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  1. #1

    CPTBIL's mention of Aztec pictographs in SE Arizona

    CPTBIL, Not trying to pry anything out of you, but your mention of Aztec pictographs near the AZ/NM/Mex border caught my eye. My family is from that very area and have owned/operated several cattle ranches down there. My grandfather and great uncle found, at different times, a Spanish sword (apparently laid in the crook of a tree, which subsequently grew AROUND the blade!) and a conquistador-type helmet. Both were given to the Univ. of Ariz. in Tucson. My grandfather personally told me about this and I doubt he ever lied a day in his life. My grandmother also showed me a newspaper clipping from the Arizona Citizen. Their discovery would have been somewhere in the late 50's to early 60's, I think. Anyway, I know the general area where they were found, and there's another anomoly that's there, but I haven't personally seen it yet. My grandfather told of a natural, vertical shaft going down into the ground. He said there was ALWAYS so much cold wind blowing up through it that he and other cowboys would throw their hats over the hole and they wouldn't fall down. They'd be blown up and out. Several years ago, I spoke to an old lady whose family still ranches down there. She confirmed this story about the hole, and put me in touch with her son-in-law, who is a world-class rock climber. I spoke to him on the telephone, and he too had been to the hole. In fact, he had rappelled down into it! The longest rope he had was 300', and he got to the end of this without hitting bottom or being able to see the bottom with his headlamp! I don't know how to get a hold of him anymore, but just by coincidence, my dad mentioned running into a guy who lives in Tucson. That guy's mother-in-law used to live on a ranch in the same area. My dad and I are going to go talk to her and see if she can direct us to the shaft. I should also point out that in the early 90's, my family got some mining claims in the same area. Assay results showed high concentrations of gold, but the type of thing that'd have to be smelted, not placer gold. We never really did anything with it because the claims were on BLM land and we figured the gov't would take whatever we found anyway. On the Aztec angle, I should also point out that many of the prehistoric Indian sites in So. Arizona, although they've been labeled Anasazi or Hohokam, have distinct ball courts, and parrot feathers have been excavated. It's not a popular theory in mainstream archaeology ("Baring Strait and south, by God!"), but it seems to indicate to me that Aztecan and/or Mayan connections are there. So, in short, I'd like to see if you and I are in the same area. I don't exactly know how to go about it, 'cause neither of us likely wants to tip our hand. What do you think?

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  3. #2

    Dec 2004
    4 times

    Re: CPTBIL's mention of Aztec pictographs in SE Arizona

    Interesting story. One issue you raise is that some so-called experts, may more correctly be called intellectual clowns. We must be skeptical of claims from such who proclaim answers to profound questions based on flimsy evidence. I have heard of an albaster egg discovered in the mid-west with markings exclusive to King Tut. Yet, the discovery of the egg pre-dated the discovery of Tut's tomb. This suggests that the ancient Egyptians may have traveled here also, possibly even mining gold. Certain sites attributed to native americans may very well be of Aztec origin. In the northeast a Spanish settlement, pre-dating Plymouth and Jamestown was discovered in New York. Also Celtic and Viking artifacts from this area debunks mainstream history. These things don't make print in the mainstream media sources, because they go against what we are taught and expected to believe. As THers, we must be open minded in our approach to solving mysteries. By they way, I thought someone should reply to your post.

  4. #3

    Re: CPTBIL's mention of Aztec pictographs in SE Arizona

    Well thank you for the reply. I couldn't agree with you more. I sometimes run across publications like Ancient American and am always astounded by the sheer amount of archaeological information that is out there but never really sees the light of day. It's like the scientists, for all their allegedly unbiased posturing, are "cherry picking" what raw details will support their personal views and discarding the rest.

