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  1. #261
    us
    May 2007
    Western Colorado
    5,871
    32 times

    Re: CPTBIL's mention of Aztec pictographs in SE Arizona

    Quote Originally Posted by cactusjumper
    There have been many times in my life when I have doubted there was much distance between ourselves and these ancient ancestors.

    Take care,

    Joe
    You beat me to it Joe, LOL
    I know sowe guys who resemble that remark.!

    Thom
    "Everybody dies"
    "But not everybody lives."

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  3. #262
    Charter Member

    Dec 2005
    Arizona
    5,299
    522 times

    Re: CPTBIL's mention of Aztec pictographs in SE Arizona

    Hi Thom,

    To be honest, I am not so sure that the beast is not lurking just below the surface in us all. In my life I have bumped heads with my Neanderthal past on a number of occasions.
    Most of those events make me shudder now, and they will never be forgotten. No doubt others have faced the same demons.

    Take care,

    Joe



  4. #263
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    10,220
    849 times

    Re: CPTBIL's mention of Aztec pictographs in SE Arizona

    HMMMM I wonder where my redhaired giants down here would fit in? Must get the sheep lovin cowboy on a mule to go get some DNA materiel.

    The last one was killed about 1900, just 35 airmiles east of here.

    Don Jose de La Mancha

    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  5. #264
    um
    Nemo me impune lacesset

    Jan 2005
    DAKOTA TERRITORY
    Tesoro Lobo Supertraq, (95%) Garrett Scorpion (5%)
    5,130
    660 times

    Re: CPTBIL's mention of Aztec pictographs in SE Arizona

    HOLA amigos,

    Cactusjumper wrote
    To be honest, I am not so sure that the beast is not lurking just below the surface in us all. In my life I have bumped heads with my Neanderthal past on a number of occasions.
    I think there may be a tendency to attribute primitive/brutish behavior of us modern people to some Neanderthal root, which is to ignore the very brutal, primitive roots of h.s.sapiens. What evidence is there of Neanderthals having conflicts with other Neanderthals, for example? We have far too much evidence of modern human brutality on the other hand. There is evidence of Neanderthals taking care of their sick, old, and injured - so even though their hunting methods were violent and "up close 'n' personal" (stabbing with spears) they do not appear to have been nearly so vicious and warlike as homo sapiens sapiens.

    Neanderthal hunting methods are one indicator of their mental capacity - they used spears for stabbing large game at close quarters, resulting in great personal risk (and often injuries and death) yet never seem to have made the "leap" to use thrown spears, like modern man did. They may well have thrown stones, yet did not make that seemingly simple connection.

    I am not trying to make too much out of this simple point, for modern Aborigines of Australia never developed the bow and arrow, apparently their technology worked well enough not to have any need of improved weapons for hunting or warfare. Perhaps Neanderthals, likewise, were successful enough using a stabbing spear so as to have no need of throwing the spear from a distance.

    Don Jose de la Mancha wrote
    HMMMM I wonder where my redhaired giants down here would fit in? Must get the sheep lovin cowboy on a mule to go get some DNA materiel.

    The last one was killed about 1900, just 35 airmiles east of here.
    I am speculating here, having never gotten an 'up close' look (yet) but considering their unusual height, I think it safe to rule out Neanderthals. Our mutual amigo Gossamer (whom I have not heard anything from in quite some time now, hope all is well with her) is also quite interested in your red-haired giants, has she been in touch with you about the possibility of getting a peek at them?

    One question, if it HAS to be mules, (no sure-footed horses available?) do you mind if I bring my own saddle? Thank you in advance,
    Oroblanco
    SUPPORT THE BEEF INDUSTRY - EAT BEEF
    "We must find a way, or we will make one."--Hannibal Barca

  6. #265
    Charter Member

    Dec 2005
    Arizona
    5,299
    522 times

    Re: CPTBIL's mention of Aztec pictographs in SE Arizona

    Roy,

    "Neanderthal hunting methods are one indicator of their mental capacity - they used spears for stabbing large game at close quarters, resulting in great personal risk (and often injuries and death) yet never seem to have made the "leap" to use thrown spears, like modern man did. They may well have thrown stones, yet did not make that seemingly simple connection."

    I agree!

