One day, it came over me like a brilliant inspiration. "That sucker is old!"

    When I thought about it, it made sense that it was carved before the priests came, which was before 1600, I believe. If someone had carved Aztec gods after the priests came, knowing of the Inquisition in those days, he would have been tortured and killed.

    When I asked about the other one, since it was normal to have two, one to wash; one to rinse; I was told it was stolen and someone saw it later in a museum.

    It made me feel really rich to wash my underwear in a valuable museum piece!

    I am not as strong as I used to be. I am not sure what that thing weighs, but my guess is at least 175 pounds.
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  3. #33
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    10,672
    1440 times

    Re: Mexican Legends on the Treasure of Moctezuma

    HI my friend: From the looks of the face's mouth, I believe that you have a problem and should wash yer undies more often. snicker.

    Apol for the levity.

    Don Jose de La Mancha
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  4. #34
    mx
    May 2010
    580
    78 times

    Re: Mexican Legends on the Treasure of Moctezuma

    This ruins room was the kitchen when my wife was young. It is shown from the outside in a photo above. It was always rather dark inside except for the smoke hole.

    I was on the property in 1999 when the earthquake did this last damage to this room. I had been in minor earthquakes, but that was my first significant one. For those who don't know what an earthquake is like, it's like standing on a much bigger version of the pseudo-random vibration tables used to test military equipment, with approximately the same power frequency distribution.

    The kitchen could be rebuilt, but it is not mine, alas.

    The men heat water in metal buckets over an open fire outside, and take a bath -- not often, to my wife's disgust -- in an old metal bath tub, in this room. Otherwise it is not used for much of anything.

    The "stove" you cannot really make out. They actually cooked over an open fire, using rocks to prop up pots and pans. And, there was a swinging hook hanging out from the wall for some pots with handles.

    The 'stove' is now covered with debris. It is a flat layer of rocks, and the sun light in the center at the bottom of the picture just touches the end of that 'stove'.

    My wife learned to cook nearly 60 years ago on that exact open 'stove', and I have seen her and her late aunt make gourmet quality food on an open fire. Not that 'stove' but one like it in front of a small house they built when this was no longer livable. The smoke went out a hole in the roof.

    From watching the women cook on an open fire, I know that women could cook well on the fireplaces used by pioneers in the early days of the States.

    To this day, the cooking her 'bachelor' uncles do is over a similar open fire at the other house. They don't do much of it; a DIL cooks and when my wife is here, she adds an atole drink and yogurt every morning for breakfast.

    I have seen my wife move the wood and the fire goes up, and move the wood and the fire goes down, like turning up and down a gas stove, but slower, of course. It sounds primitive, but those women get so good at it, it is amazing.

    Now, of course, she uses a new Mabe brand gas kitchen stove in our house, but if she had to, in a few minutes it would come back to her, like riding a bicycle. A tank of gas, 22 kg, or 44 pounds of gas, for just two of us, lasted 11 weeks with that new stove. That was the same time to the very day a tank of gas lasted on the water heater we use for showers and the washing machine. The tank costs about $15 USD exchange; a truck drives by playing music so we know it is there.

    In case anyone wonders why some of us marry Mexican country girls, heh, heh.
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  5. #35
    mx
    May 2010
    580
    78 times

    Re: Mexican Legends on the Treasure of Moctezuma

    Quote Originally Posted by Real de Tayopa
    HI my friend: From the looks of the face's mouth, I believe that you have a problem and should wash yer undies more often. snicker.

    Apol for the levity.

    Don Jose de La Mancha
    Good one. Remember my first words on this thread were a plea to forgive my own sick sense of humor...

    Actually it has been some years since I used that lavadero, because maybe 5 years ago we installed a Whirlpool automatic in our house a hundred yards up the mountain side. Our standards are a shower and clean underwear daily. I have maybe 15 sets, ditto for sox, and we wash when I am getting low. Outer garments, since this is agricultural country in our part of town get changed when they show soiling.

    We have a large, flat roof, and clothes lines there. Clothes are really fresh after a couple hours in the mountain sun.

    I asked the youngest cousin, and he told me he uses that lavadero just for washing dishes now. If that helps.

  6. #36
    mx
    May 2010
    580
    78 times

    Re: Mexican Legends on the Treasure of Moctezuma

    This picture showed how houses for rich people were built before the use of modern cement.

    I estimated the walls are close to 36 inches thick.

    I examined them to see how they are made, since to just lay up a wall of rocks would certainly not last 300 to 500 years as these have.

    I better explain about white dirt, which is what it is called.

    The mountains are made of travertine marble. True marble I believe is banked by volcanic temperatures. Travertine is also limestone based, but its form is made by water processes, until it reaches the texture one expects for marble floors. The main customers in this village are rich American women.

    The dust from the marble is a major component of the earth on these mountains. The dirt in my back yard is almost pure white.

    We at times order a truck load of this white dirt, though these days it may actually be no more than marble dust from the quarry excavation process.

