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  1. #1
    yurt_boy

    CPTBIL's mention of Aztec pictographs in SE Arizona

    CPTBIL, Not trying to pry anything out of you, but your mention of Aztec pictographs near the AZ/NM/Mex border caught my eye. My family is from that very area and have owned/operated several cattle ranches down there. My grandfather and great uncle found, at different times, a Spanish sword (apparently laid in the crook of a tree, which subsequently grew AROUND the blade!) and a conquistador-type helmet. Both were given to the Univ. of Ariz. in Tucson. My grandfather personally told me about this and I doubt he ever lied a day in his life. My grandmother also showed me a newspaper clipping from the Arizona Citizen. Their discovery would have been somewhere in the late 50's to early 60's, I think. Anyway, I know the general area where they were found, and there's another anomoly that's there, but I haven't personally seen it yet. My grandfather told of a natural, vertical shaft going down into the ground. He said there was ALWAYS so much cold wind blowing up through it that he and other cowboys would throw their hats over the hole and they wouldn't fall down. They'd be blown up and out. Several years ago, I spoke to an old lady whose family still ranches down there. She confirmed this story about the hole, and put me in touch with her son-in-law, who is a world-class rock climber. I spoke to him on the telephone, and he too had been to the hole. In fact, he had rappelled down into it! The longest rope he had was 300', and he got to the end of this without hitting bottom or being able to see the bottom with his headlamp! I don't know how to get a hold of him anymore, but just by coincidence, my dad mentioned running into a guy who lives in Tucson. That guy's mother-in-law used to live on a ranch in the same area. My dad and I are going to go talk to her and see if she can direct us to the shaft. I should also point out that in the early 90's, my family got some mining claims in the same area. Assay results showed high concentrations of gold, but the type of thing that'd have to be smelted, not placer gold. We never really did anything with it because the claims were on BLM land and we figured the gov't would take whatever we found anyway. On the Aztec angle, I should also point out that many of the prehistoric Indian sites in So. Arizona, although they've been labeled Anasazi or Hohokam, have distinct ball courts, and parrot feathers have been excavated. It's not a popular theory in mainstream archaeology ("Baring Strait and south, by God!"), but it seems to indicate to me that Aztecan and/or Mayan connections are there. So, in short, I'd like to see if you and I are in the same area. I don't exactly know how to go about it, 'cause neither of us likely wants to tip our hand. What do you think?

  2. #2

    Dec 2004
    148
    5 times

    Re: CPTBIL's mention of Aztec pictographs in SE Arizona

    Interesting story. One issue you raise is that some so-called experts, may more correctly be called intellectual clowns. We must be skeptical of claims from such who proclaim answers to profound questions based on flimsy evidence. I have heard of an albaster egg discovered in the mid-west with markings exclusive to King Tut. Yet, the discovery of the egg pre-dated the discovery of Tut's tomb. This suggests that the ancient Egyptians may have traveled here also, possibly even mining gold. Certain sites attributed to native americans may very well be of Aztec origin. In the northeast a Spanish settlement, pre-dating Plymouth and Jamestown was discovered in New York. Also Celtic and Viking artifacts from this area debunks mainstream history. These things don't make print in the mainstream media sources, because they go against what we are taught and expected to believe. As THers, we must be open minded in our approach to solving mysteries. By they way, I thought someone should reply to your post.

  3. #3
    yurt_boy

    Re: CPTBIL's mention of Aztec pictographs in SE Arizona

    Well thank you for the reply. I couldn't agree with you more. I sometimes run across publications like Ancient American and am always astounded by the sheer amount of archaeological information that is out there but never really sees the light of day. It's like the scientists, for all their allegedly unbiased posturing, are "cherry picking" what raw details will support their personal views and discarding the rest.

