What tribute meant

[piegrande]

My wife's church decided to have a Wednesday service at homes in our village, rather than in the village where the temple is located. Cleaning up for that yesterday, I ran into a print-out from the Internet in a pile of papers.

I have no idea where it came from, nor why I have it. Looking at it for the first time it looks like an Aztec demand for tribute from around 22 or 24 enslaved tribes. Most of them I have never heard of so I have no idea where they are.

It was a copy of Aztec drawings, with Spanish translations. The drawings listing the demanded tribute. I note gold was not on the tribute list!

Examples:

1 Once a year, 5 troxes of corn and 5 troxos of frijoles.

2. Every 80 days, 800 cargas (loads) of mouth perfume.

3. no quantity stated, but back carrier devices (think Aztec backpack) every 80 days.

4. 800 deer skins every 80 days.

5. 4000 loads of cal (quick lime) every 80 days. Cal is used for cleanliness and for building purposes. But especially for making tortillas from corn.

Plus more including many loads of cane for making arrows.

Now, the interesting demand.

Every 80 days, three prisoners taken in combat from the Tlaxcala; Huexotzingo or Cholula tribes.

Do I need to explain what those prisoners were used for? If so, I suggest, heart surgery...

If this list was for each separate tribe that would mean over 60 prisoners every 80 days.

And, that would mean constant war against the chosen enemies of the Tenochas.

If this list for each tribe, that would mean a major amount of time spent in each tribe making the demanded goods, plus fighting the chosen enemies.

No wonder they were willing to support Cortes!

 

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[kanabite]

do a Google search for "tribute role" from the middle section of the codex mendoza , i think you will find some answers there


or here just click this link http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=tribute+role+codex+mendoza&FORM=HDRSC2

 

[piegrande]

I looked at that first item, and was not able to read it. The top one referred to an old man in his 60's (watch it!) and the second one referred to an old woman, but I couldn't read any more. Just not big enough or something. I have to see if I can find my drawing on-line.

 

[kanabite]

I looked at that first item, and was not able to read it. The top one referred to an old man in his 60's (watch it!) and the second one referred to an old woman, but I couldn't read any more. Just not big enough or something. I have to see if I can find my drawing on-line.

here try this Codex Mendoza: Aztec manuscript Commentaries by Kurt Ross: Kurt Ross: Amazon.com: Books
its a good start if you really want to try and give the" picture thought" language a try . i think maybe it will help you .
good luck and i really do mean that .///bob


please make sure you get the english version and not the direct link i put up its in german (i think) , the pictures already get translated from nahule (sorry bad spelling) to old spanish , then to whatever.


i have a way bad internet connection and this forum is not being very nice to me tonight , but if you use your head it might help you , and that would make me very happy ,cause you seem to me to be one of the good guys .

please remember this is not the finale answer just a glimps from somewhere in the middle

 

[piegrande]

That does sound interesting, but the $135 for the English version is not possible right now, due to expenses in my annual trip back to the States.

I can see however that it may be necessary to budget it. Or buy the German version and hit Google translate a lot.

If it has the original Nahua (I think correctly spelled Nahuatl, but since few can properly pronounce that word, my wife is descended from Moctezuma I and really laughed when she tried to teach me to pronounce it, that tl simply does not exist, it is usually spelled Nahua which we can do) or Old Spanish, that would be a piece of cake.

 

[Corporate Investigations]

Hello Piegrande

In regards to tribute I might have very interesting document that you might find very interesting indeed.


If your wife can prove beyond doubt that she is descendant of Royal line of Montezuma she might be legally entitled to the compensation that was given to the descendants of Montezuma via tribute. There was technically, it appeared no grandfather clause so it was tribute ongoing descendants. As long as descendants lived they was entitled to yearly compensation tribute payment from the Spanish Crown. Since history and wars have interrupted those payments you technically should be legally entitled to them plus accrued interest owed on the interest.

As the original deal was brokered by the Spanish Crown, the Spanish Government are in effect are the modern inheritors of the old Spanish state and Crown so therefore liable to full fill the old Spanish state liabilities. This tribute was extracted from Indian communities silver mining via Spanish control to make payments to descendants, and was made to at least 1728. Therefore if payments have not taken place from that date when 4000 peso per year payment. They technically have defaulted in regards to compensation tribute payments to Descendants of Montezuma. At current rate 4000 peso's per year would today tally somewhere near 1148000 peso not including interest and accrued interest on the amount owing.









Arnedo de Marín, Ambrosio. Manuscript, signed: “Tres quentas de cargo y datta, desde 1o de maio de 1726, hasta fin d agosto de 1728. Que son dos anos y un tercio de obra.” Mexico: 1727–28. Folio (32 cm; 12.5"). 48 pp.

• Arnedo de Marín was the accountant of the Inquisition in Mexico and the collection agent of the Conde de la Enjarada. He here gives the required accounting of income and expenses of the encomienda of the Conde de la Enjarada, Bernardino Carvajal Monctezuma y Vivero, and the collection of the share due to the Crown and now in the coffers of the Holy Office awaiting shipment on the Serrano fleet. The encomienda in question was located in regions of Metepeque and Tacuba.

Even as late as the 1720s the encomienda seems to have been generating at least 4000 pesos per annum for the conde. His bloodline included as ancestors both Tezozomoc and Moctezeuma II.

Provenance: Maggs, Bibliotheca Americana, part IV, 2912.

Amy

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Right on Amy, hi to hubby.

 

[piegrande]

It is most likely that most of this village is descended from the Moctezuma's, but Moctezuma I, not II. I's daughter was married long enough earlier that her son was cacique when Cortes entered Tlaxcala.

But, the big issue was an event about 90 years ago, called a Revolution. All those old rights and obligations were canceled with blood shed.

Spain also granted nobility with income to the descendants of Moctezuma II. Find the book Moctezuma's Children and it carries the info down to the current period. They were given money until their own Spanish revolution. No more. But, those descendants continue to apply.