Randy Bradfords Montezuma Presentation: The Video

[Randy Bradford]

Randy Bradford's Montezuma Presentation: The Video

OK, for those that are intersted, this is the video of a presentation I did on Montezuma's Treasure last year. Just couple of things:

*It's kind of long, so be warned, it clocks in at around 1 hour and 45 minutes.

*We did this outside, so there is some sound interference from wind and people digging in their coolers. Overall it's much better than I had expected given the circumstances.

*This was intended to be a presentation done with projected images. The sun was down but remaining light prevented the projector from working effectively. We compromised with a "gather around" and power point presentation on a laptop.

*The folks with the Ancient Historical Research Foundation were kind enough to put this together, film it, edit it and post it. They have worked the power point into the presentation so I think most of you will still get a real good sense for what I was doing if you have the stamina to sit through it all.

As always, I welcome constructive feedback and for those that listen and watch I hope you enjoy! Big should out again to the AHRF who were kind enough to support this endeavor and who will hopefully be doing the video package for my upcoming presentation on the LUE map/treasure.

 

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[Crow]

Hello Randy

First of all well done. You passion for your topic really shows through. Pity about the sound and interferences with but top marks for handling the conditions. I know from doing presentations myself it can be intimidating for many but you handled it well.

It was however about 45 minutes too long. Its hard when you want present something with so many details yet beset with time constraints. An hour at the most even then it is pushing it. You would of been better to have the presentation in two parts or edit out less more important details. Its usually better if you get the questions after the presentation rather than being interrupted as it upsets the flow through the presentation. So it is good to allow time for questions.

Still there was a lot of aspects I liked about it. And best of all you presented the points in a neutral way not pushing an agenda.

Once again well done

Crow

 

[Randy Bradford]

Thanks for the feedback Crow. It was the first time I had done something like that so it was a great learning experience. Defiantly agree if I did it again I'd work harder to keep it closer to the one hour mark. My goal was pretty much to share everything I had, I think I'd be more selective and simply leave in things that I had information about. I actually glossed over a lot in this if you can believe it, bu I guess that's what books are for.

I'm going to be doing a similar presentation on the LUE in about six weeks. My hope is to take the things I learned from doing this presentation and provide a better, more polished experience.

Randy

 

[KANACKI]

hola

I agree with Crow.

Randy you will improve with each talk. I look forward to your next presentation.

kanacki

 

[HappyTrails55]

Nice Music, Very Relaxing, just about nodded off at the beginning, hee,hee, Good Presentation although there was a lot to be desired about the sound, people, kids coughing, crackling noises etc.., I see you've omitted some of the Localities (probably to save time) although it was a yawning bit too long, I certainly enjoyed it, although I do know from my personal perspective, everything you talked about......I'll give you a Thumbs up on it regardless of the omissions and other stuff...Darrell, let me know when Your Book is Available, you know......

 

[Randy Bradford]

Darrell, do you think I left anything significant out? I really was trying to keep it as brief as possible and realized a lot of the sites I had leads to had very little information on. Often I only had a couple of sentences about many of the sites. I know this has been a project close to your own heart...if I glossed over something important would love oyur feedback on what it is and why...

Book...maybe sometime later this year, tied up in a couple of other things until June.

 

[lilorphanannie]

For what it’s worth ,there is an article published in a national archeological magazine by researchers at the department of investigations in the historical archives at the national museum of anthropology in México city that give rather precise directions as to the location where Moctezumas treasure was hidden. And that location is in the country of México, in the state of Tamaulipas. The conclusion drawn by the researchers that the treasure is so deeply buried that it will never be cost effective to undertake an expedition. Furthermore, any Aztec treasure is property of the nation of Mexico. There was a brief and superficial comment that appears to reference that article in English published in Charles Kenworthys book ‘Unfound Treasures of Mexico”. And although some external sources question it, as with almost anything that comes out of this country, there appears to be little doubt as to the veracity of the original documents. The pieces to the puzzle fit perfectly and the site is in a series of caves in a long canyon just north of what are pre Colombian ruins that were an ancestral home of the Aztecs predecessors and a summer home retreat of sorts to the current Aztecs of Moctezumas time period. I regognize that there are many possible Aztec treasures but for those of us that have access to information about Moctezumas treasure all indications are that it is located in Mexico.