    I believe the hunting methods of the Neanderthal were dictated by their skeletal, muscular and mental limitations. For those reasons, they were never able to adopt the lighter throwing spears of their neighbors. Their own spears were quite heavy and unsuitable for throwing any distance. They were not physically adapted to throwing anything with any degree of accuracy.

    No doubt, after trying to throw their spears and missing badly, they decided their weapons were best kept in their grasp. I don't believe they were built for running either so, at the least, they had enough intelligence to realize it was not a good idea to separate themselves from their best means of defense.

    They relied on their massive muscles (strength) to do their real thinking for them. Kind of, "if it doesn't fit get a bigger hammer" attitude. Letting brute strength do most of their important thinking seems a natural path to extinction and that may very well be what took place.

    It would not surprise me if any throwing of stones ended up being a two-handed affair. Something along the size of their heads might seem like the best bet for doing damage.

    Not much room for us to disagree here.......I think.

    Take care,

    Joe

  7. #266
    um
    Nemo me impune lacesset

    Jan 2005
    DAKOTA TERRITORY
    Tesoro Lobo Supertraq, (95%) Garrett Scorpion (5%)
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    Re: CPTBIL's mention of Aztec pictographs in SE Arizona

    HOLA amigos,

    Cactusjumper wrote
    Not much room for us to disagree here.......I think.
    You are probably right again amigo - but I do have another question for you;

    Why do you suppose no Neanderthal remains have ever been found in the Americas? Thank you in advance,
    Oroblanco
    SUPPORT THE BEEF INDUSTRY - EAT BEEF
    "We must find a way, or we will make one."--Hannibal Barca

  8. #267
    Charter Member

    Dec 2005
    Arizona
    5,299
    522 times

    Re: CPTBIL's mention of Aztec pictographs in SE Arizona

    Hi Roy,

    Beyond the distinct possibility and likelyhood that they never made it here, I would be prone to accept the best possible archaeological evidence, which means their range never exceeded Western Asia. No professional, that I know of, believes they ever existed in the Americas.

    Anything is possible, but I have never seen a single piece of viable evidence that supports the theory. Has something new turned up?

    In no shape to look into my books tonight, but believe I would find nothing to dissuade me from that opinion.

    Hope you and Beth are doing well.

    Take care,

    Joe

  9. #268

    Jul 2007
    ENGLAND & CALIFORNIA
    Eyes, ears and common sense
    910

    Re: CPTBIL's mention of Aztec pictographs in SE Arizona

    “Do you believe that a Neanderthal man could assemble a bicycle on a Christmas morning?”


    In all honesty it would be unlikely that he could have. However we have to take into account that a bicycle would have been something alien to Neanderthal man.
    I remember watching a documentary a few years back now, entitled Baca ? People of the rain forest. I recall these people who had no contact with the world beyond their own. The documentary maker had with him a razor and mirror to shave and these people were intrigued and watched in awe as the man shaved whilst looking at the image of himself in the mirror.
    To say these people were/are living a primitive life would be an understatement, however we must also consider that although they were/are living such a primitive existence that they are also modern human beings.
    I would venture a guess that a package containing all the parts needed to assemble a bicycle would remain a package of parts given to these people to assemble.
    That in no way detracts from the fact that they had indeed used their brain power in other ways. I seem to recall them mashing the roots of a plant that grew by the river and placing the mash into woven baskets which they dipped in to the river upstream of where the women would be waiting in the water to catch the fish that had surfaced as the water had been depleted of its oxygen content, sure beats a rod and line.
    I guess their lives have now been influenced in ways that will further change the way they live, if I recall correctly the producer gave these people Manchester United football shirts which they eagerly wore, prior to that they were completely naked.
    ( I guess if they knew who Manchester United are they would remove them with equal vigour)

    On the note of the apes and building rockets and moon landings we should consider that not so far back in our own history (lets say stone age man), we did no more than look up at the sky at night and only boggled at the big ball that changed shape.
    A few thousand years later and APEollo lands on the moon.

    How exactly did our “stone age past” begin ? Did we pick up a rock and whack a nut shell to get to the contents inside ?
    For if that was our stone age beginning then I believe we are witnessing our own past in the behaviour of some of our ape cousins. Stone tools being used by chimpanzees dates back over 4000 years. More recently a remote troop of chimpanzees has been discovered using many tools which include stones, straws, clubs and spears. These tools have also been used by other chimpanzees remote from each other.

