Emergence of Pyramids in the Americas

[desertmoons]

Looking at the mystery of the Aztecs gold, I think its important to consider all angles and information. From a side trips, clues may be stumbled upon that apply to the greater mysteries. . With that in mind i have been thinking about pyramids and mounds lately.

Why and when did we in the west start bulding momumental pyramid like structures?
That is the topic for this thread.And yes wild speculation such as below is most welcome!

To get it started, it seems generally accepted the olmecs were the first pyramid builders. The ones with the giant "negroid heads". Their pyramids said to be more volcano shaped.

Following that ...trail it got me to thinking.. Nubian. Looking into it a bit more I found some interesting but definitely not conclusive information.

The kushites (nubians and negroid) had a capital of kerma. They conquered egypt for a short period, and used many of the same cultural motifs, large statues, pyramids. They conquered Eygpt within 100-200 years of the generally accepted emergence of the Olmecs.

Could this African kindgom have also shipwrecked or purposely landed a party in the New World? Could this be where new world pyramid building got its start? More research needed of course for example not even sure if they were a sea faring nation. But i could see the possibility of even a short trip down the west african coast going astray during storm season.
I will post more soon that will show why this idea caught my interest. Idle speculation but sort of fun to follow the thread to its end, whether good or bad,

 

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[Rebel - KGC]

Re: Emergence of Pyramids in the Americas...

HA! Remember, that ONE time, (NOT sure when...) South America AND Africa were JOINED (look at the "outlines" of EASTERN Africa & WESTERN South America...), ALL the way up USA... AND! The "continent" across the "little pond". MAYBE... "legends" of WHAT & HOW TO, were passed down. IS THIS, the "story" of ATLANTIS? HUGE "Pangea" broken up? AND! the "legends" became MYTHS, etc.? STARBUCKS!

 

[cactusjumper]

desertmoons,

The first pyramid built in the Americas, was in Peru. Caral is over 5000 years old.

Joe Ribaudo

 

[somehiker]

"Platform mound" in the Tonto Basin.A hub town of sorts.
And note the location opposite the gap.
They get higher at Snaketown to the south.
Regards:SH.

 

[zevoruko]

Here's an interesting line of thought (only basic speculation on my part) .... Bauhaus..... "form follows function".

What if the only reason why pyramids were built in similar ways is more a coincidence of engineering simplicity and not cultural exchange?

Put it this way... you want to create a big structure but you have no major engineering tools and you live in areas that are prone to earthquakes or rain or whatnot and all you have in your hands are illlimited amounts of rocks and quarrry?

People in the Amazon and south East Asia living near rivers and flood zones build their houses on top of pillars using trees. Their buildings are very very similar.... does that mean they had cultural exchange? Probably not. Yet they had the same needs and constraints and raw materials.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Hi Zevoruko, my friend: You are on it, my belief also. Some call it a simultaneous evolution, other a collective unconsciousness. I.E. a subtle form of telepathy. In any event, certain developments occur simultaneously over the world.

Don Jose de La Mancha el *Tropical Trampo*

p.s. A pyramid's sides are just about the max angle possible, without cementing factors, for reasonable stability.

 

[Cubfan64]

Here's an interesting line of thought (only basic speculation on my part) .... Bauhaus..... "form follows function".

What if the only reason why pyramids were built in similar ways is more a coincidence of engineering simplicity and not cultural exchange?

Put it this way... you want to create a big structure but you have no major engineering tools and you live in areas that are prone to earthquakes or rain or whatnot and all you have in your hands are illlimited amounts of rocks and quarrry?

People in the Amazon and south East Asia living near rivers and flood zones build their houses on top of pillars using trees. Their buildings are very very similar.... does that mean they had cultural exchange? Probably not. Yet they had the same needs and constraints and raw materials.

I agree with you too about the development of pyramid shapes for buildings and monuments. In very early days, it seems as though it wouldn't take long at all in an effort to build something upwards to realize that most structures would tumble down. At the point you look around at nature (hills and mountains) and realize what shape would be the most stable and thus is born the pyramid shape.

From that point on, different cultures simply expand and develop different and better ways to build them.

Sometimes the simplest theories are just "too" simple for some people

 

[cactusjumper]

Paul,

This documentary takes 49 minutes to watch, but for those who have the time, it's pretty interresting: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4092265217728346257#

Take care,

Joe

 

[FEMF]

Paul,

This documentary takes 49 minutes to watch, but for those who have the time, it's pretty interresting: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4092265217728346257#

Take care,

Joe

Thanks Joe! That's a lot of Light on the subject!
FEMF

 

[Springfield]

..... Sometimes the simplest theories are just "too" simple for some people

Great Pyramid "Simple" Facts:

Tropical Year or Calendar Year: The length of a base side is 9,131 Pyramid Inches measured at the mean socket level, or 365.24 Pyramid Cubits, which is the number of days in a year [9,131/25 = 365.24, accurate to 5 digits]. The perimeter of the base divided by 100 = 365.24, the number of days in a year. [9 131 Pyramid Inches * 4 / 100, accurate to 5 digits]

Tropical Year: The length of the Antechamber used as the diameter of a circle produces a circumference of 365.242 (accurate to 6 digits).