 

[Randy Bradford]

I'd love more information on that article...date of publication or anything that would help me pin it down so I can review the article. Sounds fascinating.

 

[lilorphanannie]

i would be happy to try to find that article , but im not sure how to go about it. it was published in spanish in a mexican archeological journal about thirty years ago. what i remember was the trail that was used leaving mexico city and heading north on the east flank of the altiplano became the camino real that the spanish used after their arrival which makes perfect sense. the ruins are called moctezumas balcony or lookout in english, which is just outside of the city of cuidad victoria tamualipas , the lake in question is called soto la marina. i cant remember the name of the canyon but its directly in front of moctezumas lookout. the caves that fit the description are at the head of that canyon. we were mining a serpentine deposit in the canyon and there were a small library of books about the area in our encampment, which i read.the magazine article was about the document that gave directions to this site.

 

[J.A.A.]

Lilorphanannie-
I'd love more on that article as well if at all possible. Anything you can find would be appreciated. Either way, thank you for the info already given.

All the best-
J.A.

 

[J.A.A.]

Lilorphanannie-
Did you have an opportunity to investigate the canyon further, looking for either the treasure itself or just further clues as to the voracity of the article? Just curious.
Again, all the best-
J.A.

 

[lilorphanannie]

i only made these comments because i live and work in the country of mexico in mineral exploration. A lot of treasure stories parallel my exploration work and many of the people ive worked with are highly educated well informed mexican nationals. Some know their countrys history very well. i comment only because i never see these stories presented from the mexican perspective. I personally have no interest in lost treasure with the exception of lost mines and only then a few very special ones. I make these comments only with the intention of helping ,if its any help at all. the canyon is immense. i do a lot of prospecting and know how to explore properly. off the top of my head id say if you cant afford to spend at least six weeks in that canyon its not worth the trip. Someone in our group had the articles, there were more than one . I asked to see them after he told me that we were in the canyon where Moctezumas treasure was secreted . I remember them as being written by archeologists associated with the research department of the national museum. i jotted down some of the comments in my field notebook. Thats what ive mentioned above.

 

[piegrande]

This brings up the same issues we have discussed in the past. For example, why would they take the treasure to any place well knowing they could never get it again?

And, how do we know that different Emperors didn't have an equal treasure?

In the case of my theory, it was high on the list if they found another place of high probability, that would weaken my case.

And, I am not going to easily give up on the possibility that a bogus location was given to mislead anyone from finding it.

 

[piegrande]

Thanks for the warning on an hour and forty five minutes. That will take special scheduling even for a retired person.

For example, tomorrow I have three free English classes to teach for local poor kids. One class after finishing Laubach asked for something on computers. I couldn't find much after a basic orientation so I started writing my own materials since I have a strong computer background That drifted into teaching some very basic programming stuff. three simple programs in Qbasic; then the same programs in C++ and Java.

While I have a strong computer background it was not as a programmer. So, at times I really have to hustle.

I have around 18 total students, only four or them male. My wife asked me why I had mostly girls and women. I smirked and told her, "strictly coincidence." But the real reason is the girls have much more ambition.

 

[Randy Bradford]

Work it into your schedule when you can...despite your disbelief I'd love your feedback...

 

[distribuidorUSA]

Your leads are interesting Randy...I hope you're onto something.... my leads are not bad either... Wish you the best of lucks..

 

[lilorphanannie]

it think one of the biggest errors i modern treasure hunting is the inability to think with the mindset of another time and place. it is a great error to apply modern logic to concepts that simply didnt exist. the gold posessed by the incas , the aztecs were not held for wealth or greed, but for chiefly religious reasons. the incas threw tons of gold into the depths of lakes, and the aztecs are on record as doing similar things to dispose of their ornaments.another concept hard for modern people to grasp is that of time and energy. i have a documented case of a mine here in mexico where the enslaved indegenious mine workers rebelled ,threw the owner into the mines deepest depths wit all of the extracted gold wrapped in cowhides and completely backfilled the mine. an effort that took six months to accomplish. i can list many other references.//// the article i mentioned earlier appears to be in a scientific journal that is published as well as a monthly magazine available to the public. i have not looked for the article as it will take a lot of time and thie subject is not of personal interest . they now have a website, the periodical is called arqueologia mexicana.

