has montezuma's tomb been found ...?

[Old Dog]

[quote=bob123 ]
POSTSCRIPT: Here is a topo showing the location of Montezuma Head, the site associated with the legend of Montezuma being entombed in Arizona:
http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?lat=...G&size=l&s=500
[quote]

all good pionts of research . but have you considered the fact IMHO there was 3 montezuma's . and you are very right but the treasure of montezuma was said to be sent by montezuma ...i asume he did not take it him self ..the acount stated montezuma's son and 3000 of his men took the treasure northward and when montezuma was in tombed is not known .. he could have been put in the tomb days or weeks or even longer after his death and this would make sence if a mummification had been done wich this is a king , and it would be very unlikely that he was not mummified. in fact i would be totally shocked if he was not ...and if the stone tablets main reason for being made was to piont out montezuma's treasure or tomb with the under standing the chruch in santa ana had some part in this ,,,if not to just store the stone tablets ,it would make little to no logic for the stone tablets to havebeen made in the frist place yet we know for a fact the stone tablets are not fake and were made by a very skilled map maker ...in a spainish scale of messurement of vara ...300 mile distence i spoke of was between santa ana and the supersititionmts ..and you are correct it is a little of 1200 miles from mexico city . yet how far Aztlan was from mexico city is a matter of how far would you go to get away from the black death if it broke out in your home land ...IMHO it has little to do with the distence it self as much as it was to take the king back to his home land , and what better way to hide him then to take him to a place few knew about . its much the same as the legend of AZtlan being in the supersitition mt , this maybe the true reason Aztlan had not been found in the frist place ...

what leed freddy crystall to beleive the chruch stone tablets led to montezuma's treasure ....the chruch in santa ana did , thats where these stone tablets came from ...the same location the treasure trove list of tayopa came from ... and one acount of the massacre fits the discription of the massacre in the superstition mts ...

i totally under stand what you are saying Oro and i agree with the fact this is some distence from mexico city ...yet this distence maybe the only think that makes people beleive it was near mexico city and few would beleive it is were it has been found at this site #1

you can miss led people to beleive its near mexico city . its hard to move the mts them self ...

if there is confussion its not over where the sites are .. its who told who and why they were misled to beleive something that was not true ....


its not proveing montezuma tomb is in the superstitions , its proveing this is Aztlan and chicomoztoc . the indain legends say montezuma was taken back to Aztlan .. see my piont .. his body could have been sent back and the tomb seal at any piont after his death ...and you got to ask your self i the acount said motezuma's son and 3000 of his men . dose this mean montezuma 's 2 son ...i beleive it dose , for two reasons , one the treasure could have vanished and been hiden and they would have had a week head start before cortez enterd the city the secound time .. and if they had a head start and they knew this land , they could have taken the treasure to the supersitition mt and then misled cortez away from the treasure tomb . and then went back and got montezuma's remains ... this would tell me there were some people still loyal to montezuma....

in fact when you atke a good look at the details you have pionted out they make my over all case stronger ...lol

if i am right the 3000 men marched almost the whole way none stop to the superstition mts stright northward threw the vally.....they knew this route north because their home land was north ... it would make almost no common logic for Aztlan to be say 500 miles north of mexico city . this would be very unlikely ... if sickness was why they moved south it would be far more logical that it would a 1000 miles or more northward . and the supersitition mt are in fact as you have just pionted out ...i think i owe you a steak ...lol

in fact i would be very shocked if this ways not Aztlan , it would make good common sence if it was ...the idea 7 tribes would move south and go a few hunderd miles and then set up a new home land is foolish , i beleive it would have had to be at lest 25-30 days away and i find my self agreeing with CJ the secound time this week . i must be going crazy ,,,lol

you would have to take into acount these men were most likely the royal guard and would have been in good condition to make this trip with weight ...most likely not takeing common gold ore . it would have been the kings treasure .only .. the most valueable items ....i think this is part of the reason cortez was so pist it was gone ...

no ,IMHO Aztlan has been found and we should take a better look at what has been found at these sites ,, because they do in fact logically fit the legends better then any other site before them ...

