Was The Atom Bomb On Japan Necessary?Read This!

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Forwarded, a message from Edwin Foster. Edwin is active with Seabee organizations and has provided details of our planned invasion of Japan during 1945. The information might remove any doubts by some whether the use of the atomic bomb was necessary. Maurie Ashland 9th BG

An Invasion Not Found in the History Books:
Deep in the recesses of the National Archives in Washington, D.C., hidden for nearly four decades lie thousands of pages of yellowing and dusty documents stamped "Top Secret". These documents, now declassified, are the plans for Operation Downfall, the invasion of Japan during World War II. Only a few Americans in 1945 were aware of the elaborate plans that had been prepared for the Allied Invasion of the Japanese home islands. Even fewer today are aware of the defenses the Japanese had prepared to counter the invasion had it been launched. Operation Downfall was finalized during the spring and summer of 1945. It called for two massive military undertakings to be carried out in succession and aimed at the heart of the Japanese Empire.

In the first invasion - code named Operation Olympic - American combat troops would land on Japan by amphibious assault during the early morning hours of November 1, 1945 - 50 years ago. Fourteen combat divisions of soldiers and Marines would land on heavily fortified and defended Kyushu, the southernmost of the Japanese home islands, after an unprecedented naval and aerial bombardment.

The second invasion on March 1, 1946 - code named Operation Coronet - would send at least 22 divisions against 1 million Japanese defenders on the main island of Honshu and the Tokyo Plain. It's goal: the unconditional surrender of Japan. With the exception of a part of the British Pacific Fleet, Operation Downfall was to be a strictly American operation. It called for using the entire Marine Corps, the entire Pacific Navy, elements of the 7th Army Air Force, the 8 Air Force (recently redeployed from Europe), 10th Air Force and the American Far Eastern Air Force. More than 1.5 million combat soldiers, with 3 million more in support or more than 40% of all servicemen still in uniform in 1945 - would be directly involved in the two amphibious assaults. Casualties were expected to be extremely heavy.

Admiral William Leahy estimated that there would be more than 250,000 Americans killed or wounded on Kyushu alone. General Charles Willoughby, chief of intelligence for General Douglas MacArthur, the Supreme Commander of the Southwest Pacific, estimated American casualties would be one million men by the fall of 1946. Willoughby's own intelligence staff considered this to be a conservative estimate.

During the summer of 1945, America had little time to prepare for such an endeavor, but top military leaders were in almost unanimous agreement that an invasion was necessary.

While naval blockade and strategic bombing of Japan was considered to be useful, General MacArthur, for instance, did not believe a blockade would bring about an unconditional surrender. The advocates for invasion agreed that while a naval blockade chokes, it does not kill; and though strategic bombing might destroy cities, it leaves whole armies intact.

So on May 25, 1945, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, after extensive deliberation, issued to General MacArthur, Admiral Chester Nimitz, and Army Air Force General Henry Arnold, the top secret directive to proceed with the invasion of Kyushu. The target date was after the typhoon season

President Truman approved the plans for the invasions July 24. Two days later, the United Nations issued the Potsdam Proclamation, which called upon Japan to surrender unconditionally or face total destruction. Three days later, the Japanese governmental news agency broadcast to the world that Japan would ignore the proclamation and would refuse to surrender. During this same period it was learned -- via monitoring Japanese radio broadcasts -- that Japan had closed all schools and mobilized its schoolchildren, was arming its civilian population and was fortifying caves and building underground defenses.

Operation Olympic called for a four-pronged assault on Kyushu. Its purpose was to seize and control the southern one-third of that island and establish naval and air bases, to tighten the naval blockade of the home islands, to destroy units of the main Japanese army and to support the later invasion of the Tokyo Plain.

