Run In With City "Official" At Rochester, NY Beach

[srcdco]

Run In With City "Official" At Rochester, NY Beach

I have been pondering whether to post this or not and I finally decided to go ahead. I'm sure some of you will say I was in the wrong and some will say that the city person was in the wrong. Either way, here goes my story.

This was on July 6. I decided to go to one of the Rochester, NY beaches, owned by the city. I haven't been to this beach in years. I got up early and went to get there before it opened to stay out of the way of bathers. I was in the water for about 30 minutes when a person came down to the beach and started yelling at me about not reading signs, breaking the law, etc. I could tell he was pissed, and that there was no way that I was going to be able to continue in the water, so I pulled my headphones off and said "I'm sorry I couldn't hear you". Then he really went into a rant about no one being allowed in the water when the beach is "closed" and that he's tired of telling people to get out, especially with metal detectors. I came over to him and mentioned that it was obvious that someone had beaten me to it (there were spots where holes had been dug recently and I only found a quarter - plus $10 in paper money). His response was that I was the third person in the last two days that he'd kicked out and that he wasn't going to put up with it anymore. I was the last person that he was going to tell, from now on he's just going to call the police and have them arrest people for trespassing on city property. He then said that our digging in the water stirred up the bottom and when he takes his water samples to determine if the water is safe that it causes the bacteria readings to be high and they have to close the beach. I don't believe a word of that. As we were walking back to the car, he commented about "all of that for 75 or 80 cents in change", to which I replied (yes to get him again) that the change is not what we're looking for, it's jewelry. He really got mad then and "informed" me that according to both the city ordinance and state law (I haven't verified either of these) that valuable, personal property must be turned in so that it can be returned to its owner and that it's illegal for me (us) to keep it. He did say that the sand area is ok to detect, but that the water is off-limits. I did get the guy's name from his badge that he was wearing. I have thought of contacting the city to complain about how rude he was, but I haven't decided on that yet.

At that, I left. I do know that when I checked many years ago, New York does have a law on the books that requires someone that finds valuable, personal items to "go to reasonable expense to return the item to its rightful owner". In my case "reasonable expense" is 0. I'm happy to attempt to find something for someone if they ask me, and I have many times and I never ask for anything in return. But, I'm not spending anything to try to find the owner of anything I find when no one's around.

Scott

 

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[Tom_in_CA]

Re: Run In With City "Official" At Rochester, NY Beach

srcdco, I will address this one part of your post, where you say:

"He really got mad then and "informed" me that according to both the city ordinance and state law (I haven't verified either of these) that valuable, personal property must be turned in so that it can be returned to its owner and that it's illegal for me (us) to keep it. "

Believe it or not, .... YES, there is lost and found laws, in every single state. The exact wording may vary a little from state to state, and the threshold of value criteria, dictating at what point you have to turn things in to the police, may vary too. In CA, for example, the point at which a person is required to turn something in to the police, is $100, per Civil Code section 2080 - 2080.10. The law doesn't state how that is valued. Ie.: is that the scrap melt value? Or the value that the person paid the jewelry store for it the day before? Or how about the intrinsic value of prescription glasses? Perhaps they have absolutely no value to anyone finding them. But to the poor guy who has to go back to the optomotrist to get replacements, perhaps he's just spent $100+? I posed these questions to a lawyer once, and here was his answer (no kidding): If in doubt, turn them in to the police, and they will let you know. Or ask the D.A., and see how they would interpret, etc... (for cases in which they'd decide to prosecute or not, people failing to follow the law).

The principle is simple: if they didn't have such lost & found laws, there would be nothing to stop you from scooping up wads of cash from if a door accidentally swung open on a brinks armored car, right? Or every thief, when caught with stolen articles, could merely say "I found it on the sidewalk", and so forth. So the principle is commendable, for returning cattle that wander away, and so forth. But the rub is, *technically* we md'rs are caught in the same snare.

Yup, every time you log on to the beach hunting forums, and see those guys posting their latest rings, they are all breaking the law (and boasting about it on public forums too!). And law makes no distinction on when you think an item was lost (ie.: if the item was a foot deep in firm dry sand, evidencing that it had been there for years, etc...)

If this type thing bothers md'rs, it's possible they've chosen the wrong hobby. Because to be in full compliance, you need to be turning the things in. If they're not claimed after 30 days, then you can go claim it. In CA, if the objects value exceeds $250, the police will run a "found" ad in the paper. If no one still claims, it then you can keep it. But get this: guess who pays for the cost of the publication notice in the newspaper?? YOU DO.

I have a hunch that if you turned in a nice Rolex watch, that someone there at the police dept. might merely call their cousin joe, and say "hey joe, want a nice rolex? just come down to the police dept, and describe these features, and presto, you'll have yourself a nice rolex". I've often thought about using my own wedding ring to see if this theory is true, and giving it to various police dept's to test to see if I get it back.