  5. #4

    Mar 2003
    9 times

    Re: CPTBIL's mention of Aztec pictographs in SE Arizona

    "Unbiased & Cherry picking"
    Let me tell you!
    We found somemarks/writtings along the Rio Grande in New Mexico...
    Oh! That's not "writting", They were just sharping their spear points, etc..
    One of our photos got into the hands of a REAL Authority!
    In Fact! He was the world authority on...
    "OGAM" Writting!
    Seems that for all of these years "The Experts" were calling "OGAM" writting, Scratches!
    In fact one of them went as far as to say, the marks were from a plow!
    4' above ground!
    Seems that they didn't want to admit, that The Celts and others had been here, from about 500! BC! . That's 2500 years ago!
    2000 years before "Old Chris! " got here!
    AND! Had left their marks upon the rocks!
    They're unbiased!
    CptBil & Bugs

  6. #5

    Mar 2003
    9 times

    Re: CPTBIL's mention of Aztec pictographs in SE Arizona

    I am presently in Arizona!
    Would you like to meet somewhere and discuss a few ideas?
    I have a piece equipment that can get a person, already has, safely down AND! Back up!
    It has already done 515' ? in New Mexico!
    I am here! In Arizona !
    Just a short drive from "Rodeo" (NM, For those not familiar with the area) !
    I can be ready to go in a week!
    Let's meet and Let's GO!
    CptBil & Bugs

  7. #6

    Feb 2005

    Re: CPTBIL's mention of Aztec pictographs in SE Arizona

    Lucky dogs

  8. #7
    Feb 2006

    Re: CPTBIL's mention of Aztec pictographs in SE Arizona

    Cherry Picking! Oh man that is putting it mildly.

    Sadly it is very common for those who are supposed to inspire free thought and new ideas to do the total oposite in order to advance their own theories. Sadly I have seen the majority of those in History and Archeology among others to discount other theories that discount their own following.

    Like how the new world was populated! We even see it on this group. Have you ever seen people who follow the landbridge theory verses those who beleive say the Egytian theory go at it! Neither is willing to accept the others ideas and thus real information is discounted and lost.

    This also goes for artifacts and information like the toolmarks/writting. Rather than admit it is something unknown poof it is explained as something simple and discounted rather than examined further. One of the favorites, "It is beleived to have had a religious signifigance." ARGH!!!! that is the answer to give when they have no firggin clue.

    As for Aztec evidence in the US South West it is entirely possible. Those regions would have been within their range. And at the least would have had contact and influence since they did have a active trade and trail network.

    One must also consider that we know next to nothing about many of the peoples who lived in those regions prior to European Discovery, and even then it took time.

    And let us not forget the cultures who preceeded the Aztecs? The Ulmec, Toltec and there was another main group whom escapes me at the moment. All of which would have been the same basic people though which makes it quite possible. And then we also have the fact that their empire was toppled. And when empires fall segments of societies scatter which could be used when the Aztecs came to power as well as when they fell to the Spanish.

  9. #8
    Charter Member
    Jan 2006
    Houston, TX
    V3i/DX-1, E-Trac/X-1, Excalibur II
    19 times
    Metal Detecting

    Re: CPTBIL's mention of Aztec pictographs in SE Arizona

    There are a lot of OOP (out of place) objects. The elephant carving and glyphs of giraffes from the Olmec era in South America. The fact that the zodiac is identical in the middle east and South America (from way back), except for the substituation of local animals for some symbols.

    The one I like best is the confirmed presence of cocaine in an ancient egyptian mummy who died sometime BC. Coca only grows in the Andes above 6000 feet.

    People were crossing the ocean long, long before the currently accepted dates.

    The people who determine accepted history can really piss you off. They are tethered by their peers and how they were taught...if they go out of bounds they are marked as loonies and their grants dry up...the system sucks.

  10. #9
    Feb 2006

    Re: CPTBIL's mention of Aztec pictographs in SE Arizona

    You got that right Beep. As they say a mind is like a parachute. It only works when opened.

    And yes, saw something about the cocaine in the Egyptian embalming process.

    Or what about the petroglyphs in the SW of a Mamoth, although the sceintists claim it is impossible as they all died out prior to man. Heck, what percentage of ancient artifacts have been found? Abesnce of evidence works both ways.

  11. #10
    Feb 2006

    Re: CPTBIL's mention of Aztec pictographs in SE Arizona

    Well the thing is there are so many theories and once an the established profs get their little cult who follows their theory they refuse to allow any alternative idea.

    I mean it is possible that the same thing was developed in different parts of the world just as much as it is an influence from someone from that culture.

    And then there are things that are just common to all cultures.

    An example, just about every culture no matter where on earth has a "Great Flood" storey.

    As for comparing Aztecs to Egyptians well we have worship of a sun Deity, an advanced knowledge of the solar system and solar calendars, pyramids, mummification and let us not forget the Reed Boats.

