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  1. #61
    May 2010
    67 times

    Re: Mexican Legends on the Treasure of Moctezuma

    Quote Originally Posted by Springfield
    Quote Originally Posted by piegrande
    Since I have had no contact with GPR, I can not speak in an informed manner. But, if a GPR can't spot a filled 'basement' under a ~2,000 square foot house with a dirt floor, they are totally worthless, IMO. What I have read would indicate they can do that, but that is reading technical articles on them.

    Anyway, it is improbable I will ever have money to obtain the use of a GPR.
    May work, may not. Many have spent significant money to rent them and have been disappointed. Of course, the disappointment may also have arisen from a lack of a target to be detected. Might have to revert to a shovel to find out. It's cheaper and the results are indisputable.
    Let me see if I understand what you are saying (more Real than Springfield). The only reason not to dig up the floor of a hundreds year old house belonging to known descendants of the Aztec Emperors is because I don't want the work involved?

    Please stop and think this over.

    I not only would be more than glad to dig, if it were allowed. I am in great physical condition for 69 years old, at least compared to most American men my age. And, for $50 a day, I could have two very strong men who are used to digging. $500 USD would raise Cain with those floors. They will be the men who eventually dig into the mysterious 'hole' I mentioned on another thread, when I get around to it. But, that is on my own property.

    To drag along a funny looking apparatus with flashing lights and beeps on top of the dirt floor is probably not a big problem, except for the cost. They would probably sit and watch the fun, and if it could be shown there was something down there, there is at least a vague chance they would then allow digging. To dig it all to shreds just on a wild hunch is a whole different matter.

    I think I made it clear the GPR is pretty much a fantasy thought, and not something I can ever afford. Likewise, I do not imagine I will ever be allowed to dig that ancient ruins all to shreds. Yes, it is a bit frustrating to imagine there might be something down there, or not. We cannot always do the things we would like to do.

    I do think if I get a metal detector they would allow me to snoop around. Anything of significant value is probably not within MD distance, if it exists.

    It is very common to be restricted on access to private property, whether by amateur treasure seekers, or university research teams looking for historical information. It is necessary to understand the viewpoints of the property owners, especially in a different culture.

    There is one chance. One of the sons of the uncle who actually owns the ruins is a very greedy rascal. If he inherits, as opposed to the other sons, it might be possible to convince him to allow digging, as long as he gets anything found, which would suit me fine.

    In my opinion, if the GPR showed nothing down there, I would take that to mean there is nothing down there, end of search.

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  3. #62
    Nov 2004
    816 times

    Re: Mexican Legends on the Treasure of Moctezuma

    Pie grande, my reference was to myself, "I was born lazy and have successfully dedicated my life to not changing".

    Incidentally a modern ground canceling two box detector will locate a refrigerator or stove to 30 ft if you know what your are doing. Do you realize just how big an excavation to 30 is unless elaborately braced?

    Don Jose de La Mancha
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  4. #63
    May 2010
    67 times

    Re: Mexican Legends on the Treasure of Moctezuma

    I do know very well what an excavation to 30 feet looks like. Since the government installed deep wells and have extracted large quantities of water for irrigating large fields of vegetables, the water systems have been disrupted. So, the local people have dug a number of wells, by hand, to that depth. Some find water. Some do not. They do brace them when needed, though much of the soil here is "pre-marble", and very solid. When we dug our septic tank, it was ten feet by ten feet by ten feet, and the soil was so hard no bracing was needed.

    However, the old house here is not in a place appropriate for a 30 foot burial of valuables. The floors of the upper rooms are no more than 2 meters above the probable water table during rainy season.

    Also, remember the alleged discovery in the lower room of the house required no more excavation than two meters.

    Let me add a thought here. If it is true they found bones, and a gold necklace, and fine pottery buried in the floor, you can be sure it was an important person. First, to be buried in an important house instead of in one of the several cemeteries of that era. Second, a hidden burial. And, Third, with a valuable necklace.

    I am not going to suggest it could be Moctezuma II. That would be an unbelievable coincidence. But, I am certainly not going to say it was NOT Moctezuma II. I am going to say it was an important person. Which century? Who knows?

    Two box? Thirty feet? Wow! I need to know more. That would be worth saving for. I assume they are expensive, but how expensive? Several thousand dollars? Several tens of thousands of dollars? Not to worry; I will be Googling.

    I just did, and Garrett has a two box GTI2500 under $1200. If I felt I had a use for it, I think I could handle that in the next year or two. The only problem would be importing it, since it is over the $1000 limit without an import broker. Perhaps I could talk to Garrett in Mexico City...