The preliminary invasion would began October 27 when the 40th Infantry Division would land on a series of small islands west and southwest of Kyushu. At the same time, the 158th Regimental Combat Team would invade and occupy a small island 28 miles south of Kyushu. On these islands, seaplane bases would be established and radar would be set up to provide advance air warning for the invasion fleet, to serve as fighter direction centers for the carrier-based aircraft and to provide an emergency anchorage for the invasion fleet, should things not go well on the day of the invasion. As the invasion grew imminent, the massive firepower of the Navy - the Third and Fifth Fleets -- would approach Japan. The Third Fleet, under Admiral William "Bull" Halsey, with its big guns and naval aircraft, would provide strategic support for the operation against Honshu and Hokkaido. Halsey's fleet would be composed of battleships, heavy cruisers, destroyers, dozens of support ships and three fast carrier task groups. From these carriers, hundreds of Navy fighters, dive bombers and torpedo planes would hit targets all over the island of Honshu. The 3,000 ship Fifth Fleet, under Admiral Raymond Spruance, would carry the invasion troops.

Several days before the invasion, the battleships, heavy cruisers and destroyers would pour thousands of tons of high explosives into the target areas. They would not cease the bombardment until after the land forces had been launched. During the early morning hours of November 1, the invasion would begin. Thousands of soldiers and Marines would pour ashore on beaches all along the eastern, southeastern, southern and western coasts of Kyushu. Waves of Helldivers, Dauntless dive bombers, Avengers, Corsairs, and Hellcats from 66 aircraft carriers would bomb, rocket and strafe enemy defenses, gun emplacements and troop concentrations along the beaches.

The Eastern Assault Force consisting of the 25th, 33rd and 41st Infantry Divisions would land near Miyaski, at beaches called Austin, Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Chrysler, and Ford, and move inland to attempt to capture the city and its nearby airfield. The Southern Assault Force, consisting of the 1st Cavalry Division, the 43rd Division and Americal Division would land inside Ariake Bay at beaches labeled DeSoto, Dusenberg, Essex, Ford, and Franklin and attempt to capture Shibushi and the city of Kanoya and its airfield.

On the western shore of Kyushu, at beaches Pontiac, Reo, Rolls Royce, Saxon, Star, Studebaker, Stutz, Winston and Zephyr, the V Amphibious Corps would land the 2nd, 3rd and 5th Marine Divisions, sending half of its force inland to Sendai and the other half to the port city of Kagoshima.

On November 4, the Reserve Force, consisting of the 81st and 98th Infantry Divisions and the 11th Airborne Division, after feigning an attack of the island of Shikoku, would be landed -- if not needed elsewhere -- near Kaimondake, near the southernmost tip of Kagoshima Bay, at the beaches designated Locomobile, Lincoln, LaSalle, Hupmobile, Moon, Mercedes, Maxwell, Overland, Oldsmobile, Packard and Plymouth.

Olympic was not just a plan for invasion, but for conquest and occupation as well. It was expected to take four months to achieve its objective, with the three fresh American divisions per month to be landed in support of that operation if needed.

If all went well with Olympic, Coronet would be launched March 1, 1946. Coronet would be twice the size of Olympic, with as many as 28 divisions landing on Honshu.

All along the coast east of Tokyo, the American 1st Army would land the 5th, 7th, 27th, 44th, 86th, and 96th Infantry Divisions along with the 4th and 6th Marine Divisions.

At Sagami Bay, just south of Tokyo, the entire 8th and 10th Armies would strike north and east to clear the long western shore of Tokyo Bay and attempt to go as far as Yokohama. The assault troops landing south of Tokyo would be the 4th, 6th, 8th, 24th, 31st, 37th, 38th and 8th Infantry Divisions, along with the 13th and 20th Armored Divisions.

Following the initial assault, eight more divisions - the 2nd, 28th, 35th, 91st, 95th, 97th and 104th Infantry Divisions and the 11th Airborne Division -- would be landed. If additional troops were needed, as expected, other divisions redeployed from Europe and undergoing training in the United States would be shipped to Japan in what was hoped to be the final push.

Captured Japanese documents and post war interrogations of Japanese military leaders disclose that information concerning the number of Japanese planes available for the defense of the home islands was dangerously in error.

During the sea battle at Okinawa alone, Japanese kamakaze aircraft sank 32 Allied ships and damaged more than 400 others. But during the summer of 1945, American top brass concluded that the Japanese had spent their air force since American bombers and fighters daily flew unmolested over Japan.

What the military leaders did not know was that by the end of July the Japanese had been saving all aircraft, fuel, and pilots in reserve, and had been feverishly building new planes for the decisive battle for their homeland.