    Reed boats made of papyrus are still used today by people living on the Nile, while the same goes for people living in and around Lake Titicaca in S. America.

    It is interesting to note the comparisons and see the similarities. And lets not forget enculturation where one group moves in absorbers other cultures and peoples and adopting some of their stories, legends and customs. And here is where the boom is to ancient treasure hunting!

    Legends and tales although fantastic often are based on a real event. And it is that event or actions that must be gleaned and used as the clue. Can we say Heinrich Schleeman and Troy?

    I would say one of the first places to look is of course in he old records, but also in the oral tradition of the region and pick up the local legends and stories. And then unravel the storey from there. A storey can lead to a clue of a location which can lead to another clue and so on and so on. It is all so fascinating.

  12. #11

    Mar 2003
    9 times

    Re: CPTBIL's mention of Aztec pictographs in SE Arizona

    Mr Adventure:
    In, What part of the country do you live?
    CptBil & Bugs

  13. #12
    Nov 2004
    849 times

    Re: CPTBIL's mention of Aztec pictographs in SE Arizona

    HI MR Adventure: Some Psychiatrists would say "The collective sub-conscious" thingie in that we are all tied together and do share thoughts, hence simultaneous discoveries in various parts of the world during the same time periods.

    Tropical Tramp
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  14. #13

    Jun 2006
    2 times

    Re: CPTBIL's mention of Aztec pictographs in SE Arizona

    Well, I agree the certified archaeologists try to keep all non-certified persons from being able to legally get their hands on known archaeological sites... but does Cptbil have any pictures or proof of what he 'mentions?' If we could see some inkling of what he's talking about, might we not have a better clue as to the markings being of Aztec origin or some other tribe, etc.?

  15. #14

    Mar 2003
    9 times

    Re: CPTBIL's mention of Aztec pictographs in SE Arizona

    I am going to "post" a photo on this forum !
    If ! :P I can get it sent from my other, a desk top, computer!
    It, the desk top, is having a problem(s) sending email!
    It rec's email, OK!
    I have trouble sending email out!!
    Anyone have any ideas ?
    I want to describe this photo before I send it ...
    The photo was taken from an airplane ...
    The plane flying above a small "mesa *" !
    The Airplane was flying @ 5000' , above the mesa!
    A "Mesa" for those who are not familiar w/western/spanish, is a hill/mnt, with a very flat squared off top, that runs it's lenght!
    On top of this "mesa" is a a "manmade" figure!
    This figure is roughly 350' long !
    It can only be seen from above !
    The original finder, was lead here, in & by, his search for Montezuma's Treasure Cache!
    The figure, is as you'll see, a perfect replica of a "Fox's Head" !
    Even to the colored tips of it's ears, and the "nose pad" !
    &, it's Perfect round clear eyes, etc ....
    The round circular area that makes up the Fox's "jaw" is where he, "the finder" , believes is where the treasure is cached!
    If you look, very carefully, you will see a faint trail coming up, from the canyon, on the right hand side of the photo!
    Don't look for some/a well marked, easy to spot , well used trail!
    This photo is from a height and of a trail that may be hundreds of yrs old!
    You are looking for a very faint, & a very thin,"white" line, on the photo!
    On the right hand side, coming up the side of the mesa!
    I am going to stop HERE!
    I don't want to present too much information, until you understand the situation. Let me know if you have any questions so far ?

    After which, I'll finish up!
    CptBil & Bugs

  16. #15

    Oct 2005
    NM/AZ/CA/Co/Utah & P.I. Tx.
    1 times

    Re: CPTBIL's mention of Aztec pictographs in SE Arizona

    Change that "Zero" to a "Xero" , Sorry !
    Cptbild & Bugs

  17. #16

    Jun 2006
    2 times

    Re: CPTBIL's mention of Aztec pictographs in SE Arizona

    I wonder if we could look up the mesa location on googleearth and compare your picture to get a good idea? I realize you woudn't want to really give the location away, but its another idea since you're having problems uploading the picture.

    I watched a special on the Nazca lines this past weekend on tv, and it showed there were 'geo' style glyphs even in the US, though smaller than the Nazca lines... that were made by indians... with various symbols of warriors and animals. CPTBIL, you might have found one of those, instead of a treasure cache marking... as 1) THEY ARE MOST EASILY SPOTTED FROM THE AIR 2) THEY ARE GENERALLY FOUND ON HIGH PLACES (I.E. MESAS).

