Welcome guest, is this your first visit?
Member
Discoveries
 
Results 1 to 15 of 15
Like Tree15Likes
  • 2 Post By piegrande
  • 2 Post By piegrande
  • 1 Post By piegrande
  • 1 Post By piegrande
  • 1 Post By piegrande
  • 1 Post By audigger53
  • 2 Post By Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp
  • 1 Post By piegrande
  • 2 Post By piegrande
  • 2 Post By piegrande

Thread: How to dig out the gold

« Prev Thread | Next Thread »
  1. #1
    mx
    May 2010
    874
    370 times

    How to dig out the gold

    This thread is my opinion of what would be involved in taking out the gold and jewels if one knew the gold was where I think it is. Let's be ridiculous for theory's sake and assume one had permission from the owner and from the government. An impossibility, of course. But, this assumption is necessary because without them the task is impossible.

    I don't know what you would find. I only know what my theory says you will find because of how the Aztecs did things and details supplied by family members.

    First, one would have to gain access to the room. A steel door with a standard type lock commonly used on doors of that sort in Mexico. A delay, but not a big one. A few minutes if you know what you are doing. Perhaps even silently. The last time anything can be done silently.

    Then, there is apparently a stone floor. The stone most likely used is at least two inches thick and the material is very heavy. Marble runs around 150 pounds a cubic foot, and this stone is somewhat more dense. But, I have no figures on it.

    Correction. We have used a lot of that stone in construction and I have a half pickup load left over. So I went out and actually measured it. It varied from 1.5 to 3 inches thick, with 2.0 inches being most common.

    I am guessing it is held in place with mortar, that is a mixture of sand; quick lime, and Portland cement, since those were available when the floor was installed.

    To break up that stone is a lot of work. A large sledge hammer, perhaps, or a large, heavy bar commonly used here for such tasks. Large pieces that would break off probably weigh 80 pounds and up. All of that stone has to be broken up and carried off before you can actually start digging for the goodies. Very noisy.

    Now, to the soil. The hills around here are made of travertine marble, which is not real igneous marble, but created by water action on limestone. The marble is covered with a thick layer of marble dust. They have a name for that dust which essentially means pre-marble. Give it time and it all turns into marble, too.

    So, that dirt is really hard for dirt, not your standard loam.

    When the workers installed our septic tank, it was probably in the ballpark size of the place where I think the gold is, though maybe that is larger. There is only one way to find out, and that is not going to happen in our lifetimes.

    That dirt is so hard and strong that when they made my septic tank, knowing it will eventually fill up, they didn't even put in any sort of concrete liner. And, along the rivers, the exposed banks go years without cave-ins.

    I don't know how deeply the skeleton was buried. I would have to estimate between 12 and 36 inches. Of hard digging.

    Then you hit the stone floor/roof. If there are dainty things in there, you have to dig around the outside of the stone box and break in from the side. More digging. More time.

    Now where do you put the stones and dirt you dig up? It has to go outside. No room in the room itself.

    Once you have dug around the stone box then you have to break the box open in a manner not to destroy the contents whatever they are.

    The Aztec workers were strong men. Even if they dug day and night, they would have had enough workers to just swap when someone got tired, rather than the digging stopping while the digger rested. It took a lot of people to carry that much weight over 100 miles, and only a limited number can dig in that space at a time.

    You would either need enough diggers to swap over and over and over. Or, time to dig goes up.

    So, for many days or weeks with large numbers of people coming and going, banging and noises all the time; mounds of dirt all over the place, in a place which is described by tax agencies as urban. Maybe 50 to 75 people within a city block. Only one of them hard of hearing.

    Also, all sorts of foreigners with non-Spanish and non-North American accents, running back and forth and in and out. Buying food and t.p. and pick axes and liniment and cigarettes and other stuff and going to the doctor for injuries. Yeah, the various and sundry government authorities are really not that dense.

    I say again it is not at all do-able without both government and owner permission. Not because I am without courage, but because that is simply not the way things are done here.

    And, every word I have written about the response of local; state and Mexican Federal LEO is real. Anyone who lives in Mexico well knows I told the truth and there was no threat. My best friend was for 22 years the 'county coroner' (not what they call it here), thus a sworn law enforcement official and I learned a lot about LEO in Mexico from him.

    After some thought, I would no longer talk about blocking my driveway with my car. No need. Just nuke some popcorn and watch.

    What have I forgotten? Oh, my goodness. It is unthinkable that one could do all that digging in any case. But, imagine you had a magic wand and thus spirited the gold out and piled it on the ground in front of the old house.

    Just how are you going to transport 15 tons of gold and jewels out of the country? Again, without being noticed by LEO at every point? How many pickups and how many trucks? Again, back and forth day after day.

    I have no idea what would prompt any person to think they can just take the gold from here, no matter what anyone says or does.