    Let me point out that it is alleged the Aztecs normally did not have bullion, that is, large bricks of gold, but often fine body jewelry. So, there may not be enough bulk to trip any detector.

    Also, many Spanish at the time were convinced all significant gold was found and sent to Spain, except that which fell in the lake at Tenochtitlan.

    Of course, I would like to know the truth about the treasure. But, in the ancient house next to my property, probably the best thing to do is leave it alone. As long as archaeological evidence is left alone, it will be available to skilled investigators almost forever. I may have to accept not knowing, even as I live here next to it.

  5. #64
    May 2010
    67 times

    Re: Mexican Legends on the Treasure of Moctezuma

    I am not paranoid. Everyone really is out to get me.

    Of course, I am joking. But, the community of treasure hunters can at times be very tricky, which puts the smart money on the defensive.

    I got a PM from a person offering to send me information on Moctezuma if I would send an e-mail.

    Odds are better than 50:50 it was a valid offer from a truly nice person, and there are many such people on this board.

    At the same time the odds were not 100:0 that it was a valid offer. I am not a neophyte on computers and am well aware there are "hidden headers" on e-mails which will tell you the entire path of a mail from its source to the recipient.

    Since I do not know personally the person, I had to opt for maximum security and decline his offer. I am not sending an e-mail to any person who has read my postings here if I can help it.

    If that person reads this, and it was a legitimate offer, OR he did not know about the hidden headers, I apologize for the need to respond this way.

    If any of you were unaware of the hidden headers, look at the menu on your e-mail program, and click on something like View Headers.

    I don't know if I mentioned it, but around 1998, there was a major crime wave in Mexico City. I spent a lot of time there. To my total surprise, I found I am extremely street wise. I can spot the crooks usually a half block away. It's hard to explain but it uses the same techniques Secret Service uses to spot threats to the President. It definitely involves profiling and observing body language.

    At least 4 times, there were incidents which exceeded 90% probability of a planned robbery, and I simply wasn't there.

    This may get me labeled as mentally ill, heh, heh, but I actually enjoyed going out to the streets and matching wits with the thugs. Like a real live chess game. I bore easily, and this was not boring.

    Anyway, yes, I am suspicious by nature.

    Let me add a note here. I have been very careful not to narrow down the location of my home within several thousand square miles. If you think I have, you may be wrong. The emperor's owned property over a very large area, and sent their daughters to marry local caciques, and married daughters of local caciques. There are Moctezuma descendants all over the Central Highlands of Mexico.

  6. #65
    Apr 2008
    87 times

    Re: Mexican Legends on the Treasure of Moctezuma

    Ah Pie, I do not take offense in the least. Thinking of security is a wise thing to do. I do so enjoy your postings. The info had to do with burial customs is all I will say but will not post it here. Enjoy your stories greatly. They make me feel I am right there and give interesting insights into life south of the border.

    Thanks for sharing them.

    Don't believe everything you read on the internet - Abraham Lincoln

  7. #66
    May 2010
    67 times

    Re: Mexican Legends on the Treasure of Moctezuma

    Real, I am aware there is a sub forum for brands of metal detectors. But, here you well know what I am doing. So, I would like to ask an opinion for my circumstances. If I go on the brand detector page, there will be hundreds of different suggestions, which becomes useless information.

    I have in fact been reading in much detail opinions on different brands and models.

    Right now, it looks to me like I need to decide between Whites TM808 deep seeker, or Garrett GTI 2500.

    I know if there is a buried treasure here, I almost certainly need something that will go deep. And, the TM808 will go deep.

    But, the GTI2500 with the Eagle Eye coil also seems to be a very good detector for shallow things like coins if I put in the basic coil.

    If I get the TM808 I would also need a basic metal detector. The TM costs enough less that I could buy a modestly priced Garrett for shallow work, I guess.

    Actually, I would like the older TM808 or TF900 because of the Cave function. It is rumored there are tunnels here running great distances. But, I don't know if I could find an older machine in good shape.

    There most definitely is a tunnel here. The spring in the old Moctezuma house very definitely comes out of a tunnel. My brother-in-law crawled up it well over 50 years ago. Not that we think it is an important tunnel. We think it's just there to put a source of water in that old house in case of enemy attack. But, it would work for practice while learning tunnel locating.

    And, the neighbor whose dad used to own this land said when he was young, they dug down and found a tunnel, but he doesn't remember exactly where, except in my back yard somewhere.

    Anyway, any ideas from anyone who has followed my story of local legends? Thanks.


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