    We are looking at relatively modern history and I would guess that the modern chimp although not as closely related to our ancient ancestors as we are, exhibits much more of the same behaviours of our ancestors than we do today.

    Evolution could one day put the chimpanzee on the moon in his own rocket, in much the same way as we evolved from cracking nuts with rocks.

    It would appear to me that the branch from our common ancestor Hominini, has put the chimpanzee in a kind of “******ation phase” of its technological advancement.



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimpan..._relationships

    “A University of Chicago Medical Centre study has found significant genetic differences between chimpanzee populations.”

    “Different groups of chimpanzees also have different cultural behaviour with preferences for types of tools.”

    “Chimpanzees make tools and use them to acquire foods and for social displays; they have sophisticated hunting strategies requiring cooperation, influence and rank; they are status conscious, manipulative and capable of deception; they can learn to use symbols and understand aspects of human language including some relational syntax, concepts of number and numerical sequence; and they are capable of spontaneous planning for a future state or event”


    “One of the most significant discoveries was in October 1960 when Jane Goodall observed the use of tools among chimpanzees. Recent research indicates that chimpanzee stone tool use dates to at least 4300 years ago. A recent study revealed the use of such advanced tools as spears, which common chimpanzees in Senegal sharpen with their teeth, being used to spear Senegal Bushbabies out of small holes in trees. Before the discovery of tool use in chimps, it was believed that humans were the only species to make and use tools”

    “Recent studies have shown that chimpanzees engage in apparently altruistic behaviour within groups, but are indifferent to the welfare of unrelated group members.
    Evidence for "Cimpanzee spirituality" includes display of mourning, "incipient romantic love", "rain dance", appreciation of natural beauty such as a sunset over a lake, curiosity and respect towards wildlife (such as the python, which is neither a threat nor a food source to chimpanzees), empathy toward other species (such as feeding turtles) and even "animism" or "pretend play" in chimps cradling and grooming rocks or sticks”


    “Chimps communicate in a manner similar to human non-verbal communication, using vocalizations, hand gestures, and facial expressions. Research into the chimpanzee brain has revealed that chimp communication activates an area of the chimp brain that is in the same position as Broca‘s area, the language center in the human brain”


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    You can't always get what you want, but if you try, sometimes you just might find, you get what you need- Mick Jagger

  10. #269
    Charter Member

    Dec 2005
    Arizona
    5,299
    522 times

    Re: CPTBIL's mention of Aztec pictographs in SE Arizona

    Roy,

    The line of demarcation for the Neanderthal appears to be the Ural Mountains......so far. To be more specific, Neanderthal skulls have been found in the Teshik-Tash Cave in Uzbekistan. What I find most interesting, is the obvious cross breeding that was taking place with the Mongoloid's, or the even more interesting theory that the Neanderthals were part of a number of peoples who actually became part of the Mongoloid race. This could answer the question of what happened to the Neanderthals.

    Just my opinions, for the most part, gleaned from the theories I have read about. Without going to far into the subject, "The Paleolithic Of Siberia" is my main source. With that being said, I could be totally wrong in my conclusions and opinions.

    Take care,

    Joe

  11. #270
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    10,220
    849 times

    Re: CPTBIL's mention of Aztec pictographs in SE Arizona

    Morning: On the Nazca lines and figures it always has fascinated me as to just how precisely they were laid out, especially the straight lines. Plus, the unique spatial visualisation needed. This was not from a primitive hunter society. I rather equate this with the source of the Piri Maps.

    Incidentally, what about the infamous 'out of place' artifacts that have been found? These alone, tend to flavor my thoughts against a simple land bridge or marine travel being responsible.

    Don Jose de La Mancha
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  12. #271
    um
    Nemo me impune lacesset

    Jan 2005
    DAKOTA TERRITORY
    Tesoro Lobo Supertraq, (95%) Garrett Scorpion (5%)
    5,130
    660 times

    Re: CPTBIL's mention of Aztec pictographs in SE Arizona

    HOLA amigos,
    Cactusjumper wrote
    Beyond the distinct possibility and likelyhood that they never made it here, I would be prone to accept the best possible archaeological evidence, which means their range never exceeded Western Asia. No professional, that I know of, believes they ever existed in the Americas.