As part of Ketsu-Go, the name for the plan to defend Japan -- the Japanese were building 20 suicide takeoff strips in southern Kyushu with underground hangars. They also had 35 camouflaged airfields and nine seaplane bases.

On the night before the expected invasion, 50 Japanese seaplane bombers, 100 former carrier aircraft and 50 land based army planes were to be launched in a suicide attack on the fleet.

The Japanese had 58 more airfields in Korea, western Honshu and Shikoku, which also were to be used for massive suicide attacks.

Allied intelligence had established that the Japanese had no more than 2,500 aircraft of which they guessed 300 would be deployed in suicide attacks.

In August 1945, however, unknown to Allied intelligence, the Japanese still had 5, 651 army and 7,074 navy aircraft, for a total of 12, 725 planes of all types. Every village had some type of aircraft manufacturing activity. Hidden in mines, railway tunnels, under viaducts and in basements of department stores, work was being done to construct new planes.

Additionally, the Japanese were building newer and more effective models of the Okka, a rocket-propelled bomb much like the German V-1, but flown by a suicide pilot.

When the invasion became imminent, Ketsu-Go called for a fourfold aerial plan of attack to destroy up to 800 Allied ships.

While Allied ships were approaching Japan, but still in the open seas, an initial force of 2,000 army and navy fighters were to fight to the death to control the skies over Kyushu. A second force of 330 navy combat pilots were to attack the main body of the task force to keep it from using its fire support and air cover to protect the troop carrying transports. While these two forces were engaged, a third force of 825 suicide planes was to hit the American transports.

As the invasion convoys approached their anchorages, another 2,000 suicide planes were to be launched in waves of 200 to 300, to be used in hour by hour attacks.

By mid-morning of the first day of the invasion, most of the American land-based aircraft would be forced to return to their bases, leaving the defense against the suicide planes to the carrier pilots and the shipboard gunners.

Carrier pilots crippled by fatigue would have to land time and time again to rearm and refuel. Guns would malfunction from the heat of continuous firing and ammunition would become scarce. Gun crews would be exhausted by nightfall, but still the waves of kamikaze would continue. With the fleet hovering off the beaches, all remaining Japanese aircraft would be committed to nonstop suicide attacks, which the Japanese hoped could be sustained for 10 days. The Japanese planned to coordinate their air strikes with attacks from the 40 remaining submarines from the Imperial Navy -- some armed with Long Lance torpedoes with a range of 20 miles -- when the invasion fleet was 180 miles off Kyushu.

The Imperial Navy had 23 destroyers and two cruisers, which were operational. These ships were to be used to counterattack the American invasion. A number of the destroyers were to be beached at the last minute to be used as anti-invasion gun platforms.

Once offshore, the invasion fleet would be forced to defend not only against the attacks from the air, but would also be confronted with suicide attacks from sea. Japan had established a suicide naval attack unit of midget submarines, human torpedoes and exploding motorboats

The goal of the Japanese was to shatter the invasion before the landing. The Japanese were convinced the Americans would back off or become so demoralized that they would then accept a less-than-unconditional surrender and a more honorable and face-saving end for the Japanese.

But as horrible as the battle of Japan would be off the beaches, it would be on Japanese soil that the American forces would face the most rugged and fanatical defense encountered during the war.

Throughout the island-hopping Pacific campaign, Allied troops had always out numbered the Japanese by 2 to 1 and sometimes 3 to 1. In Japan it would be different. By virtue of a combination of cunning, guesswork, and brilliant military reasoning, a number of Japan's top military leaders were able to deduce, not only when, but where, the United States would land its first invasion forces.

Facing the 14 American divisions landing at Kyushu would be 14 Japanese divisions, 7 independent mixed brigades, 3 tank brigades and thousands of naval troops. On Kyushu the odds would be 3 to 2 in favor of the Japanese, with 790,000 enemy defenders against 550,000 Americans. This time the bulk of the Japanese defenders would not be the poorly trained and ill-equipped labor battalions that the Americans had faced in the earlier campaigns.

The Japanese defenders would be the hard core of the home army. These troops were well-fed and well equipped. They were familiar with the terrain, had stockpiles of arms and ammunition, and had developed an effective system of transportation and supply almost invisible from the air. Many of these Japanese troops were the elite of the army, and they were swollen with a fanatical fighting spirit.

