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  1. #81
    Charter Member
    us
    Apr 2007
    God's lap
    X-terra 70 ACE 250
    11,352
    8 times

    Re: Earliest source of the legends of the transported Aztec gold

    Those are some incredible pics CJ! I have always wanted to go up in a helicopter but thus far have not. Thanks for sharing your experience and photos!

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  3. #82

    Feb 2007
    West Monroe, Louisiana
    Ace 250, GTI 2500
    86

    Re: Earliest source of the legends of the transported Aztec gold

    I agree. Thanks for sharing them. I've never been to the Sups, but have spent some time in the high desert. Having more than a passing interest with the Dutchman, it's nice to see these high quality photos.

  4. #83
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    10,206
    838 times

    Re: Earliest source of the legends of the transported Aztec gold

    CJ posted in reference to both of you --->

    Turned 63 in February
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Sheesh still wet behind the ears kiddies, I have 22 years on you and can still outshoot, out run, out fly, out this and that, heheheheh. Seriously gentleman, I believe that I would enjoy a trip with you kiddies, if ORO would make the coffee. and djujice his speciality.

    Don Jose de La Mancha

    p.s. On second thought, I would rather have Cyangal
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  5. #84
    Charter Member
    us
    Apr 2007
    God's lap
    X-terra 70 ACE 250
    11,352
    8 times

    Re: Earliest source of the legends of the transported Aztec gold

    Sounds like we would need a LOT of Oro's coffee to keep up with ya!

  6. #85

    Jun 2007
    Dowsing rods
    180
    1 times

    Re: Earliest source of the legends of the transported Aztec gold

    The treasure at Victorio Peak is long gone, whatever the original "depositors" of that treasure-trove was. Almost 15 years ago a guy sent me the time lapse satelite photos of US Army equipment excavating Victorio Peak on an unbelieveable scale.Judging from all the equipment, all the earth that was moved, then back-filled in the whole operation took at least 40 men.The word was that it was a CIA operation(covert) using enlisted men, and the gold was spirited away to the middle east. A treasure-trove used for political ends. Believe it or not.I sent the man back his photos and asked him to kindly forget he knew me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Highmountain
    I've been looking for this documentation for 30 years, and frankly, the earliest mention of the parade appeared in treasure-hunting books/articles in the 1930's. This in itself is quite significant, but that's another story.

    Unfortunately, there was no mention of such an expedition passing through non-Mexica territory to North America following the demise of Montezuma. The oral traditions of a number of tribes were retrieved by the ethnologists (Mexican and Anglo) in later years, in detail, and nobody seemed to remember such a caravan of enemies passing through their territory and, as usual, demanding to be fed and supplied with additional women and carriers. Other such travels of strangers were remembered in detail (de Vaca, Marcos, Coronado, etc). This complete absence of testimony does not bode well for the legend.

    That said, I firmly believe that Chicomoztoc (Place of the Seven Caves) is located in North America and is somehow associated with the Cibola legends. IMHO, the Seven Cities may well be the Seven Caves and the reason we can't identify their location is because they are subsurface. I also feel that these locations are gold-rich - mines and/or storehouses, Victorio Peak possiblty being one of them, leaving six others that we don't know about. Of course, the history of the Seven Locations, pre-Mexica and most likely associated with Quetzalcoatl would be the real treasure here.

    Springfield


    Springfield: It doesn't relate precisely to your post, but it does indirectly, Samuel Cozzens, THE MARVELOUS COUNTRY: OR, THREE YEARS IN ARIZONA AND NEW MEXICO, THE APACHES' HOME. It was out of print almost a century, then re-published [and is still around used on the web for a cheap price], his descriptions of his 1850s visits with Mangas, Cochise, the Laguna, Acoma and Zuni.

    You would probably find his story of the Zuni/Montezuma ceremonies conducted in 1856, interesting even if they don't lead you to any new insights.

    I'm less certain than you there weren't traditions among the tribes concerning parties going north. But if there weren't I'd be willing to rationalize a few reasons they mightn't have persisted [or ever existed].

    One might be that the area once occupied by the Mogollon, Mimbres, Anasazi etc, wasn't immediately re-occupied following their having vacated the premises. So far as I'm aware nobody knows how long it was before other tribes took the tentative steps into an area where they'd have been snatched up and worked as slaves a short while earlier. Whatever tribes had resettled the area mightn't have had the social organization to remember what they might have later when things were more settled. Or they might have deliberately avoided any columns moving north to avoid being snagged and forced to fetch and carry.

    Probably the exceptions would have been the Zuni, Hopi, and Laguna. [The Laguna traditions of their past involve them having been left in the north when the remainder of their tribe left because they were too old, infirm, ill, or were otherwise unable to travel].

    Edit: If you're a patient sort you can get the Cozzens book free on-line as a sort of ebook:

    http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text...a;idno=AJA3616
    http://snipurl.com/26718 [quod_lib_umich_edu]

    Author: Cozzens, Samuel Woodworth, 1834-1878.
    Title: The marvellous country, or, Three years in Arizona and New Mexico.: Containing an authentic history of this wonderful country and its ancient civilization ... together with a full and complete history of the Apache tribe of Indians .../ By Samuel Woodworth Cozzens. Illustrated by more than one hundred engravings.
    Publication Info: Ann Arbor, Michigan: University of Michigan Library
    2005
    Availability: These pages may be freely searched and displayed. Permission must be received for subsequent distribution in print or electronically. Please go to http://www.umdl.umich.edu/ for more information.

    Print source: The marvellous country, or, Three years in Arizona and New Mexico.: Containing an authentic history of this wonderful country and its ancient civilization ... together with a full and complete history of the Apache tribe of Indians .../ By Samuel Woodworth Cozzens. Illustrated by more than one hundred engravings.
    Cozzens, Samuel Woodworth, 1834-1878.
    Boston: Lee and Shepard, 1876.
    Subject terms: Apache Indians
    Arizona -- Description and travel
    New Mexico -- Description and travel
    URL: http://name.umdl.umich.edu/AJA3616.0001.001


    [Samuel Cozzens author, born in Marblehead, Massachusetts, 14 April, 1834; died in Thomaston, Georgia, 4 November, 1878. He was a lawyer, and for a time United States district judge of Arizona. His published works include" The Marvellous Country" (Boston, 1876); "The Young Trail-Hunters Series," comprising "The Young Trail-Hunters," "Crossing the Quicksands," and "The Young Silver-Seekers" (1876 et seq.); and "Nobody's Husband" (1878). ~ www.famousamericans.net
    Cozzens visited New Mexico and Arizona barely in time to see new US Territories acquired in the Mexican War as they'd never be again. The Apache was more-or-less at peace with the white men. The Texas Confederates hadn't yet campaigned up the Rio Grande, causing Arizona to become a major conduit for men and materials. Gold hadn't yet been discovered in either of the two territories.Cozzens visited Tuscon, Tubac, Sacaton, Mesilla, Acoma, Laguna and Zuni at a time when they were still new from the US perspective. His descriptions of the people, the places and the times are well worth reading again and again. A grizzly bear attacks their mule in the Zuni Mountains. It must have been one of the last opportunities a mule had in New Mexico for such an experience. The book is loaded with that sort of thing. ~ Amazon.com]

 

 
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