    Anything is possible, but I have never seen a single piece of viable evidence that supports the theory. Has something new turned up?

    In no shape to look into my books tonight, but believe I would find nothing to dissuade me from that opinion.

    Hope you and Beth are doing well.
    I was not proposing that Neanderthals did reach America, as far as I know there have been no finds of any Neanderthals anywhere in the Americas. There are several interesting points to consider, assuming that indeed no Neanderthals ever made it across the pond.

    First, why didn't they reach America? The land bridge was intact during their time, and they were active big-game hunters so logically in pursuit of their quarry, it seems that they ought to have followed herds of Mammoths across that land bridge. If the mammoths could walk across, why not Neanderthals?

    Second, were Neanderthals incapable of crossing large water barriers? Neanderthals have been found in Britain, but not in Ireland. Britain had a land bridge to the continent, and (I think) Ireland did not. I don't know of any instances of Neanderthals ever hunting sea mammals, which is a key point for the logic/reason explaining why homo sapiens went to sea in the first place.

    This is only two of the questions raised by the absence of Neanderthals in various places, there are more.

    We are doing okay here, hope all is well with you and yours.

    Cactusjumper also wrote
    The line of demarcation for the Neanderthal appears to be the Ural Mountains......so far. To be more specific, Neanderthal skulls have been found in the Teshik-Tash Cave in Uzbekistan. What I find most interesting, is the obvious cross breeding that was taking place with the Mongoloid's, or the even more interesting theory that the Neanderthals were part of a number of peoples who actually became part of the Mongoloid race. This could answer the question of what happened to the Neanderthals.
    Based on the DNA studies, it looks like any cross-breeding between Homo Sapiens and Neanderthal must not have been too successful in producing offspring. Neanderthals are related to Homo Sapiens very like Zebras are related to Horses - a common ancestor, but the two species apparently are separate branches of a tree.

    Peerless you have covered the chimps and tool use very well, and hit upon one of the odd things with evolution as well, for why do we still have chimpanzees, seeing their obvious adaptability to new things? Is it a case of "arrested evolution" or is the truth about evolution far more complex?

    Real de Tayopa wrote
    Morning: On the Nazca lines and figures it always has fascinated me as to just how precisely they were laid out, especially the straight lines. Plus, the unique spatial visualisation needed. This was not from a primitive hunter society. I rather equate this with the source of the Piri Maps.

    Incidentally, what about the infamous 'out of place' artifacts that have been found? These alone, tend to flavor my thoughts against a simple land bridge or marine travel being responsible.
    Just a personal opinion here but a passage in Isaiah (40:3) is certainly suggestive of the real purpose of such strange lines and symbols in a desert. Of course that would hint at contact between ancient Nazcans and the Holy Land, which is sure to raise objections. The OOPARTS "out of place artifacts" you mentioned are quite a mystery, perhaps we are starting to unravel them? I don't think it good science for us to simply ignore those artifacts which will not "fit" with the accepted theories. Interesting that you link the Piri Reis maps, have you ever read the notations found on them? The origins are described in the notations, of course modern historians simply ignore them.
    Oroblanco
    SUPPORT THE BEEF INDUSTRY - EAT BEEF
    "We must find a way, or we will make one."--Hannibal Barca

  13. #272
    Charter Member

    Dec 2005
    Arizona
    5,299
    522 times

    Re: CPTBIL's mention of Aztec pictographs in SE Arizona

    Roy,

    I believe I understood your point and was doing my best to answer your question.

    I suppose I was trying to say......The Neanderthal line ran out at the Ural Mountains. Like you, I see no reason why they couldn't have made the trip across the Bering Land Bridge. My own, unqualified, opinion is that they were few in numbers by that time and no longer a people of massive strength, but a weakened race. They were diluting their gene pool in the larger numbers of other races. They could go no farther than the Urals.

    Were they the human equivalent of mules, or did they have an inherent destructive gene that slowly destroyed them......completely.

    Jerome Dobson proposed an intriguing theory, based on the physical remains that have been found by archaeologists. Chronic Iodine deficiency is suggested in the striking similarity between Neanderthals and cretins. In his opinion, this could explain the apparent ease with which Cro-Magnon swept aside their predecessors. While the evidence for this theory may not be overwhelming, it certainly helps to explain what has remained a bit of a mystery for many years.