Japan's network of beach defenses consisted of offshore mines, thousands of suicide scuba divers attacking landing craft, and mines planted on the beaches. Coming ashore, the American Eastern amphibious assault forces at Miyazaki would face three Japanese divisions, and two others poised for counterattack. Awaiting the Southeastern attack force at Ariake Bay was an entire division and at least one mixed infantry brigade.

On the western shores of Kyushu, the Marines would face the most brutal opposition.. Along the invasion beaches would be the three Japanese divisions , a tank brigade, a mixed infantry brigade and an artillery command. Components of two divisions would also be poised to launch counterattacks.

If not needed to reinforce the primary landing beaches, the American Reserve Force would be landed at the base of Kagoshima Bay November 4, where they would be confronted by two mixed infantry brigades, parts of two infantry divisions and thousands of naval troops.

All along the invasion beaches, American troops would face coastal batteries, anti-landing obstacles and a network of heavily fortified pillboxes, bunkers, and underground fortresses. As Americans waded ashore, they would face intense artillery and mortar fire as they worked their way through concrete rubble and barbed-wire entanglements arranged to funnel them into the muzzles of these Japanese guns.

On the beaches and beyond would be hundreds of Japanese machine gun positions, beach mines, booby traps, trip-wire mines and sniper units. Suicide units concealed in "spider holes" would engage the troops as they passed nearby. In the heat of battle, Japanese infiltration units would be sent to reap havoc in the American lines by cutting phone and communication lines. Some of the Japanese troops would be in American uniform, English-speaking Japanese officers were assigned to break in on American radio traffic to call off artillery fire, to order retreats and to further confuse troops. Other infiltration with demolition charges strapped on their chests or backs would attempt to blow up American tanks, artillery pieces and ammunition stores, as they were unloaded ashore.

Beyond the beaches were large artillery pieces situated to bring down a curtain of fire on the beach. Some of these large guns were mounted on railroad tracks running in and out of caves protected by concrete and steel

The battle for Japan would be won by what Simon Bolivar Buckner, a lieutenant general in the Confederate army during the Civil War, had called "Prairie Dog Warfare." This type of fighting was almost unknown to the ground troops in Europe and the Mediterranean. It was peculiar only to the soldiers and Marines who fought the Japanese on islands all over the Pacific -- at Tarawa, Saipan, Iwo Jima and Okinawa.

Prairie Dog Warfare was a battle for yards, feet and sometimes inches. It was brutal, deadly and dangerous form of combat aimed at an underground, heavily fortified, non-retreating enemy.

In the mountains behind the Japanese beaches were underground networks of caves, bunkers, command posts and hospitals connected by miles of tunnels with dozens of entrances and exits. Some of these complexes could hold up to 1,000 troops.

In addition to the use of poison gas and bacteriological warfare (which the Japanese had experimented with), Japan mobilized its citizenry

Had Olympic come about, the Japanese civilian population, inflamed by a national slogan - "One Hundred Million Will Die for the Emperor and Nation" - were prepared to fight to the death. Twenty Eight Million Japanese had become a part of the National Volunteer Combat Force. They were armed with ancient rifles, lunge mines, satchel charges, Molotov cocktails and one-shot black powder mortars. Others were armed with swords, long bows, axes and bamboo spears. The civilian units were to be used in nighttime attacks hit and run maneuvers, delaying actions and massive suicide charges at the weaker American positions.

At the early stage of the invasion, 1,000 Japanese and American soldiers would be dying every hour.

The invasion of Japan never became a reality because on August 6, 1945, an atomic bomb was exploded over Hiroshima. Three days later, a second bomb was dropped on Nagasaki. Within days the war with Japan was at a close

Had these bombs not been dropped and had the invasion been launched as scheduled, combat casualties in Japan would have been at a minimum of the tens of thousands. Every foot of Japanese soil would have been paid for by Japanese and American lives

One can only guess at how many civilians would have committed suicide in their homes or in futile mass military attacks.

In retrospect, the 1 million American men who were to be the casualties of the invasion, were instead lucky enough to survive the war.