  4. #4
    Cptbil

    Mar 2003
    Az/NM/Ca/Nv/Tx
    1,402
    10 times

    Re: CPTBIL's mention of Aztec pictographs in SE Arizona

    "Unbiased & Cherry picking"
    Boy!
    Let me tell you!
    We found somemarks/writtings along the Rio Grande in New Mexico...
    BUT!
    Oh! That's not "writting", They were just sharping their spear points, etc..
    Well!
    One of our photos got into the hands of a REAL Authority!
    In Fact! He was the world authority on...
    "OGAM" Writting!
    Seems that for all of these years "The Experts" were calling "OGAM" writting, Scratches!
    In fact one of them went as far as to say, the marks were from a plow!
    Sure!
    4' above ground!
    Seems that they didn't want to admit, that The Celts and others had been here, from about 500! BC! . That's 2500 years ago!
    2000 years before "Old Chris! " got here!
    AND! Had left their marks upon the rocks!
    Sure!
    They're unbiased!
    CptBil & Bugs

  5. #5
    Cptbil

    Mar 2003
    Az/NM/Ca/Nv/Tx
    1,402
    10 times

    Re: CPTBIL's mention of Aztec pictographs in SE Arizona

    Yurt_boy:
    I am presently in Arizona!
    Would you like to meet somewhere and discuss a few ideas?
    I have a piece equipment that can get a person, already has, safely down AND! Back up!
    It has already done 515' ? in New Mexico!
    I am here! In Arizona !
    Just a short drive from "Rodeo" (NM, For those not familiar with the area) !
    I can be ready to go in a week!
    Let's meet and Let's GO!
    CptBil & Bugs

  6. #6

    Feb 2005
    31

    Re: CPTBIL's mention of Aztec pictographs in SE Arizona

    Lucky dogs

  7. #7
    us
    Feb 2006
    5

    Re: CPTBIL's mention of Aztec pictographs in SE Arizona


    Cherry Picking! Oh man that is putting it mildly.

    Sadly it is very common for those who are supposed to inspire free thought and new ideas to do the total oposite in order to advance their own theories. Sadly I have seen the majority of those in History and Archeology among others to discount other theories that discount their own following.

    Like how the new world was populated! We even see it on this group. Have you ever seen people who follow the landbridge theory verses those who beleive say the Egytian theory go at it! Neither is willing to accept the others ideas and thus real information is discounted and lost.

    This also goes for artifacts and information like the toolmarks/writting. Rather than admit it is something unknown poof it is explained as something simple and discounted rather than examined further. One of the favorites, "It is beleived to have had a religious signifigance." ARGH!!!! that is the answer to give when they have no firggin clue.

    As for Aztec evidence in the US South West it is entirely possible. Those regions would have been within their range. And at the least would have had contact and influence since they did have a active trade and trail network.

    One must also consider that we know next to nothing about many of the peoples who lived in those regions prior to European Discovery, and even then it took time.

    And let us not forget the cultures who preceeded the Aztecs? The Ulmec, Toltec and there was another main group whom escapes me at the moment. All of which would have been the same basic people though which makes it quite possible. And then we also have the fact that their empire was toppled. And when empires fall segments of societies scatter which could be used when the Aztecs came to power as well as when they fell to the Spanish.



  8. #8
    us
    Jan 2006
    Houston, TX
    V3i/DX-1, E-Trac/X-1, Excalibur II
    3,220
    19 times
    Metal Detecting

    Re: CPTBIL's mention of Aztec pictographs in SE Arizona

    There are a lot of OOP (out of place) objects. The elephant carving and glyphs of giraffes from the Olmec era in South America. The fact that the zodiac is identical in the middle east and South America (from way back), except for the substituation of local animals for some symbols.

    The one I like best is the confirmed presence of cocaine in an ancient egyptian mummy who died sometime BC. Coca only grows in the Andes above 6000 feet.

    People were crossing the ocean long, long before the currently accepted dates.

    The people who determine accepted history can really piss you off. They are tethered by their peers and how they were taught...if they go out of bounds they are marked as loonies and their grants dry up...the system sucks.

  9. #9
    us
    Feb 2006
    5

    Re: CPTBIL's mention of Aztec pictographs in SE Arizona


    You got that right Beep. As they say a mind is like a parachute. It only works when opened.

    And yes, saw something about the cocaine in the Egyptian embalming process.

    Or what about the petroglyphs in the SW of a Mamoth, although the sceintists claim it is impossible as they all died out prior to man. Heck, what percentage of ancient artifacts have been found? Abesnce of evidence works both ways.


  10. #10
    us
    Feb 2006
    5

    Re: CPTBIL's mention of Aztec pictographs in SE Arizona



    Well the thing is there are so many theories and once an the established profs get their little cult who follows their theory they refuse to allow any alternative idea.

    I mean it is possible that the same thing was developed in different parts of the world just as much as it is an influence from someone from that culture.