    Could the Hobbits have been the true ending of the Neanderthals, reduced in numbers and physical size by centuries of abnormal thyroid hormone synthesis?

    I would be interested in hearing, or reading, a better theory.......based on the factual evidence, slim as it is.

    I fear my limited understanding of this subject may lead me into accepting many unfounded theories. That is why I try to use logic and simplistic reasoning to form my opinions. That's, pretty much, all I have to work with. On the other hand, that leaves me open to considering opposing ideas. A man has got to understand his limitations.

    You folks getting wet back there?

    Take care,

    Joe

  14. #273
    um
    Nemo me impune lacesset

    Jan 2005
    DAKOTA TERRITORY
    Tesoro Lobo Supertraq, (95%) Garrett Scorpion (5%)
    5,130
    660 times

    Re: CPTBIL's mention of Aztec pictographs in SE Arizona

    Greetings Joe <and HOLA amigos>

    I didn't mean to "put you on the spot" when no anthropologist has ventured to propose a theory explaining why Neanderthals are found only within the area they are found. Isn't it strange though, that these physically superior, highly successful big game hunters should have stopped in the Urals? Why are they found in Britain, but not in Ireland? <I should note here that anthropologists still hope to find Neanderthals in Ireland someday.> I wondered if you had considered this question about the range of Neanderthals.

    What is even stranger <if you think about it> is that earlier, less intellectual humans had spread considerably farther afield than Neanderthals. Referring to Homo Erectus specifically but also with other species. I don't have my books handy but one has maps showing the geographical areas where the various species of man have been found, and Erectus spread very far - all the way to SE Asia, with a considerably smaller brain than Neanderthals. Does that make sense to you, that a more primitive type of man should have spead farther afield than the more advanced type? It does not make sense to me, that people with brains at the largest of 1100 cc capacity should have spread so much farther than a people with brains averaging 1412 cc in size.

    I should note here that some have theorized interbreeding between Erectus and H. Sapiens occurred, but DNA studies have not supported this idea either.

    i do not understand why Erectus did not cross the land bridge either, as it was certainly in existence in his time, he reached at least near the area, and he was a hunter-gatherer. Logically, Erectus should have crossed into the Americas by land. They ate mammoths (like Neanderthals) and may even have built skin-covered boats to cross waters. Why are they not found in America? So far as I have been able to determine, no anthropologist has yet tried to answer these puzzles.

    Cactusjumper wrote
    I fear my limited understanding of this subject may lead me into accepting many unfounded theories. That is why I try to use logic and simplistic reasoning to form my opinions. That's, pretty much, all I have to work with. On the other hand, that leaves me open to considering opposing ideas. A man has got to understand his limitations.

    You folks getting wet back there?

    We all have our limitations, and all theories are just that - theories, we are free to accept and dismiss them as we see fit. There are many facts in human history which simply do not make logical sense to me, yet there they are.

    We have been blessed with some fair weather recently, even "wasted" a day to go see the Cheyenne rodeo with my boss and his family. If things continue to go well, we just may be able to head southwest when winter comes back to these parts. I hope the heat has not been too bad for you folks.

    Roy ~ Oroblanco
    SUPPORT THE BEEF INDUSTRY - EAT BEEF
    "We must find a way, or we will make one."--Hannibal Barca

  15. #274
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    10,220
    849 times

    Re: CPTBIL's mention of Aztec pictographs in SE Arizona

    Good morning my buddy ORO: In reference to brain cage capacity, never get side tracked in equating that to overall intelligence.. It may have been developed for other senses rather than intelligence.

    I remember reading not to many years ago, where a Grade "A" collegs student had a fatal accident. In the autopsy, it was found that he was an encephalitic, i.e. 80% of his brain cavity was simply water

    As for the Piri maps, yes, it was in reference to the older maps which he used for his reference, but by whom, and from space ??

    Don Jose de La Mancha
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  16. #275
    Charter Member

    Dec 2005
    Arizona
    5,299
    522 times

    Re: CPTBIL's mention of Aztec pictographs in SE Arizona

    Don Jose,

    "I remember reading not to many years ago, where a Grade "A" collegs student had a fatal accident. In the autopsy, it was found that he was an encephalitic, i.e. 80% of his brain cavity was simply water"

    My guess is that your memory is faulty here. You may want to seek another source for similar information.