  18. #17
    Nemo me impune lacesset

    Jan 2005
    Tesoro Lobo Supertraq, (95%) Garrett Scorpion (5%)
    660 times

    Re: CPTBIL's mention of Aztec pictographs in SE Arizona

    Hello everyone,
    I have never heard of Aztecs being linked to geoglyphs before. Geoglyphs ARE found in the southwest USA, such as these:

    The Blythe "man" 171 feet tall, near Blythe CA

    "Horse" or "Deer" (with a long tail?) also near Blythe CA

    Here is one (hosted in UK but along Colorado river) that the "experts" can't claim is a "deer"!!!

    Remember there are not supposed to be ANY horses in the Americas prior to Columbus....

    "The Fisherman" near Bouse, AZ

    Another view:

    "The Snake" near Parker, AZ (sorry only one I could find that would link properly)

    They are great mysteries, of course scholars dismiss them as figures "for the Gods" but we really don't know what purpose they served nor how they were laid out. There are over 200 known figures along the Colorado river alone; a very strange parallel to those of the Nazca plain in S. America in my opinion. Should we be surprised to find the same sort of "art" work in the home of the Celts across the sea?

    http://www.goddessmystic.com/blog/longman.gif (sorry for a link, couldn't get the photo to load here for some reason)
    The "Long Man" near Wilmington, Great Britain - where Ogam writing may have originated.... hmmm

    Cptbil, I would love to hear more about the Ogam writing you found along the Rio Grande, and see the photo of the geoglyph; the "expert" you showed the photos to, was it Dr. Barry Fell? Thank you in advance,
    "We must find a way, or we will make one."--Hannibal Barca

  19. #18
    Mar 2003
    Cocoa Beach

    Re: CPTBIL's mention of Aztec pictographs in SE Arizona

    Have a gander at this.
    excerpt from Archeological Coverups by David Hatcher Childress
    Perhaps the most amazing suppression of all is the excavation of an Egyptian tomb by the Smithsonian itself in Arizona. A lengthy front page story of the PHOENIX GAZETTE on 5 April 1909 (follows this article), gave a highly detailed report of the discovery and excavation of a rock-cut vault by an expedition led by a Professor S.A. Jordan of the Smithsonian. The Smithsonian, however, claims to have absolutely no knowledge of the discovery or its discoverers.

    The World Explorers Club decided to check on this story by calling the Smithsonian in Washington, D.C., though we felt there was little chance of getting any real information. After speaking briefly to an operator, we were transferred to a Smithsonian staff archaeologist, and a woman's voice came on the phone and identified herself.

    I told her that I was investigating a story from a 1909 Phoenix newspaper article about the Smithsonian Institution's having excavated rock-cut vaults in the Grand Canyon where Egyptian artefacts had been discovered, and whether the Smithsonian Institution could give me any more information on the subject.

    "Well, the first thing I can tell you, before we go any further," she said, "is that no Egyptian artefacts of any kind have ever been found in North or South America. Therefore, I can tell you that the Smithsonian Institute has never been involved in any such excavations." She was quite helpful and polite but, in the end, knew nothing. Neither she nor anyone else with whom I spoke could find any record of the discovery or either G.E. Kinkaid and Professor S.A. Jordan. While it cannot be discounted that the entire story is an elaborate newspaper hoax, the fact that it was on the front page, named the prestigious Smithsonian Institution, and gave a highly detailed story that went on for several pages, lends a great deal to its credibility. It is hard to believe such a story could have come out of thin air. Is the Smithsonian Institution covering up an archaeological discovery of immense importance? If this story is true it would radically change the current view that there was no transoceanic contact in pre-Columbian times, and that all American Indians, on both continents, are descended from Ice Age explorers who came across the Bering Strait. (Any information on G.E. Kinkaid and Professor S.A. Jordan, or their alleged discoveries, that readers may have would be greatly appreciated.....write to Childress at the World Explorers Club at the above address.)

    Is the idea that ancient Egyptians came to the Arizona area in the ancient past so objectionable and preposterous that it must be covered up? Perhaps the Smithsonian Institution is more interested in maintaining the status quo than rocking the boat with astonishing new discoveries that overturn previously accepted academic teachings.