  2. #2
    mx
    May 2010
    874
    370 times
    Re-reading some of my previous postings to remind myself what I have written in the past. On re-reading this thread, I became curious. I can write in detail what excavating the treasure in its (possible) location would involve here because I know the terrain and soil. And, the reverse engineering to conclude it's there even supplies the most likely means of storage. The gold is either there or not, but if it is I know exactly what has to be done to truck it off.

    This has me curious about other places whose fans think the gold is located there.

    PLEASE do not out your suspected location. But, what would be involved in locating and removing the gold in the location you think it's at?

    Would it involve traditional mining techniques, in other words a super abandoned mine needing to be worked? Or fight your way down a long cavern past vicious snakes and traps to a stored treasure, but then just cart if off?

    Or, haven't you thought that far on logistics?

  3. #3
    us
    Feb 2011
    Lakeland, Florida
    457
    695 times
    Well, why not install a building of some sort over the site? And say it's for a business venture of some type. Quonset type would work, fairly cheap to erect.
    Couple of trucks, like garbage or dumps, as part of the business. Then do your digging inside the building, and haul off the excess debris, either to the dump mixed in with garbage, or sold as fill for someone's need. A few dollars passed around to the locals would work for keeping folks noses out of the workings.
    The Scarecrow sees all and tells none.

  4. #4
    mx
    May 2010
    874
    370 times
    The (possible) location is inside an ancient building. And, there are an estimated 75 people within approximately one city block.

    As a general rule, there are no secrets in a small, rural Mexican village.

    Even with all permissions, this would be a major project at every point, including taking the goodies away. That is the point I am trying to make. This sort of project in this exact location is impossible to hide. My guess is if someone started a project like this, within 24 hours, everyone within a 750 square mile area would be aware of it.

  5. #5
    Charter Member
    us
    Pirate of the Martires

    Feb 2005
    Port Richey, Florida
    Aquapulse, J.W. Fisher Proton 3, Pulse Star II, Detector Pro Headhunter, AK-47
    3,380
    1449 times
    Shipwrecks
    If the treasure is so secure it would be no problem for you to tell us exactly in which building it is located. There is no way I could get it out by myself for example.

  6. #6
    Charter Member
    us
    Rawhide

    Nov 2010
    SouthWestern USA
    Etrac, F75, AT Pro.
    3,437
    1949 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    So you feel there is a iron door and stone floor hiding gold? What about the Spanish who left to fight the war and back filled holes hastily? What are your thoughts on that?

  7. #7
    mx
    May 2010
    874
    370 times
    At any time during the last 495 years that treasure (if it were there as I believe) could have been dug up.

    But it was NOT dug up. As I reported, around 1910 the family dug down a short distance and found a skeleton with a gold neck piece which was donated to buy a new church bell. So, worrying about whether the treasure was taken becomes a null issue. It was not taken before the life of my wife's grandpa.

    A note on that 1910 date. The family told me that last Moctezuma, my wife's great grandma, died in 1911. When I found her death certificate, she actually died of 'tifoid' in spring of 1916. And, they said her husband later died in 1939. His death certificate was in 1937. They do have memory problems, most specifically for dates, and that is well known.

    If anyone had dug up that treasure over the centuries, they certainly would not have left behind a major piece of gold. At least, I don't think so. That is not believable to me.

    So, IF the treasure was down there below the skeleton it is still down there.

    A reminder that my theory by definition must be a personal theory. Part of my 30 year study includes hearing family and friend tales of the personalities, including that of the grandpa. There is no way I can share with you in a believable manner all I have heard of his personality, even if I wished to do so. Which essentially means I have information which you shall not have. Sorry.

    Sure, I could share tales with you of his life and things he did and how he lived. But, you would be taking my word for it, which is less than solid proof for y'all. Yet, the consistency of those tales satisfied me.

    Feel free to take my theory as anecdotal, whatever. I don't care much. It suits me after all my studies over the years and that is what is important to me. And, just as you cannot judge the personality of the grandpa, you also have no way to judge my personality. I can tell you for 30 years I have been my own worst critic, but you cannot know that.

    I am reminded of a politician who said, "I am not a crook!" But, of course, he probably was.

  8. #8
    mx
    May 2010
    874
    370 times
    Quote Originally Posted by Salvor6 View Post
    If the treasure is so secure it would be no problem for you to tell us exactly in which building it is located. There is no way I could get it out by myself for example.
    Did you think that question through before you asked it? How would you like a bunch of people who don't speak English roaming around your yard, tossing beer bottles and pop cans all over the place, and scaring your animals?

    Plus humans are not predictable in large groups. Most people would perhaps come and look and go away. But, there are always extreme cases, like the kid from Europe who said nothing and no one would ever stop him.

