Are PI machines worth having?

[John (Ma)]

I have a Minlab excal 1000 that is an awsome machine. However, am I missing something by not having a PI machine? I mostly hunt area lakes and ponds with the occasional Atlantic Ocean. Thanks

 

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[S.S.Tupperware]

Yes they are I have found gold in sweetwater along with a million tabs, but I must admit I get frustrated during sparkler season at times down at the beach.

 

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[Tom_in_CA]

Sandman is right: They are excellent on depth, excellent in nasty minerals (even up to jet-black cr*p) and get even the tiniest of tinsel thin chains (that standard discriminators can miss) etc.... Sounds great, right? I mean, who can argue with all those plusses, right? But the "rub" is, that you won't have any form of discrimination, except perhaps your ears (second guessing all the signals). I've heard some pulse users claim they can pass nails, paper clips, bobby pins, etc.... by sounds and tones. And some of them do a pretty impressive job at it, after many year's experience. But if you pressed them for details, they'd admit that "nagging doubts" will send them back to dig some "just to be sure". Also I would wonder if those double beeps, or other such sounds-games they use to discern nails, might also be the sound a dangly chain or gold stick pin or whatever would give?

If you hunt touristy clean beaches, where nails, to begin with, are not a big problem, then I suppose give it a try. But if you hunt beaches with a lot of iron it can be a problem. Like industrial history (wharves that have burned down, commercial fishing usage, etc..) and beaches that allow beach bonfires (where burned pallets introduce nails), then you might find go psycho trying to use a pulse.

I have seen a lot of guys in my area, get lulled in by the "beach" advertisements of various pulse machines, try pulse machines here. But even those that claim to discern nails by sound, don't last long on nail riddled beaches. They leave for greener grounds, and sometimes those beaches they leave are excellent beaches (since mother nature leaves nails and coins/jewelry in the same erosion zones). And I've seen several times where they totally ditch their pulse machines when they see they're digging 5 to 10 iron for each conductive target, while the guy with an Excaliber or whatever is digging 100% conductive targets and no iron at all. Yes, the pulse guy will get an earing stud that the other guy would miss, but it's all in the odds. Ie.: do you take a hit in black-jack if you have 20 in your hand? Or do you "hold"? Why wouldn't you take a hit since the next card MIGHT be a one card? Obviously the odds are, that it's not a one card, so you "hold". Same logic for some metal detecting choices. It all depends on the target spread, your patience and time, the type beach, your competition, etc....

 

[erikk]

Sandman is right: They are excellent on depth, excellent in nasty minerals (even up to jet-black cr*p) and get even the tiniest of tinsel thin chains (that standard discriminators can miss) etc.... Sounds great, right? I mean, who can argue with all those plusses, right?

Silver chains maybe but NOT GOLD CHAINS at least not tthe Sea Hunter MK2 or the Infinium Don't know about the rest cause I don't hunt them

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Erik, I think you got my quote backwards. I was saying the pulse machines are excellent on dainty little things and black-sand. Not standard coin/jewelry discriminator machines.

 

[DaChief]

Au contraire mon fraire!

Come on Tom! You speak of a machine that according to your post, you have obviously never used. You are right about some things but so wrong about others.

I have hunted some "trashy beaches" with my Sovereign and with my Infinium and I will tell you that a Sovereign and an Excalibur will hit on a rusty nail as a good target just like any PI machine will.

I have never used and Excalibur but all Exalibur users know that it is a Waterproofed Sovereign. Everything works the same. So as a Sovereign user, at the beach, it wet conditions, I can say that I know the capabilities of both the Excal and Infinium. I would not mind and would not hesitate using an Excal if I had one and I could buy one today, it is just that I find, (personal preference), that for finding Gold, you can't beat the PI, or at least the one I own.

I have hunted with many of Mel Fisher's crew and I can tell you that they use PI machines almost exclusively, with the Garrett SeaHunter being one of their most used units, unless they have some guests that come along who bring their VLF machines. Florida Shipwrecks that they are working are loaded with iron relics.

I will give you there are lots of great VLF machines out there, the Excalibur in my opinion has to be the best but their are PI machines capable of discrimination to a degree, the Infinium being one and I have no issues working trashy areas with it. I can tell you that as lazy as I am, if the Infinium were causing me a hardship I would dump it in a minute but I love the machine, the stability if offers and the fact that it is built like a tank.

If you look at my list of detectors I use, you will see four different manufacturers represented. I actually have 6 different detectors from those four groups. I love them all and would love an Excalibur too but I just don't need one with the results I get from the Infinium.