    Take care,

    Joe

  17. #276
    Charter Member

    Dec 2005
    Arizona
    5,299
    522 times

    Re: CPTBIL's mention of Aztec pictographs in SE Arizona

    Roy,

    "What is even stranger <if you think about it> is that earlier, less intellectual humans had spread considerably farther afield than Neanderthals. Referring to Homo Erectus specifically but also with other species. I don't have my books handy but one has maps showing the geographical areas where the various species of man have been found, and Erectus spread very far - all the way to SE Asia, with a considerably smaller brain than Neanderthals. Does that make sense to you, that a more primitive type of man should have spead farther afield than the more advanced type? It does not make sense to me, that people with brains at the largest of 1100 cc capacity should have spread so much farther than a people with brains averaging 1412 cc in size."
    __________________________________________________ _________

    An explanation could be derived from Jerome Dobson's theory relating to "Chronic Iodine Deficiency". It might all boil down to abnormal thyroxine levels. While the Neanderthals had plenty of red meat in their diets.....almost exclusively, the possibility of an inherent inability of their bodies to process the ingested iodine could offer explanations for many of the mysteries that are attached to the Neanderthal.....Including your question.

    I believe evidence is mounting for the possibilities that Neanderthal interbreeding with other humans was fairly common. Once again, I am finding interesting parallels with the Hobbits.

    Just my unqualified opinion.

    Take care,

    Joe


  18. #277
    um
    Nemo me impune lacesset

    Jan 2005
    DAKOTA TERRITORY
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    Re: CPTBIL's mention of Aztec pictographs in SE Arizona

    HOLA amigos,

    Cactusjumper wrote
    An explanation could be derived from Jerome Dobson's theory relating to "Chronic Iodine Deficiency". It might all boil down to abnormal thyroxine levels. While the Neanderthals had plenty of red meat in their diets.....almost exclusively, the possibility of an inherent inability of their bodies to process the ingested iodine could offer explanations for many of the mysteries that are attached to the Neanderthal.....Including your question.
    The iodine deficiency is an interesting theory, but I have doubts that a whole species would be suffering from such a dietary problem. I would expect that if this were the case, the species would not persist for any length of time. Also, we are still learning the truth about Neanderthals diet, as in this article
    http://www.nhm.ac.uk/about-us/news/2...rn-humans.html
    <extract> Neanderthal diets were more like those of early modern humans than previously thought, according to research published today.

    I was rather surprised to read that Neanderthals had eaten shellfish, even sea mammals. I don't know enough of the Neanderthal diet to have an opinion on their iodine intake.

    Cactusjumper also wrote
    I believe evidence is mounting for the possibilities that Neanderthal interbreeding with other humans was fairly common. Once again, I am finding interesting parallels with the Hobbits.
    Well I am unconvinced of any successful interbreeding between Cromagnon and Neanderthals, since the DNA tests have shown we modern humans do not have any Neanderthal DNA in ours. No DNA does not mean there was no interbreeding, just that either few or no offspring seem to have passed on that Neanderthal DNA to us.

    Don Jose de la Mancha wrote
    Good morning my buddy ORO: In reference to brain cage capacity, never get side tracked in equating that to overall intelligence.. It may have been developed for other senses rather than intelligence.

    I remember reading not to many years ago, where a Grade "A" collegs student had a fatal accident. In the autopsy, it was found that he was an encephalitic, i.e. 80% of his brain cavity was simply water

    As for the Piri maps, yes, it was in reference to the older maps which he used for his reference, but by whom, and from space ??

    I do not equate brain size with intellect, as you know from our discussion of the Hobbits with their small brains. If brain size were the true measure, then Neanderthals ought to have spread further and been more successful than Erectus, right?

    According to the notations on the Piri Reis map, they were using maps that dated to the time of Alexander the great. After all there are ancient references to "Terra Australis" as a "mythical" continent at the south pole. I don't find that too shocking, except for the Antarctica landmass - we know it was still covered in ice in the time of Alexander. Or was it? Is it not possible that portion of Antarctica was free of ice circa 330 BC, and covered in ice since that time? Surely Antarctica has had fluctuations in the areas covered in ice. However the experts say (I presume based on ice cores?) that it was last ice-free perhaps 15 million years ago. There are theories like the slippage of the Earth crust as proposed by Hapgood and Hancock, which is interesting, and the Buache map has been used to propose that Antarctica was ice free between 40,000 and 6,000 years ago. If this is true, than an Ice-age civilization (call it Atlantis, Aztlan, Mu or whatever is preferred) could have conceivably mapped the region as a part of global exploration. This would be anathema/ridiculous to our academic community of course, but may be the answer.