  9. #9
    mx
    May 2010
    874
    370 times
    Quote Originally Posted by Casca View Post
    So you feel there is a iron door and stone floor hiding gold? What about the Spanish who left to fight the war and back filled holes hastily? What are your thoughts on that?
    Remember this is a personal theory from a person who is part of the family by marriage. I know what can be seen without digging. The room is now used for a granary, and it has a steel door and there is a stone floor, though perhaps it is not the natural stone I thought in the past. When I mentioned my theory the owner started locking the door all the time.

    Recently, time has passed and he now leaves the door open again. So, I got a better look at the floor.

    What is, or may or may not be, below the stone floor is the heart of the theory. I am assuming they buried the treasure in the same manner they stored it in Tenochtitlan, in a stone box with compartments, not just dump it and cover it up.

    I do not understand the question about the Spanish leaving to fight the war. There were no Spanish here for some time. This was under control of the Aztecs. Explain the question and I will try to answer, though I do not have a time machine to go see.

  10. #10
    mx
    May 2010
    874
    370 times
    A correction. I commented on "the last Moctezuma". Wrong. There are Moctezuma's all over Mexico and probably the USA. I meant the last owner of the land here in the descendency of the Moctezuma family. She married a man with a different surname so they are no longer called Moctezuma. There are two other persons of that surname still here.

  11. #11
    us
    Mar 2004
    Severn, Maryland
    None
    891
    3148 times
    Cache Hunting
    In the US we have what is called a "Digging Bar", either 1 inch or 1.5 inches diameter, 5-6 feet long.
    Sharp point on one end and a chisel head on the other end. The chisel end will cut through rock fairly fast, just by lifting the bar up and dropping it to the rock/floor. If there are joints in the floor the point will go in and then act as a lever to pry it up. I have used one to move 3 foot diameter rocks out of the ground and then move them where I wanted them to be.

  12. #12
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    14,603
    11779 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Hola pie grande, now you understand some of my problems
    piegrande and AuTSaurus like this.
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  13. #13
    mx
    May 2010
    874
    370 times
    Quote Originally Posted by audigger53 View Post
    In the US we have what is called a "Digging Bar", either 1 inch or 1.5 inches diameter, 5-6 feet long.
    Sharp point on one end and a chisel head on the other end. The chisel end will cut through rock fairly fast, just by lifting the bar up and dropping it to the rock/floor. If there are joints in the floor the point will go in and then act as a lever to pry it up. I have used one to move 3 foot diameter rocks out of the ground and then move them where I wanted them to be.
    This is a quarry town, and they use those bars as much as machetes are used in other parts of Mexico for different functions. I myself a few years ago moved a 1100 pound rock 30 feet with such a bar, a few inches at a time.

    It is the white dirt, very solid, which takes the time. I see them working here; at times I have helped them, though my endurance is not equal to theirs So, this personal knowledge is part of my statement how long it would take to dig down there, and how hard of work it would be. This is all part of my statement that this whole thing is a personal theory based much on personal experience and knowledge whenever possible.

    When you think of 'dirt" you think of taking a pickaxe, giving a mighty swing, and a big piece breaks off. This pre-travertine is like chipping at a rock, but not brittle enough to break off.
    doc-d likes this.

  14. #14
    mx
    May 2010
    874
    370 times
    Quote Originally Posted by Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp View Post
    Hola pie grande, now you understand some of my problems
    i have to say, no, because you haven't told us in great detail what your problems are.

    But, I assume you are implying your location has similar issues.

    I have long thought that many folks think we can walk into a nice, big cave and pick up the goodies by the hundreds of pounds and walk away. That is why I wrote this thread, to let them know it's not that easy. And, not knowing if others face the same issues invited other views as well. Thanks for adding information.

  15. #15
    mx
    May 2010
    874
    370 times
    When my builder built the septic tank for waste material, he had his crew dig a hole 3 meters by 3 meters by 3 meters, and they put a concrete roof over it. The soil is so hard they did not need to put a liner in the septic tank. (Knock on wood!)

    Down by the arroyo the bank is maybe 20 feet high and has been there for generations. It is so hard it simply seldom caves off. Back in the Midwest, such a bank would be gone the first season.

 

 

Remove Ads

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Crazy lucky week - Gold, Gold and Gold from the beach
    By SusanMN in forum Today's Finds!
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: Aug 23, 2014, 12:39 AM
  2. Silver..Gold..Gold!..Gold!! Yep 3 Gold Rings in One Hunt
    By DrJoePrime in forum Beach and Shallow Water
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: Nov 05, 2013, 03:55 PM
  3. Replies: 33
    Last Post: Oct 28, 2012, 01:02 PM
  4. Replies: 0
    Last Post: Feb 16, 2012, 12:10 PM
  5. Replies: 29
    Last Post: Jul 22, 2006, 09:31 PM
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v4.3.0