 

[lilorphanannie]

I make these additional comments only with the desire to help people be successful in their search for treasure. So the following is the formula I go by and that of successful treasure hunters I have known. The first rule of treasure hunting is to verify that the treasure did in fact exist. If you cannot get first hand data to confirm that assumption you are wasting your time. The second rule of treasure hunting is to prove that the treasure has not been found. Once that has been proven then you begin with your hypothesis and develop a search plan. If you don’t have funds for an adequate search, once again you are wasting your time. And then the difficult part, the recovery, legal control and disposition of the find. If you can verify that a treasure did exist you are one of the lucky ones. That’s why 99% of the treasure finds are in the ocean. There was a shipping manifest. Ad 99% of land treasures are found by accident. Also there are many misconceptions as to the value and size of treasures. I see many comments as to tons of gold. First of all, a cubic foot of gold weighs over 1000 pounds. There were no vehicles able to support the tons of gold frequently reported. Some treasures report gold exceeding a country’s current national production. The gold extracted by the Aztecs was alluvial placer gold from rivers. The process was slow and the fine grains were stored in the hollow quills of feathers. The objective was for eash individual to fill up a quill per day. As there were many skills in their community there were a group of specialists that swam underwater to pull up sand bearing gold. All of this and production is recorded. Gold was desired as it was the color of the sun and consequently being the most malleable and ductile metal lent itself to the fabrication of religious ornaments. These were the reasons, not to buy a penthouse in Beverly Hills and a Ferrari. As Christopher Columbus himself stated, we have an illness here for which gold is the only cure,. Another misconception is the richness of mines, for my research the tons of gold frequently reported were tons of ore not tons of metal. There can be occasions where one hits spots in mines that produce many ounces per ton, but the average ore grade from records available from as early as the 1500’s indicate average values of grams per ton. Silver was an exception and 5 to 10 kilos per ton was not uncommon. The indigenous peoples of Latin America never mined hardrock gold or silver, only placer. The Spanish introduced hardrock mining. The Spanish weren’t bad people nor were the Jesuits. Only doing what their governments and religions requested. In essence buying a stairway to heaven you could say. It is unfortunate but they were convinced that the indigenous people were sub human at least until Christianized. Our own acts and beliefs may be equally criticized some 500 years down the road, perhaps no justification but some understanding. The friars who wrote the reports to send back to Spain commented upon visiting certain mines the stench and difficulty of stepping over the corpses thrown outside the mine to gain entrance to the workings and the description of how humane Pissarro was when he gave orders to amputate the right hand and foot of all of the indigenous men to keep them at bay, and for the soldiers to impregnate the indigenous women, to begin to humanize the race and hence the origin of the mestizo people. We cannot make judgement for these actions based on modern morals and ethics, it would not be fair. And today we still live with atrocities that our own convictions seem to justify. So take these things into account in your searches and expectations. These are the results of my personal research and response to many of the disparities I seen in some of the commentaries. I also find it odd that so many of these treasures are in the commentators own back yard. If we accept these comments and follow these procedures the grim truth is there are very few realistic and viable treasure hunting possibilities. But what is better to make this realization or to spend your lifs energy following a pipe dream. I have found as one of the best sources for treasure leads are from church records and especially confessional declarations of wealthy ranchers and convicts.

 

[H-2 CHARLIE]

ilorphanannie ... have you personally seen any true pcs from the Aztec hoard found at any time ?

 

[lilorphanannie]

pictures no , the real thing in person ,yes. but from tomb findings done by mexican archeologists and at the anthropological museum. also farmers who have found pre columbian atrifacts on their property. when you say the aztec hoard im assuming you are refering to the one known by americans as moctezuma treasure , that i have not seen and noone else has either i think. the relato states they marched 43 days north on a known trail until they arrived at a great lake then marched 4 days due west into a canyon with a series of caves and peaks 7 caves and 7 peaks. which is at the head of a canyon and there are pre columbian ruins at the mouth. this is a document that is in posession of people and the museum i mentioned above and supposedly has been authenticated. that was the gist of the article and conclusions of the archeologists.