Tropical Year: The ratio of the lengths of the Grand Gallery to the solid diagonal of the King's Chamber times 100 equals the number of days in a tropical year. [(1,881.5985600 / 51.516461) * 100 = 365.242200, accurate to 8 digits]

Sidereal Year: The length of the antechamber of the King's Chamber times Pi = length of a sidereal year [116.26471 Pyramid Inches * 3.14159 = 365.25636 days, accurate to 8 digits]

Sidereal Year: The length of a base side at sidereal socket level is 365.256 Pyramid Cubits. [accurate to 6 digits]

Mean Distance to the Sun: Half of the length of the diagonal of the base times 10^6 = average distance to the sun

Mean Distance to Sun: The height of the pyramid times 10^9 represents the mean radius of the earth's orbit around the sun, or Astronomical Unit (AU). [5,813.235565376 Pyramid Inches x 10^9 = 91,848,816.9 miles]

Mean Distance to Moon: The length of the Jubilee passage times 7 times 10^7 is the mean distance to the moon. [215.973053 Pyramid Inches * 7 * 10^7 = 1.5118e10 Pyramid Inches = 238,865 miles]

Sun's Radius: Twice the perimeter of the bottom of the granite coffer times 10^8 is the sun's mean radius. [270.45378502 Pyramid Inches* 10^8 = 427,316 miles]

Earth's Polar Radius: The Sacred Cubit times 10^7 = polar radius of the earth (distance from North Pole to earth's centre) [25 Pyramid Inches * 10^7 * (1.001081 in / 1 Pyramid Inches) * (1 ft / 12 in) * (1 mi/ 5280 ft) = 3,950 miles]

Earth's Polar Radius: The Pyramid embodies a scale ratio of 1/43,200. The height * 43200 = 3,938.685 miles, which is the polar radius of the earth to within 11 mi.

Radius of the Earth: The curvature designed into the faces of the pyramid exactly matches the radius of the earth.

Equatorial Circumference of the Earth: The Pyramid embodies a scale ratio of 1/43,200. The perimeter of the base * 43,200 = 24,734.94 miles, which is within 170 miles of the equatorial circumference of the earth.

Earth's Volume: The product of the pyramid's volume and density times 10^15 equals the ratio of volume to density of the earth. [10,339,823.3 cubic cubits * 0.4078994 * 10^15 = 4.21760772 x 10^21 cubic cubits = 259.93 x 10^9 cubic miles]

Earth's Mass: Mass of the pyramid = volume * density = 10,339,823.3 cubic cubits * 0.4078994 earth density = 4,217,497. The mass converted to pyramid tons = 4,217,607.72 * 1.25 = 5,272,010 pyramid tons. Since the mean density of the earth was defined as 1.0, then the mass of the earth is 10^15 times the mass in pyramid tons = 5.272 x 10^21 pyramid tons = 5.99 x 10^24 Kg

Speed of Earth around the Sun: The Pyramid Inch times 10^8 = the speed of the earth around the sun, circa 2600 BCE

Mass of the Earth: The weight of the pyramid is estimated at 5,955,000 tons. Multiplied by 10^8 gives a reasonable estimate of the earth's mass.

Average Land Height: The average height of land above sea level for the earth is 5,449 inches. This is also the height of the pyramid.

The Light Equation: The height of the Great Pyramid, minus the height of the capstone represents one millionth the time it takes light to travel the mean radius of the earth's orbit around the sun (1 astronomical unit) using 1 Pyramid Inch equals 24 hours (mean solar day). [(5,813.2355653 - 103.0369176) /
10^6 = .0057101986+ days = 493.36116 seconds = 8 minutes, 13.36 seconds]

The Velocity of Light: With distance of one A.U. known and the transit time of light for this same distance the velocity of light can be found. [91,848,816.9 miles / 493.36+ seconds = 186,169.5 miles/sec]

The Sun's Parallax: The size of the earth as viewed from the Sun and expressed as an angle and generally taken to be 1/2 the diameter at the equator (Solar Equatorial Parallax) is 8.9008091 seconds of arc using 91848,817 miles as the mean distance to the sun and 3,963.4914 miles as the equatorial radius. The distance between the mean socket level and the height of the leveled bedrock is 8.9008 Pyramid Inches.