    <For the curious, here is a site with images of the Buache map>
    http://www.anomalies-unlimited.com/Buache_Map.html

    Oroblanco
    SUPPORT THE BEEF INDUSTRY - EAT BEEF
    "We must find a way, or we will make one."--Hannibal Barca

  19. #278
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    10,220
    849 times

    Re: CPTBIL's mention of Aztec pictographs in SE Arizona

    Good morning ORO mi buddy: Apol for referring to you on brain size denoting intelligence, that should have been directed to El Cactus hopper.

    It has been proven, subject to our present development of understanding of intelligence, that mere brain size does not equate superior intelligence. Many portions of the brain are utilized for factors which do not lead to intelligence, but pure survival.. Therefor it is conceivable that despite the Cro guys/ gals having a larger brain , it is not necessarily an indication of superior intelligence.

    A crude example could be drawn by an intimate acquaintance. His hat size is 6 7/8, yet his IQ consistently runs between 145 ->160 Binet. The variation is simply how he feels at that moment and is often dependent upon an interpretation of the presented question. He easily passes any test that MENSA etc. presents.

    This can present a bit of evidence that our encephalitic college student, could easily have sufficient of the critical brain mass to pass scholastic requirements, which you must admit are getting lower daily. There were no remarks on possible motor etc., deficiencies.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    As for the Piri / Buache maps origin, if I remember correctly, in the opening of Genisis, it mentions that the world had been destroyed by GOD and a new one started with Adam & Eve. In many, many ways, this could explain those pesky OOPA, 'out of place' artifacts. but to simply insert them into the known time periods is mind boggling with it's counter indications. Sigh, wonder why my minds hurts sniff.

    Don Jose de La Mancha
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  20. #279
    Charter Member

    Dec 2005
    Arizona
    5,299
    522 times

    Re: CPTBIL's mention of Aztec pictographs in SE Arizona

    Don Jose,

    "I remember reading not to many years ago, where a Grade "A" collegs student had a fatal accident. In the autopsy, it was found that he was an encephalitic, i.e. 80% of his brain cavity was simply water"

    I assumed you meant that only 20% of actual brain matter was left in the cavity, because everyone's brain is 80% water. Therefore, all of our brain cavities contain that amount of water.

    Would you mind clarifying your statement?

    Take care,

    Joe

  21. #280
    um
    Nemo me impune lacesset

    Jan 2005
    DAKOTA TERRITORY
    Tesoro Lobo Supertraq, (95%) Garrett Scorpion (5%)
    5,130
    660 times

    Re: CPTBIL's mention of Aztec pictographs in SE Arizona

    HOLA amigos,
    Don Jose' de la Mancha wrote
    As for the Piri / Buache maps origin, if I remember correctly, in the opening of Genisis, it mentions that the world had been destroyed by GOD and a new one started with Adam & Eve. In many, many ways, this could explain those pesky OOPA, 'out of place' artifacts. but to simply insert them into the known time periods is mind boggling with it's counter indications. Sigh, wonder why my minds hurts sniff
    If memory serves, the destruction occurs well after Adam & Eve, as in the flood of Noah but I see your point. Of course I tend to think that the flood of Noah is one and the same with the flood of Deukalion, Gilgamesh etc as well as Atlantis, just recorded by different peoples. Historians like to view history as a linear development of human culture/civilization but there are reasons to think this is not truly the case.

    Science holds that brain size is "the" indicator of intelligence, which I disagree with but many studies and articles are available online and local libraries, such as

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0518172103.htm

    ...however clearly this seems not to hold true as we can see with Parrots, literally with "bird brains" yet surprisingly intelligent. <Maybe I am overcompensating here, due to some personal attribute? heh heh>

    Oroblanco
    SUPPORT THE BEEF INDUSTRY - EAT BEEF
    "We must find a way, or we will make one."--Hannibal Barca

 

 
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