    Historian and linguist Carl Hart, editor of WORLD EXPLORER, then obtained a hiker's map of the Grand Canyon from a bookstore in Chicago. Poring over the map, we were amazed to see that much of the area on the north side of the canyon has Egyptian names. The area around Ninety-four Mile Creek and Trinity Creek had areas (rock formations, apparently) with names like Tower of Set, Tower of Ra, Horus Temple, Osiris Temple, and Isis Temple. In the Haunted Canyon area were such names as the Cheops Pyramid, the Buddha Cloister, Buddha Temple, Manu Temple and Shiva Temple. Was there any relationship between these places and the alleged Egyptian discoveries in the Grand Canyon?

    We called a state archaeologist at the Grand Canyon, and were told that the early explorers had just liked Egyptian and Hindu names, but that it was true that this area was off limits to hikers or other visitors, "because of dangerous caves."

    Indeed, this entire area with the Egyptian and Hindu place names in the Grand Canyon is a forbidden zone - no one is allowed into this large area. We could only conclude that this was the area where the vaults were located. Yet today, this area is curiously off-limits to all hikers and even, in large part, park personnel.

    I believe that the discerning reader will see that if only a small part of the "Smithsoniangate" evidence is true, then our most hallowed archaeological institution has been actively involved in suppressing evidence for advanced American cultures, evidence for ancient voyages of various cultures to North America, evidence for anomalistic giants and other oddball artefacts, and evidence that tends to disprove the official dogma that is now the history of North America.

    The Smithsonian's Board of Regents still refuses to open its meetings to the news media or the public. If Americans were ever allowed inside the 'nation's attic', as the Smithsonian has been called, what skeletons might they find?

    ----------------------------------------- ---------------------------

    from the front page of THE PHOENIX GAZETTE of April 5th, 1909 EXPLORATIONS IN GRAND CANYON

    Mysteries of Immense Rich Cavern being brought to light

    Jordan is enthused
    Remarkable finds indicate ancient people migrated from Orient

    The latest news of the progress of the explorations of what is now regarded by scientists as not only the oldest archeological discovery in the United States, but one of the most valuable in the world, which was mentioned some time ago in the Gazette, was brought to the city yesterday by G.E. Kinkaid, the explorer who found the great underground citadel of the Grand Canyon during a trip from Green River, Wyoming, down the Colorado, in a wooden boat, to Yuma, several months ago.

    According to the story related to the Gazette by Mr. Kinkaid, the archaelogists of the Smithsonian Institute, which is financing the expeditions, have made discoveries which almost conclusively prove that the race which inhabited this mysterious cavern, hewn in solid rock by human hands, was of oriental origin, possibly from Egypt, tracing back to Ramses. If their theories are borne out by the translation of the tablets engraved with heiroglyphics, the mystery of the prehistoric peoples of North America, their ancient arts, who they were and whence they came, will be solved. Egypt and the Nile, and Arizona and the Colorado will be linked by a historical chain running back to ages which staggers the wildest fancy of the fictionist.

    A Thorough Examination

    Under the direction of Prof. S. A. Jordan, the Smithsonian Institute is now prosecuting the most thorough explorations, which will be continued until the last link in the chain is forged. Nearly a mile underground, about 1480 feet below the surface, the long main passage has been delved into, to find another mammoth chamber from which radiates scores of passageways, like the spokes of a wheel.

    Several hundred rooms have been discovered, reached by passageways running from the main passage, one of them having been explored for 854 feet and another 634 feet. The recent finds include articles which have never been known as native to this country, and doubtless they had their origin in the orient. War weapons, copper instruments, sharp-edged and hard as steel, indicate the high state of civilization reached by these strange people. So interested have the scientists become that preparations are being made to equip the camp for extensive studies, and the force will be increased to thirty or forty persons.

    Mr. Kinkaid's Report

    Mr. Kinkaid was the first white child born in Idaho and has been an explorer and hunter all his life, thirty years having been in the service of the Smithsonian Institute. Even briefly recounted, his history sounds fabulous, almost grotesque.