    And then there are things that are just common to all cultures.

    An example, just about every culture no matter where on earth has a "Great Flood" storey.

    As for comparing Aztecs to Egyptians well we have worship of a sun Deity, an advanced knowledge of the solar system and solar calendars, pyramids, mummification and let us not forget the Reed Boats.

    Reed boats made of papyrus are still used today by people living on the Nile, while the same goes for people living in and around Lake Titicaca in S. America.

    It is interesting to note the comparisons and see the similarities. And lets not forget enculturation where one group moves in absorbers other cultures and peoples and adopting some of their stories, legends and customs. And here is where the boom is to ancient treasure hunting!

    Legends and tales although fantastic often are based on a real event. And it is that event or actions that must be gleaned and used as the clue. Can we say Heinrich Schleeman and Troy?

    I would say one of the first places to look is of course in he old records, but also in the oral tradition of the region and pick up the local legends and stories. And then unravel the storey from there. A storey can lead to a clue of a location which can lead to another clue and so on and so on. It is all so fascinating.


  11. #11
    Cptbil

    Mar 2003
    Az/NM/Ca/Nv/Tx
    1,402
    10 times

    Re: CPTBIL's mention of Aztec pictographs in SE Arizona

    Mr Adventure:
    In, What part of the country do you live?
    CptBil & Bugs

  12. #12
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    11,498
    2985 times

    Re: CPTBIL's mention of Aztec pictographs in SE Arizona

    HI MR Adventure: Some Psychiatrists would say "The collective sub-conscious" thingie in that we are all tied together and do share thoughts, hence simultaneous discoveries in various parts of the world during the same time periods.

    Tropical Tramp
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  13. #13

    Jun 2006
    27
    2 times

    Re: CPTBIL's mention of Aztec pictographs in SE Arizona

    Well, I agree the certified archaeologists try to keep all non-certified persons from being able to legally get their hands on known archaeological sites... but does Cptbil have any pictures or proof of what he 'mentions?' If we could see some inkling of what he's talking about, might we not have a better clue as to the markings being of Aztec origin or some other tribe, etc.?

  14. #14
    Cptbil

    Mar 2003
    Az/NM/Ca/Nv/Tx
    1,402
    10 times

    Re: CPTBIL's mention of Aztec pictographs in SE Arizona

    Zeitgeist_Zero:
    I am going to "post" a photo on this forum !
    If ! :P I can get it sent from my other, a desk top, computer!
    It, the desk top, is having a problem(s) sending email!
    It rec's email, OK!
    But!
    I have trouble sending email out!!
    Anyone have any ideas ?
    But!
    I want to describe this photo before I send it ...
    The photo was taken from an airplane ...
    The plane flying above a small "mesa *" !
    The Airplane was flying @ 5000' , above the mesa!
    A "Mesa" for those who are not familiar w/western/spanish, is a hill/mnt, with a very flat squared off top, that runs it's lenght!
    On top of this "mesa" is a a "manmade" figure!
    This figure is roughly 350' long !
    It can only be seen from above !
    The original finder, was lead here, in & by, his search for Montezuma's Treasure Cache!
    The figure, is as you'll see, a perfect replica of a "Fox's Head" !
    Even to the colored tips of it's ears, and the "nose pad" !
    &, it's Perfect round clear eyes, etc ....
    The round circular area that makes up the Fox's "jaw" is where he, "the finder" , believes is where the treasure is cached!
    If you look, very carefully, you will see a faint trail coming up, from the canyon, on the right hand side of the photo!
    Now!
    Don't look for some/a well marked, easy to spot , well used trail!
    This photo is from a height and of a trail that may be hundreds of yrs old!
    You are looking for a very faint, & a very thin,"white" line, on the photo!
    On the right hand side, coming up the side of the mesa!
    I am going to stop HERE!
    I don't want to present too much information, until you understand the situation. Let me know if you have any questions so far ?

    After which, I'll finish up!
    CptBil & Bugs

  15. #15
    us
    Cptbild

    Oct 2005
    NM/AZ/CA/Co/Utah & P.I. Tx.
    339
    2 times

    Re: CPTBIL's mention of Aztec pictographs in SE Arizona

    Change that "Zero" to a "Xero" , Sorry !
    Cptbild & Bugs

 

 
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