the real question is are we going to talk about it the rest of our lifes or are we going to prove it ....if you look at the facts , one must prove the other , aztlan , chicomoztoc and motezuma's tomb has to all be in the same area .. i have pionted out a logical area that fits all 3 site , i dont think anyone else has ever done that !

many have thoeries to where Aztlan was . but it must fit all 3 of these legends to be the real Aztlan , i think cj made a good controlled guess ...and i do agree , 30-35 days away would be about right

they hide the treasure and then sent 3 groups of men west north and east to mis led cortez on a wild goose chase ,and then went back for montezuma after cortez was gone ...it worked like it was planed to happend this way ...

we dont know how the santa ana chruch found out about these sites , and tayopa ... there are some details still missing ... was the guadalupe de santa ana chruch the sister chruch of the one in the supersitition mt... if i am right and the massacre acount of tayopa is the same massacre in the supersitition mt then there was a chruch in the superstition mts . and the remains of what could be a chruch i found , could in fact be the same chruch , in the same area as all 3 sites ...this would make 6 or 7 legends that all fit this area ....and these 3 sites ....

Yea about them traveling northward i heard someone else claim that they were sarrying idols and had some battle with the spanish and ended up in modern day colorado the guy who told me didnt have all the facts but its still a thought to put into consideration.
-bob

HI Blowman,
It has been a short while,
Thanks for coming back so quickly.
Nice to have you.

Btw...
I made $100 on a bet. knew you couldn't stay away.

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[Gossamer]

yes.. BB, I'm delighted to see your posts!!!
I hope this all finds you well and ready to rumble..
Janiece

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Gossy luv: hi, welcome back & a discrete ? smooch. What ever happend to the experiment?

Don Jose de La Mancha

[cactusjumper]

bb,

Welcome back.

all good pionts of research . but have you considered the fact IMHO there was 3 montezuma's ."

Can you tell us a little of the history of the third Montezuma?

Thanks,

Joe

[Oroblanco]

HOLA amigos,

BOB123 are you Blindbowman? If so, there are a couple of threads that came up while you were absent, that I think you would find interesting. I will post the links if you are back.
Oroblanco

[Gossamer]

Gossy luv: hi, welcome back & a discrete ? smooch. What ever happend to the experiment?

Don Jose de La Mancha

Hello Don Jose! (discreet smooch back)
The experiment actually went well, but the person I worked with could not commit further, because his life barged in. LOL, he was the only one that went exactly according to protocol, which was interesting. I would have liked to pursue it further, but it takes a commitment to time. And who has that... lol.
Janiece

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HI LUV: Hmm I thought that i was going according to your protocol? sigh

Don Jose de La Mancha

[Gossamer]

The RV I have studied is military in its execution. I know that unless you surrender and do exactly as the RV coach requests, you won't do well. It is also very time consuming.
So with that in mind, most didn't get past the first instructions.
Janiece

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HIO Gossy Luv:
Does having the same dream three nights in a row as a teen age'r, then having all phases of it gradually come true count? Plus many, many other thingies equally unexplainable come true ? this includes some that were involved in the finding of Tayopa.

Don Jose de La Manchca

[Gossamer]

HIO Gossy Luv:
Does having the same dream three nights in a row as a teen age'r, then having all phases of it gradually come true count? Plus many, many other thingies equally unexplainable come true ? this includes some that were involved in the finding of Tayopa.

Don Jose de La Manchca

No, Don Jose it doesn't pertain to any of the psychic/dream/mystical practises at all. It was developed by the military and its execution is very regimented.
Having said that... I would love to hear about your dreams!
Janiece

[Eugene Martin]

Dear CubFan64;
The dangers associated with mistranslations are great and it would certainly behoove the well rounded researcher to perform their own translations, as much as they are able to, that is. There exists countless examples of mistranslated works and I am sure there will be many more to come.