    "First, I would impress that the cavern is nearly inaccessible. The entrance is 1,486 feet down the sheer canyon wall. It is located on government land and no visitor will be allowed there under penalty of trespass. The scientists wish to work unmolested, without fear of archeological discoveries being disturbed by curio or relic hunters. A trip there would be fruitless, and the visitor would be sent on his way. The story of how I found the cavern has been related, but in a paragraph: I was journeying down the Colorado river in a boat, alone, looking for mineral. Some forty-two miles up the river from the El Tovar Crystal canyon, I saw on the east wall, stains in the sedimentary formation about 2,000 feet above the river bed. There was no trail to this point, but I finally reached it with great difficulty.
    Above a shelf which hid it from view from the river, was the mouth of the cave. There are steps leading from this entrance some thirty yards to what was, at the time the cavern was inhabited, the level of the river. When I saw the chisel marks on the wall inside the entrance, I became interested, securing my gun and went in. During that trip I went back several hundred feet along the main passage till I came to the crypt in which I discovered the mummies. One of these I stood up and photographed by flashlight. I gathered a number of relics, which I carried down the Colorado to Yuma, from whence I shipped them to Washington with details of the discovery. Following this, the explorations were undertaken.

    The Passages

    "The main passageway is about 12 feet wide, narrowing to nine feet toward the farther end. About 57 feet from the entrance, the first side-passages branch off to the right and left, along which, on both sides, are a number of rooms about the size of ordinary living rooms of today, though some are 30 by 40 feet square. These are entered by oval-shaped doors and are ventilated by round air spaces through the walls into the passages. The walls are about three feet six inches in thickness.

    The passages are chiseled or hewn as straight as could be laid out by an engineer. The ceilings of many of the rooms converge to a center. The side-passages near the entrance run at a sharp angle from the main hall, but toward the rear they gradually reach a right angle in direction.

    The Shrine

    "Over a hundred feet from the entrance is the cross-hall, several hundred feet long, in which are found the idol, or image, of the people's god, sitting cross-legged, with a lotus flower or lily in each hand. The cast of the face is oriental, and the carving this cavern. The idol almost resembles Buddha, though the scientists are not certain as to what religious worship it represents. Taking into consideration everything found thus far, it is possible that this worship most resembles the ancient people of Tibet.

    Surrounding this idol are smaller images, some very beautiful in form; others crooked-necked and distorted shapes, symbolical, probably, of good and evil. There are two large cactus with protruding arms, one on each side of the dais on which the god squats. All this is carved out of hard rock resembling marble. In the opposite corner of this cross-hall were found tools of all descriptions, made of copper. These people undoubtedly knew the lost art of hardening this metal, which has been sought by chemicals for centureis without result. On a bench running around the workroom was some charcoal and other material probably used in the process. There is also slag and stuff similar to matte, showing that these ancients smelted ores, but so far no trace of where or how this was done has been discovered, nor the origin of the ore.

    "Among the other finds are vases or urns and cups of copper and gold, made very artistic in design. The pottery work includes enameled ware and glazed vessels. Another passageway leads to granaries such as are found in the oriental temples. They contain seeds of varous kinds. One very large storehouse has not yet been entered, as it is twelve feet high and can be reached only from above. Two copper hooks extend on the edge, which indicates that some sort of ladder was attached. These granaries are rounded, as the materials of which they are constructed, I think, is a ver hard cement. A gray metal is also found in this cavern, which puzzles the scientists, for its identity has not been established. It resembles platinum. Strewn promiscuously over the floor everywhere are what people call "cats eyse', a yellow stone of no great value. Each one is engraved with the head of the Malay type.

    The Hieroglyphics

    "On all the urns, or walls over doorways , and tablets of stone which were found by the image are the mysterious hieroglyphics, the key to which the Smithsonian Institute hopes yet to discover. The engraving on the tables probably has something to do with the religion of the people. Similar hieroglyphics have been found in southern Arizona. Among the pictorial writings, only two animals are found. One is of prehistoric type.

    The Crypt

    "The tomb or crypt in which the mummies were found is one of the largest of the chambers, the walls slanting back at an angle of about 35 degrees. On these are tiers of mummies, each one occupying a separate hewn shelf. At the head of each is a small bench, on which is found copper cups and pieces of broken swords. Some of the mummies are covered with clay, and all are wrapped in a bark fabric.