Intelligence studies and military estimates made 50 years ago, and not latter-day speculation, clearly indicate that the battle for Japan might well have resulted in the biggest blood-bath in the history of modern warfare

Far worse would be what might have happened to Japan as a nation and as a culture. When the invasion came, it would have come after several months of fire bombing all of the remaining Japanese cities. The cost in human life that resulted from the two atomic blasts would be small in comparison to the total number of Japanese lives that would have been lost by this aerial devastation

With American forces locked in combat in the south of Japan, little could have prevented the Soviet Union from marching into the northern half of the Japanese home islands. Japan today cold be divided much like Korea and Germany.

The world was spared the cost of Operation Downfall, however, because Japan formally surrendered to the United Nations September 2, 1945, and World War II was over.

The aircraft carriers, cruisers and transport ships scheduled to carry the invasion troops to Japan, ferried home American troops in a gigantic operation called Magic Carpet.

In the fall of 1945, in the aftermath of the war, few people concerned themselves with the invasion plans. Following the surrender, the classified documents, maps, diagrams and appendices for Operation Downfall were packed away in boxes and eventually stored at the National Archives. These plans that called for the invasion of Japan paint a vivid description of what might have been one of the most horrible campaigns in the history of man. The fact that the story of the invasion of Japan is locked up in the National Archives and is not told in our history books is something for which all Americans can be thankful.
 

Arizona Bob

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Several researchers (like Henry Stevens) have even questioned if the US had been able to produce enough enriched uranium for two bombs (as of June 1944 to Aug 1945). Little Boy used 64.15 kg of enriched uranium. Stevens also states that the US benefited from extra Nazi weapons-grade uranium and fuses, and that the two US bombs contained both Nazi uranium and fuses. Since Japan was working on their own atom bombs, it would become (ultimately) an "us or them" type of situation. The US needed to demonstrate to Japan that we had the atom bomb, and that they should cease all hostilities. In the end, the US was forced to use atom bombs against Japan- before they would believe us. The rest, as they say, is history.
 

Xraywolf

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Without a doubt the bombings were necessary and justified at the time.
It is only post war emotional strategists that argue otherwise, when men are faced with events it is a different story.
The enemy would not have hesitated to use them on us were it in his power to do so, it would have been sheer madness not to use them out of some misguided humanitarian concerns.

As rightly pointed out in the article, the supreme carnage & destruction on both sides that would have resulted from an invasion would have far, far surpassed the actual bombings by orders of magnitude ,,, And would have wrecked the infrastructure of Japan nearly to the point of beyond salvage.
 

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No, it was not a good idea to drop them on civilian targets. Out in the ocean would have been a better choice, on humanitarian grounds. The Japanese military would have gotten the hint.
 

Xraywolf

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Yeah right, I'm sure an atomic spout in the ocean would have really made them shake in their shoes.

For sake of historical accuracy, a warning shot of sorts over some desolate area [not the ocean] or at least a warning of what was to come was proposed, and rejected on the grounds that if it failed ,,, And no one could be certain if in fact this highly complex, novel weapon would even work ,, Then we would be discredited as bluffers, and a corresponding boost to Jap prestige and will power would have resulted.

It was absolutely necessary, I'm not so sure you appreciate the mass carnage that would have resulted to both sides if a full scale invasion would have been launched.
 

Arizona Bob

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czechdetectingtours.com said:
No, it was not a good idea to drop them on civilian targets. Out in the ocean would have been a better choice, on humanitarian grounds. The Japanese military would have gotten the hint.

Jméno ONE čas ve světových dějinách, kde zastřelil varování zabránit bitvu před bojoval.
 

Arizona Bob

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Okay, I'll say it in english:

Name ONE war (or battle) that has been averted by firing one warning shot.
 

Siegfried Schlagrule

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czechdetectingtours.com said:
No, it was not a good idea to drop them on civilian targets. Out in the ocean would have been a better choice, on humanitarian grounds. The Japanese military would have gotten the hint.