If all those PI users out there were wanting to dump their PI machines, I would believe that there would be no market for them. They are still strong sellers. I am sure that the law of supply and demand would have eliminated the PI machine long ago if they were the terrible beasts that you make of them. Fact is, they are getting better by the year and even at their primitive stages, they were in demand.

The ney sayers keep reinforcing my statement that it is a personal choice. Before I bought the Infinium, I mad e agood and bad list of every water machine out there. I also had a list of what I was looking for in a water machine, (My personal preferences). After comparing the good with the bad things of all detectors and checking off what was being offered that matched my personal preferences, there was only one choice and I made it and I have never regretted it.

I would say to anyone considering buying a machine to make a list of what you are looking for in a water detector first. Then read thoroughly about what is being said about each machine by people who actually use them and who are not reps or dealers of a particular brand or manufacturer, (thay are all over this website and the internet.) Make notes of the good and bad about what you read, and then start striking machines off your list that don't match the criteria of your original personal list and you will come up with an obvious choice. You will be happy. It may be an Excal and it may be a PI machine but you will make the right decision for you.

P.S. Some of my personal preferences on my original list for a Salt Water Machine:

Discrimination Capability
Multiple Field Changeable Coils
Field Detachable Headphones
Simplicity in Use and Settings
Reliability and Durability
Fast and Reliable Customer Service and Repair During Warranty

This was my list and this was what caused the Infinium to be my choice.

DaChief

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Da-chief, you say: "a Sovereign and an Excalibur will hit on a rusty nail as a good target just like any PI machine will". Are you talking about the all-metal mode of these machines, or the disc. mode? 'Cuz if you mean the disc. mode, something is very wrong with that statement. They will reject nails like there's no tomorrow in disc. mode. Sorry. Lost ya.

I didn't mean to imply that there was no over-riding benefits to pulse machines, for some environments. But for a nail-riddled environment? If you worked some of our beaches here after a storm, where 1) nails can be so thick, they look like tooth-picks lying all over the ground, and 2) depth is not a issue, because storm erosion leaves targets everywhere, as fast as you can dig, and 3) black-sand minerals are not an issue, as they are moderate beaches, then yes: you would be left in the dust, hating life, if trying to use a pulse in those instances.

 

[Big1011Guy]

Man, some of Ya'll are "Really Passionate" about What Metal Detector You "PREFER". Which is a good thing, so don't jump my *##, OK?
I still "PREFER" The Garrett Sea Hunter Mark II PI Metal Detector.
It is Built Solid - Waterproof, Sandproof and Newbieproof - Works When I Need/Want It To - Simple to Operate - Finds all Kinds Of Neat Metal Stuff - And The Yellow Paint Job Makes It Look Cool and Easy to Spot when I Trip and Drop it in The Surf
I did what Da Chief said to do, I tried to figure out what I Preferred in a Metal Detecting Machine and Then Researched to see what Detector was in my "Price Range", which always seems to be the Most Dominating Issue. I am Very Satisfied with my Choice and still have Money Left Over to Put Food In My Big Belly
Guy

 

[Sandman]

I feel that I should clarify a statement that DaChief made concerning the Excal and Sov hitting on a rusty nail just like a PI. The Excal an Sov naturally will sound off on a nail in All Metal, which is Pinpoint on the Excal. In Disc mode however both detectors Ignore iron nails but can respond to the larger ones and if they are rusty with the saltwater eatting on them they also appear much larger to the detectors. Also remember that not all nails are made of iron or steel.

I've used quite a few PI's and at this stage of my life I am tired and sometimes feel dragging a magnet along the sand to snag a non US coin is about all the "fun" I want. NO digging needed.

 

[DaChief]

You NAILED it Sandman.

Not picking a fight with you Tom. I just love a spirited debate! Great to carry on with you my friend.

DaChief

 

[mountainman 2]

I don't own either a Soverign or Excalibur. I took my White's surfmaster PI out last Saturday and dug about a hundred nails but also got a small gold religious metal. One thing i do notice is that usually a nail will be off to the side of the coil while a coin or item of jewelry will be in the center. If I don't find the target in the 1st or 2nd scoop, it's usually iron. The machine is very stable, not a peep out of it until it's over a target.

 

[John (Ma)]

I had a chance to go to the salt beach yesterday with the Excal and ended up with 71 cents and plenty of trash. Would I have done better with a PI machine, maybe? I think I will stick with the Excal for now for the few times I go to salt. I also have to plan the tides better, lol. I didn't get alot of time in the wet sand.

Also, points made above about fresh water targets being plentiful due to the inability to break down like the salt makes sense. I am going to look for a back up water machine, but I think I want the discrimination. I dig almost everything, but do not want to be digging alot of iron or bobby pins that are found in the fresh water that I mostly hunt. Thanks for all of the input, it's been great!