Please bear in mind that, using our current language, English, we are able to express over 10,000 different emotional states, whereas in Latin we can only express around 500 and in classical Greek a mere 100. This is where problems typically arise. One should never use an emotional state to translate a document where did not exist previously. For a good example, we can use the Lords' Prayer, which was originally written in Greek and later translated into Latin and studied by legions of Roman Catholic theologians. Then, in a fit of reform, the prayer was translated into English. It was mangled beyond belief during the Latin-to-English so well translation and I use this prayer as an example only because practically everyone knows it by heart:
Pater noster, qui es in caelis, sanctificetur Nomen tuum.
Our Father, who art in Heaven, hallowed by Thy name.
Our Father, who is in Heaven, sacred is Your Name(the name of God was so sacred that it could not be said aloud).
Adveniat regnum tuum. Fiat voluntas tua, sicut in caelo et in terra.
Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on Earth and it is in Heaven.
Your kingdom shall come, and your will shall be done, even on Earth as it is done in Heaven(There will be heaven on Eath and the dead shall rise and walk the Earth again).
Panem nostrum quotidianum da nobis hodie, et dimitte nobis debita nostra sicut et nos dimittimus debitoribus nostris
Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us.
For giving us our daily food, and forgiving us our sins while we forgive those who have sinned aginst us.(For the bountiful gifts which You have given to us, for the forgiveness of our sins and for giving us each of us a conscious, thus allowing those who have mistreated us to be forgiven)
Et ne nos inducas in tentationem, sed libera nos a malo.
And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil..(God does NOT lead us into temptation, that would be Satans' job. This mistranslation is a horrible butchery of the Latin text.)
And do not permit us to be tempted(by Satan), instead keep us free from evil(from Satan).

From the above bold faced translation, one can immediately read the untentional mockery of the Latin prayer, which was translated from Latin into English over the course of perhaps a week or so, by a handful of Protestant reformers. In their sincere attempt to provide an accurate translation, they did not take into consideration the context of the prayer, rather they attempted a word-for-word type of tranlsation. And because of their mistakes, for centuries countless English-speaking Christians have been reciting the prayer incorrectly.
Your friend;
LAMAR

Lamar,

I am amazed how you explained yourself, especially using the Lord's Prayer. I found that ironic for some reason? Can I ask your explanation of why it hasn't ever been corrected? I thought you were a priest, till I seen your post on exploitation of treasure sites. ha ha. can't say I think much differently, but I'm trying to be a, "christian", about it. Thank you for the interpretation, it was very enlightening. Look forward to hearing more.

[Oroblanco]

WELCOME TO TREASURENET EUGENE!
Oroblanco

[Eugene Martin]

Hi Oroblanco
Thank's for the greeting, I've been around, but don't post very often. I just like to read all the different threads and theories, but that interpretation by Lamar on the Lords prayer blew my socks off. The interpretation of it is so universal, everyone can understand the underlining point.

Eugene

[Leones Corazon]

Mr. Martin...how are things down south?
Haven't heard from you in a long while
and your web page is down i see?
Oil boom went bust up here...might be
headin your way shortly....from where
i came from in 2002...lol.

DW

[Eugene Martin]

Mr. Martin...how are things down south?
Haven't heard from you in a long while
and your web page is down i see?
Oil boom went bust up here...might be
headin your way shortly....from where
i came from in 2002...lol.

DW

Hello Corazon
It's good to hear from ya again. I'm sorry about your job. But we'll have another Zoner in the Zone again. Welcome back DW. We should get together for coffee when you get down hear.
Martin

[Furness]

Hello Lamar,

I don't post very often in fact it is a long while since i posted at all but i do have a query regarding your translation, from latin into english, i've put any changes from your translation in capitals, knowing nothing of latin i have no problems with accepting your translation, but only your old english into modern english.

you quote hallowed by thy name, we were always taught it as hallowed BE thy name, so can you confirm that BY is the correct latin to english translation,,

also next line on earth and it is in heaven,
once again we were taught on earth AS it is in heaven,
can you confirm that also,

Regarding the word hallowed, i think you will find in old english that it does not mean that it cannot be said aloud but simply the name is to be held in awe or venerated, not that it cannot be used or said aloud,

regarding lead us not into temptation, that is a double negative and is correct for old english, rather like agreeing with someone and saying to them you are not wrong,
they are saying if you see us being tempted please guide us away from the temptation, remove the word not and you would be correct but the word not makes all the diffrence to what is actually meant,

also thy kingdom come thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven,
can you explain where there is any refrence in the original latin or the translation to the dead walking again ?
i read it simply as god will return there will be peace and his teachings and wishes will be done on earth as they are now being done in heaven,

many thanks for your reply

furness