The Japanese military were told we had the bomb and would use it. They told the Emporer we did not. The japanese were told we had another bomb and would use it three days later and they told the emporer we did not. That indicates that bombing the ocean would not have stopped civilian deaths because they didn't take the hint even after a city was destroyed. They were told we had more weapons and would target Tokyo and the emporer ordered the surrender of Japan. siegfried schlagrule
 

Siegfried Schlagrule

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The US military ordered several million Purple Heart medals for the invasion of Japan. They are still being issued for war wounds. siegfried schlagrule
 

Xraywolf

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Siegfried Schlagrule said:
czechdetectingtours.com said:
No, it was not a good idea to drop them on civilian targets. Out in the ocean would have been a better choice, on humanitarian grounds. The Japanese military would have gotten the hint.

The Japanese military were told we had the bomb and would use it. They told the Emporer we did not. The japanese were told we had another bomb and would use it three days later and they told the emporer we did not. That indicates that bombing the ocean would not have stopped civilian deaths because they didn't take the hint even after a city was destroyed. They were told we had more weapons and would target Tokyo and the emporer ordered the surrender of Japan. siegfried schlagrule

It took the combo of the A bombs & Russia turning against her to force a surrender.

I have never heard that "The Japanese military were told we had the bomb" - Who is alleged to have told them this, when, and how ?
There were no lines of communication open with the Japanese, absolutely 0, outside of issuing public proclamations that if they don't surrender, we would destroy them.
I have studied the pacific was extensively from beginning to end, 1st I ever heard of this.
I understood just the opposite, it was debated at the highest levels whether or not a warning should be given, it was decided not to, on the grounds that if the bomb failed, we would be exposed as bluffers

Please share your source of reference for this, I am fairly certain that is an error.
 

Siegfried Schlagrule

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source is memory I don't read about world war two anymore for the last thirty years. Before that i devoured those type of history books. I didn't mean to say we told the military. I wanted to say we told the government who then asked the military for advice. Russia didn't turn her might on japan - she declared war less than a week before the surrender and after we dropped the bomb as i remember it. I remember many american generals and admirals wanted to keep the russians off the Missouri but were told to let them aboard to avoid problems. Russia seized some islands and a lot of money and then liberated but refused to release the living american prisoners held by the sons of nippon in vietnam, china and mongolia regions. Lousy allies then and lousy allies now. siegfried schlagrule
 

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Dropping the bomb in the ocean would not have convinced them, they were willing to sacrifice the civilian population to fight an invasion, the military did not believe in surrender as witnessed on the islands we had to take.

After six months of intense strategic fire-bombing of 67 Japanese cities the Hirohito regime ignored the ultimatum given by the Potsdam Declaration and still refused to surrender. Hiroshima was described as "an important army depot and port of embarkation and it was in the middle of an urban industrial area." It was a prime target, and with the number of rivers running through it, was not a good fire bomb attack..........
 

GopherDaGold

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czechdetectingtours.com said:
No, it was not a good idea to drop them on civilian targets. Out in the ocean would have been a better choice, on humanitarian grounds. The Japanese military would have gotten the hint.

No disrespect intended but this is why America DIDN'T ask for the opinion of the Czech Republic.
Or maybe it WAS intended.

Your use of the term 'civilian targets' is also incorrect. Civilians were not and are never 'targeted'.
 

Clay Lindsey

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The Japanese have always been a strong and proud warrior nation. The dropping of the bomb was a combination of both military and political strategy and tactic by the Allies. A public statement had to be made that would clearly communicate to a culture, who readily celebrated heroism in the form of suicide, that enough was enough. I am quite sure the intended targets were not the Japanese citizens, but no one can deny the collateral damage and it's effect on the history of world. It was because of the lessons learned, the "Cold War" was allowed to carry on as it did.

Clay
 

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Ladies & gentlemen: i was there, i was returning to the US for reassignment. I started with the Guadalcanal campaign on Aug. 11 1942. and was returning from the Philippines. I was at Kwajalein when Japan surrendered.

I have yet to meet a service man that didn't approve of the bombing in those days

Don Jose de La Mancha
 

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Good morning Dark Gold: relax, remember they have been the recipients of a well planned period of propaganda and conditioning since they were kiddies. On some it took more than others.

A) There were more people killed by conventional bombing than by the combined A bombs, as a matter of fact in one night alone, more Japanese were killed in Tokyo then by both A-bombs.