    If you put white dirt on the road, wet it, and pack it, it becomes a rather hard surface, until it dries for a considerable time. Black or brown dirt tends to become mud.

    Looking at the walls, I think they laid it up with white dirt. If you make a wall with cement, you lay on a bit of mortar between rocks. This looks like they laid on a 'mortar' of white dirt mixed with water, and made it wide enough it was fairly stable. Stable enough to last hundreds of years, only slowly breaking up a room at a time.

    The wall and roof combined to keep the dirt dry enough to hold up a long time. It will eventually break down, though.
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  7. #37
    mx
    May 2010
    580
    78 times

    Re: Mexican Legends on the Treasure of Moctezuma

    The only other thing of interest in the house is the spring, historically never dry, which was a major security item since they could last a long time as long as they had water. When farmers started drilling wells for vegetable crops, it started drying up.

    The question is, did they build the house around a spring? Or, did they use a lot of slave labor to build a tunnel from an existing spring, then cover it beyond recognition? We will never know.

    Here is the opening, now dry. My wife's brother crawled up it when he was a kid, and said it went a long ways, which is the reason I wonder if it were built to open in the house.

    Unless something new comes up, I will wait for further postings until I get to see "Moctezuma's tomb."
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  8. #38
    us
    Feb 2006
    New Hampshire - USA
    Fisher CZ21, Teknetics T2 & Minelab Sovereign GT
    2,277
    397 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Banner Finds (1)

    Re: Mexican Legends on the Treasure of Moctezuma

    Great photos and interesting stories! Thanks for sharing it and I look forward to seeing more things in the future.
    "There is no getting away from a treasure that once fastens upon your mind" - Joseph Conrad (Nostromo)

  9. #39
    mx
    May 2010
    580
    78 times

    Re: Mexican Legends on the Treasure of Moctezuma

    Thank you for the nice words. I have no idea how long it will be until I can get those guys to show me the so-called Moctezuma's tomb. I am excited, but at their mercy.

  10. #40
    us
    Having the time of my life!

    Sep 2008
    Cincinnati
    554
    17 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: Mexican Legends on the Treasure of Moctezuma

    What a great bunch of posts! I have not been to Mexico but have been to Guatemala and Belize in the remote parts and loved it. The people there are the best. We were there to help build a Church of the Nazarene church in Shalom in Guatemala and a Church school in or near Binky Veho? In Belize. I love our cousins south of the border, what people! I understand their desire to get here and work, they were doing hard work for a dollar a day (1992) and worked hard for it. I just want it to be legal .

    In regards to treasure while we were there one of the guys stayed with a Guatemalan family and they ended up giving him 5 or 6 pieces of jade carved into those Aztec or Mayan faces that looks so fierce. They were the size of silver dollars and you just knew they were very old. They said they had found them in some of the ruins, but he didn't ask where. He didn't say anything till we were back in the Us, when I told him he could have went to jail or prison he almost fainted! He really didn't know he was smuggling artifacts! ha ha

    And yes some of the most beautiful women are there, and very humble too. Saw many washing clothes in the streams that would have made it to any cover on any model magazine.
    Yea, though I walk through the Valley of Death I will fear no evil for thou art with me.

  11. #41
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    10,672
    1440 times

    Re: Mexican Legends on the Treasure of Moctezuma

    good morning Curtis: Obviously I agree with you since I married one of the enemy he he.

    Don Jose de La Mancha
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    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  12. #42
    mx
    May 2010
    580
    78 times

    Re: Mexican Legends on the Treasure of Moctezuma

    Real de Tayopa, here is my second hobby, one I am just learning.

    Sorry, I deserve men have been beat up for far less than repairing a woman's picture without permission, but your wife is such a lovely woman, I couldn't resist it. Actually, I'm not sure it's that much better, but I am still learning.

    If it doesn't look good posted, I will take it down, also if you want me to take it down let me know.

    If you want it, ask, and I will tell you how to access it for printing. My photo editor glitched when converting it to jpeg, so I had to convert it from .gif from the command line. This took me several REMOVES to figure out.
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  13. #43
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    10,672
    1440 times

    Re: Mexican Legends on the Treasure of Moctezuma

    HI Big foot: Beautifully done my friend, thanks. She loves it.

    Don Jose de La Mancha
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  14. #44
    us
    Apr 2010
    Garrett , Minelab ,White's, others and B.S. sniffer
    561
    30 times

    Re: Mexican Legends on the Treasure of Moctezuma

    I just want to thank you for all the pictures/etc. , the history, the humor, and everything. You are in a beautiful country. Your wife is a classical beautiful woman...and I congratulate you....you already posses a treasure.

  15. #45
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    10,672
    1440 times

    Re: Mexican Legends on the Treasure of Moctezuma

    Good evening oddrock: She thanks you deeply, and wonders why I don't consider her a treasure also? I do, I dooo, sigh.. See what you started hehehe.

    Don Jose de La Mancha
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

 

 
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