    The urns or cups on the lower tiers are crude, while as the higher shelves are reached, the urns are finer in design, showing a later stage of civilization. It is worthy of note that all the mummies examined so far have proved to be male, no children or females being buried here. This leads to the belief that this exterior section was the warriors' barracks.

    "Among the discoveries no bones of animals have been found, no skins, no clothing, no bedding. Many of the rooms are bare but for water vessels. One room, about 40 by 700 feet, was probably the main dining hall, for cooking utensils are found here. What these people lived on is a problem, though it is presumed that they came south in the winter and farmed in the valleys, going back north in the summer.

    Upwards of 50,000 people could have lived in the caverns comfortably. One theory is that the present Indian tribes found in Arizona are descendants of the serfs or slaves of the people which inhabited the cave. Undoubtedly a good many thousands of years before the Christian era, a people lived here which reached a high stage of civilization. The chronology of human history is full of gaps. Professor Jordan is much enthused over the discoveries and believes that the find will prove of incalculable value in archeological work.

    "One thing I have not spoken of, may be of interest. There is one chamber of the passageway to which is not ventilated, and when we approached it a deadly, snaky smell struck us. Our light would not penetrate the gloom, and until stronger ones are available we will not know what the chamber contains. Some say snakes, but other boo-hoo this idea and think it may contain a deadly gas or chemicals used by the ancients. No sounds are heard, but it smells snaky just the same. The whole underground installation gives one of shaky nerves the creeps. The gloom is like a weight on one's shoulders, and our flashlights and candles only make the darkness blacker. Imagination can revel in conjectures and ungodly daydreams back through the ages that have elapsed till the mind reels dizzily in space."

    An Indian Legend

    In connection with this story, it is notable that among the Hopi Indians the tradition is told that their ancestors once lived in an underworld in the Grand Canyon till dissension arose between the good and the bad, the people of one heart and the people of two hearts. Machetto, who was their chief, counseled them to leave the underworld, but there was no way out. The chief then caused a tree to grow up and pierce the roof of the underworld, and then the people of one heart climbed out. They tarried by Paisisvai (Red River), which is the Colorado, and grew grain and corn.

    They sent out a message to the Temple of the Sun, asking the blessing of peace, good will and rain for people of one heart. That messenger never returned, but today at the Hopi villages at sundown can be seen the old men of the tribe out on the housetops gazing toward the sun, looking for the messenger. When he returns, their lands and ancient dwelling place will be restored to them. That is the tradition.

    Among the engravings of animals in the cave is seen the image of a heart over the spot where it is located. The legend was learned by W.E. Rollins, the artist, during a year spent with the Hopi Indians.

    There are two theories of the origin of the Egyptians. One is that they came from Asia; another that the racial cradle was in the upper Nile region. Heeren, an Egyptologist, believed in the Indian origin of the Egyptians. The discoveries in the Grand Canyon may throw further light on human evolution and prehistoric ages.
    "Him thief him friend of him last Guinea,
         Him kill both Friar and Priest, Oh dear.
             Him cut de troat of pickaninny,
                 bloody, bloody buccaneer."

  20. #19
    Nemo me impune lacesset

    Jan 2005
    Tesoro Lobo Supertraq, (95%) Garrett Scorpion (5%)
    660 times

    Re: CPTBIL's mention of Aztec pictographs in SE Arizona

    Thanks Bill for posting that article - I had seen it before and made a few phone calls (several years ago) to the Park service asking about the area where the caves (or tunnels) are, and found out a couple of interesting things. For one, visitors are not allowed into that area (it is up in that same area where you find many "Egyptian" sounding names of landmarks) and the Park Rangers are also NOT allowed to enter the area! The reason I was told? "Dangerous caves!" Dangerous caves my eye, yes they are sure "dangerous" but only to those historians who have made their careers on telling a lie.

    "We must find a way, or we will make one."--Hannibal Barca

  21. #20
    Dec 2005
    Eugene, Oregon
    Fisher CZ5, White's GM VSat
    69 times

    Re: CPTBIL's mention of Aztec pictographs in SE Arizona

    "They are great mysteries, of course scholars dismiss them as figures "for the Gods" " -Quote from Oro-

    Never forget this, you'll never read an archeological find story the same again, lol!- When an archeologist has absolutely NO CLUE what an object is, it is "of religeous signifigance"


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