B) What is supposedly so horrible about A-bombs? Both cities are far more prosperous and thriving than before the attack. They haven't been made waste land for 10,000 years. ??????

Personally, I would rather be vaporized by an A-bomb than par broiled in a fire bomb raid.

C) I wonder if these bleeding hearts ever heard about the Japanese atrocities, Say Nanking where almost a million civilians were slaughtered AFTER the city had surrendered, or what happened in many other cities, such as Manilla where almost another million were killed because of the Japanese.

D) The main Japanese Army in China was still intact and engaging in a systematic slaughter of the civilians. The same army that has been credited with killing about a million Chinese because some gave aid to the Tokyo B-25 bomber crews in 1942. They almost wiped out the civilian population on the coastal areas of China so that it would never happen again.

I could go on about many things, but suffice to say that Japan was not a a poor misunderstood, and mis treated nation, but a very violent, cruel one. The A-bombs drew that to a quick close for various reasons. My only regret about the A-bomb is that it didn't happen sooner.

I believe that it was established after the war by captured documents, that Japan was within a few months of having a working A-Bomb themselves Naturally, being a peace loving nation, they would never have used it.

I suggest that those that were not there, reread their history, not present books, but what was written shortly after the War, while the memory as still vivid and not modified to be politically correct..

The basic line is that King Aurthur's knights rules no longer apply to modern war, civilians are a legitimate target, since without them, the War machine cannot continue.

Don Jose de La Mancha

p.s. For the record, I have a full blooded Japanese adopted sister, Mitsuki Nakamura, who was adopted by my parents in the 40's. A beautiful gal
 

TheHarleyMan2

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I studied WW2 ever since I was in elementry school because my father was a Marine on Iwo Jima and told me stories. If I read any book even to this day or anything on history channel, etc. It is always about WW2.

The plan for the invasion of Japan was not declassified until a couple of years ago. People have to remember that during Japan's riegn of terror, the Japanese Army was not only killing civilians but also bayoneting and throwing babies in the air cutting them with Samuri Swords and laughing about it. It is wrong to take any innocent civilian lives, but the horror the Japanese did even to babies were ruthless!

One thing about the Japanese civilian, all the facts posted to them to "surender or else". The Japanese government brain washed their people to fight to the death, including civilians and that is what they believed. Just look at the Kamikazi pilots. Who in their right mind would fly a plane, commit suicide, and not even sink a ship in most cases? Grant 1 person taking more than a few sailors with one plane and inflict some damage, but it leaves one not to fight another day. That was the reason Japan lost most if it's great experienced pilots.

So the Japanese lived by the Samuri Way, "Fight to the death"

Grant though, many who has read history, after we dropped the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasake, NOBODY, I MEAN NOBODY wanted to do any battles with us much less give us crap and slap us in the face like some of these countries have been doing since the late 60's until today that is still going on.

Yes, you have to use drastic measures and means sometimes to save lives, but it also creates peace with countries not to even fool with us.

Being a veteran for 20 years, myself as well as other vets and non vets who are getting tired of wars, conflicts, and the other crap that goes on and not get these wars over and done with have one or more opinions on this whole world of events happening today that should be done with drastic measures.

I been to Iraq, I been to Afghanistan. Yes, there are civilians in those countries who are glad we are there to give them freedom and build democracy, but you have a lot of them that are 2 faced, ie, "Recieves money for information on weapons, terrorist information, etc" only to be on or for the other side so to speak, so it costs American lives. Heck, if someone was giving me $25,000 or $50,000 a pop, and/or building me a school, hospital, food, medicine, clothing, phones, electricity, water, etc, where none was before for 100's of years before, sure I will be your friend, in fact I would be YOUR BEST FRIEND and I will tell you just what you want to hear, even if I have to lie to get money and free everything from you. It doesn't mean I am going to let you take over my country that, myself or my forefathers have lived the same way for 100's of years prior to you invading my country and if I was a person whose brother was fighting for my cause and country, sure I will take your money and anything else you want to give me, and help and pray my brothers kill as many of you as he and his comrades can.

Get my drift? That is how it is working in Iraq and Afghanistan. Other vets who have been there can testify to this. Sure we get a small number of crooked civilians who work for or inform Al-qaeda, but there is way more than what is being captured or killed.