 

[Springfield]

Well, granted, the Great Pyramid isn't in the Americas, but some that are in the New World are pretty impressive work for guys trying to emulate mountains. The Teotihuacan complex, if you haven't been there, gives one a star-trek sort of feeling. If I'm not mistaken, the place is a scale model of our solar system. The submerged pyramid discovered under a lake in Wisconsin is interesting too - related to the massive copper mines in the region I believe. There was a whole lotta civilization going on in the old days.

 

[Cubfan64]

Springfield - when I said it was a simple theory, I was only stating that the pyramidal "shape" seemed to be a logical conclusion if one were to set out to build a structure upwards - and that it does emulate hills and mountains at least to some extent do you not agree?

If you look back at my comment, you'll note that I said something along the lines that the basic form (pyramidal) for a structure reaching upwards was then further developed and perfected as cultures developed.

I'm probably not explaining myself well.

 

[Springfield]

Springfield - when I said it was a simple theory, I was only stating that the pyramidal "shape" seemed to be a logical conclusion if one were to set out to build a structure upwards - and that it does emulate hills and mountains at least to some extent do you not agree?

If you look back at my comment, you'll note that I said something along the lines that the basic form (pyramidal) for a structure reaching upwards was then further developed and perfected as cultures developed.

I'm probably not explaining myself well.

Yes, I see your point. Whether the designs were intentional or natural, or whether the perfection of those designs advanced or declined as time went by, are both debatable IMO. But, as you say, it's 'logical' to assume that ancient man was more simple minded in his day.

 

[Cubfan64]

Joe, thanks for the documentary link. It didn't really say anything about why the pyramid formation was used, but it was still very interesting.

I sort of wonder how anyone (experts included) can nail down a "reason" for the existence and beginnings of a community (civilization)? The idea behind Caral makes alot of sense, but when you look at the theories arguing that warfare was the reason, how does one know whether the weapons, carvings, etc... were there from near the beginning of the community or later, or maybe even made by the "conqueror's."

I like archaeology and find it interesting, but it's definitely a difficult science to really understand sometimes - especially when so many individuals disagree with one another.

Anyways - it really was interesting

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Joe: You owe me the internet address of that 'BBC Caral documentary' or I will haunt you. You will never get any rest. I'll hound you into the ground.

Don Jose de La Mancha el *Tropical Trampo*

 

[Ellie Baba]

Check out Carl Munck,

Archaeocryptography

http://www.pyramidmatrix.com/bent_pyramid.htm

I had the opportunity to see his DVD's a number of years ago. If you can do the math you can verify every fact that he presents. Tons of documented info relating to pyramids around the planet.

Ellie Baba

 

[piegrande]

>>especially when so many individuals disagree with one another.

Over my 68 years of trying to sort through all the different opinions on every possible topic, I have developed a personal policy.

When experts disagree, I am as qualified to decide as they are.

This may sound arrogant, until you think it through, then it makes sense. If great experts have opposite opinions, then it really isn't very important who is right, and whatever suits me is good.

Many years ago, a science fiction short story poked fun at the archaeologists who assume everything primitive had a religious significance. Eons in the future when beings from afar visited the cold, dead Earth, the only sign of a previous life was a small piece of strange material, which had visual images of the ancient people on it.

They studied it for a very long time, noting the strange shape of the biped in the images, especially its head.

Finally, they admitted they would never understand the religious significance of the image nor the characters on the last few images, "T-t-t-that's all folks."

Living in a different culture, I have learned that the human drama is the same everywhere and at all times. All the personality types and behavior patterns exist the same, the only difference is how a given society reacts to those things.

So, you can be sure in ancient times, people did lots of things for fun, even if they had to hide it from the leaders.

And, in ancient times, human migration at times involved a small band of rebellious young men who steal some girls, and in a year or two are a thousand miles away.

I might be all wet, but anything else would imply too drastic a change in human nature to be believable.

If you want to study ancient events, assume many of the same human characteristics you see today, but with different levels of science and technology and political systems.

 

[cactusjumper]

Don Jose,

"Joe: You owe me the internet address of that 'BBC Caral documentary' or I will haunt you. You will never get any rest. I'll hound you into the ground."

I think this is what you want, but all you need to do is enter "caral pyramids" in Google or your search engine, and you will get all the information you desire, or just go here: http://www.google.com/search?q=caral+pyramids&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&ie=utf8&oe=utf8

One of the places you will find the documentary is here:

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/the-lost-pyramids-of-caral/

Take care,

Joe

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

You may rest easy now Joe, You effigy will not be molested for 'this' reason, stillllllllllllll

Gracias

Don Jose de La Mancha el *Tropical Trampo*


.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Buenas dias mi amigo Big foot: You posted --> in ancient times, human migration at times involved a small band of rebellious young men who steal some girls
*************
I am curious, why in the world would they do that ??

Don Jose de La Mancha el *Tropical Trampo*