Dropping and Thermo Nuclear Bomb on a target will turn everything in a 300 mile radius into a glass lake. Think about it, if we had done that many many years ago for people or coutries who took actions against American civilians in their countries or terroristic attacks on American soil, it may take a second TNB to get the word we are serious. That would stop all the B.S. period!

Then there would not have been a 9/11, (maybe), but there certainly wouldn't be anything called a terrorist group against us either by any group or country. In fact there certainly would be peace and no wars or conflicts.
 

Darkgold

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Jan 30, 2007
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TheHarleyMan2 said:
I studied WW2 ever since I was in elementry school because my father was a Marine on Iwo Jima and told me stories. If I read any book even to this day or anything on history channel, etc. It is always about WW2.

The plan for the invasion of Japan was not declassified until a couple of years ago. People have to remember that during Japan's riegn of terror, the Japanese Army was not only killing civilians but also bayoneting and throwing babies in the air cutting them with Samuri Swords and laughing about it. It is wrong to take any innocent civilian lives, but the horror the Japanese did even to babies were ruthless!

One thing about the Japanese civilian, all the facts posted to them to "surender or else". The Japanese government brain washed their people to fight to the death, including civilians and that is what they believed. Just look at the Kamikazi pilots. Who in their right mind would fly a plane, commit suicide, and not even sink a ship in most cases? Grant 1 person taking more than a few sailors with one plane and inflict some damage, but it leaves one not to fight another day. That was the reason Japan lost most if it's great experienced pilots.

So the Japanese lived by the Samuri Way, "Fight to the death"

Grant though, many who has read history, after we dropped the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasake, NOBODY, I MEAN NOBODY wanted to do any battles with us much less give us crap and slap us in the face like some of these countries have been doing since the late 60's until today that is still going on.

Yes, you have to use drastic measures and means sometimes to save lives, but it also creates peace with countries not to even fool with us.

Being a veteran for 20 years, myself as well as other vets and non vets who are getting tired of wars, conflicts, and the other crap that goes on and not get these wars over and done with have one or more opinions on this whole world of events happening today that should be done with drastic measures.

I been to Iraq, I been to Afghanistan. Yes, there are civilians in those countries who are glad we are there to give them freedom and build democracy, but you have a lot of them that are 2 faced, ie, "Recieves money for information on weapons, terrorist information, etc" only to be on or for the other side so to speak, so it costs American lives. Heck, if someone was giving me $25,000 or $50,000 a pop, and/or building me a school, hospital, food, medicine, clothing, phones, electricity, water, etc, where none was before for 100's of years before, sure I will be your friend, in fact I would be YOUR BEST FRIEND and I will tell you just what you want to hear, even if I have to lie to get money and free everything from you. It doesn't mean I am going to let you take over my country that, myself or my forefathers have lived the same way for 100's of years prior to you invading my country and if I was a person whose brother was fighting for my cause and country, sure I will take your money and anything else you want to give me, and help and pray my brothers kill as many of you as he and his comrades can.

Get my drift? That is how it is working in Iraq and Afghanistan. Other vets who have been there can testify to this. Sure we get a small number of crooked civilians who work for or inform Al-qaeda, but there is way more than what is being captured or killed.

Dropping and Thermo Nuclear Bomb on a target will turn everything in a 300 mile radius into a glass lake. Think about it, if we had done that many many years ago for people or coutries who took actions against American civilians in their countries or terroristic attacks on American soil, it may take a second TNB to get the word we are serious. That would stop all the B.S. period!

Then there would not have been a 9/11, (maybe), but there certainly wouldn't be anything called a terrorist group against us either by any group or country. In fact there certainly would be peace and no wars or conflicts.

300 mile radius is wrong. It is actually has a 30 to 110 mile radius back then. But either way you are right.
 

TheHarleyMan2

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Feb 27, 2008
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I was actually refering to today's Thermonuclear Bombs and not the Fission Atom Bombs used on Japan. With todays wars and conflicts refering to the technology and weapon strength we have weapon systems are more powerful than ever before. I know I read it somewhere about the mile radious it destroys. Of course you haev to calculate how much nuclear compounds to use for X amount of damage and effectiveness.
 

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