Bottom line is, it's true, there's lost & found laws in every state.

 

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[Aka Nameless]

Re: Run In With City "Official" At Rochester, NY Beach

Until California changes their crazy laws on finding items, nobody is going to follow the laws. Of the thousands of detectorists in Cali, I doubt there are over 10 people that actually follow those crazy laws, and those 10 people get the shaft for following the rules.

Over 50 years old, and over $100, you are expected to turn into the police. Give me a break.

If you hand a $1,000 ring to the police department don't expect to get it back. It will be "claimed" every time, even if it was lost 50 years ago.

Thankfully (sadly) I have never found anything really valuable like that, so I haven't had to break the law. Except this 1943 merc (worth maybe $3) that I found, that I should probably go turn in to the P.D..........................................................................

I'm curious how the guys who find valuable diamond rings sell them, just tell the pawn shop it belonged to your grandmother? I couldn't bring myself to melt down a diamond ring for the gold and get the diamond back. Losing a lot of money doing that.

 

[ivan salis]

Re: Run In With City "Official" At Rochester, NY Beach

normally things marked with names or letters --say a wedding ring or school ring --( jones high class of 79 -- WTF) --would require you to make an attempt to find the owner (WTF) to be "legally yours" by law -- via the possible owner not claiming it*** -- but a plain jane unmarked wedding band and such --well theres about a 0 % chance of mating it up with its past owner and I like most other detectorist will go --hmm my lucky day -- I think that thats fair --if it means so much to you "mark it" or even better yet how about not wearing it to a beach ( a high risk of loss place)--DUH --(if its "not clearly marked as to owner or easy to figger out who the "lawful" owner was *)--its fair game (mine) in my book.

 

[ron lord]

Re: Run In With City "Official" At Rochester, NY Beach

The different between a swimmer and one with a MD is that a person with the MD is a Wader ,swimmers propels throw the water by moving their hands and feet , a digger or person with a MD walk with feet on the ground and this is called Wader not swimming ,anyway that's what the Judge said when this went to court in my town.The rule was swimmers keep away 150 feet from the Pier.Even the Dictionary say they are different.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Re: Run In With City "Official" At Rochester, NY Beach

I'm curious how the guys who find valuable diamond rings sell them, just tell the pawn shop it belonged to your grandmother? I couldn't bring myself to melt down a diamond ring for the gold and get the diamond back. Losing a lot of money doing that.

My wife gets first choice on all my finds, for some strange reason she seems to jump right on the lady's diamond rings.... She has 6 that I found, I have 2 she didnt want...... I will melt the gold down and keep the stones to have a ring made out of down the road.....

I have found 3 diamond earrings, she didnt want them becasue they were not mates so I will melt them down and keep the stones from them as well....

As far as losing money, you can't lose money if you found it.....A ring that cost $5000 new would be lucky to bring $2000 when sold if that....They are like cars, drive them off the lot and they greatly depreciate....

 

[Aka Nameless]

Re: Run In With City "Official" At Rochester, NY Beach

I heard that ARA now buys diamonds? That true? Would make everything much easier.

 

[AdamBuchanan]

Re: Run In With City "Official" At Rochester, NY Beach

Hello to all, this topic seems to hit home with all of us due to running into similar run ins while hunting.
This hobby is the best hobby in my opinion and no matter when or where, folks will always wonder what we find. I myself chuckle somewhat in that there are finds that each and everyone of us has found that we are smart enough not to post due to opinions our peers will express. I find that sometimes officials attempt to enforce laws in which they do not know the correct law. Education, good judgment, and curtiousy go a long ways and the few folks that have none of these attributes ruin the hobby for the rest of us. That being said, say the swimming area in question is approached by water by boat with the boat being anchored in a few ft of water, where city or county property was not crossed or used to gain access , I wonder if there is specific laws written to suspend our hunting ? Sometimes I believe we have to help ourselves in not causing ourselves so much attention to our hobby. I don't know, but , I do love thinking outside the box and enjoy reading everyone's input..happy hunting to all..

 

[Buried Crap NJ]

Re: Run In With City "Official" At Rochester, NY Beach

Most of the time this is just it, its how you access the are you are hunting.Most cases the high water mark is a free area to all but you must access it via a free access point provided by law. When you walk onto a close beach though the ticket gate, this is trespassing. For you, the dog walkers, kids, Frisbee throwers. The ones that get removed is the one the public has the problem with today that may just be metal detecting, tomorrow its the teenage drinking kids. When I access the beach via badge there is no problems, cross the line in the sand to a new beach and they tell me I can not enter as I don't have a badge, 20 people without detectors just did the same thing and the did not say a word, reason its below the high water mark. As I point this little rule out they turn and walk away. Its just what you come to expect when someone feels what we are doing is wrong! Many times I have had to go to old motels on river beaches to hunt by boat. Both the police and State Marine police have been called, in all cases I have been allowed to stay so long as you keep the proper distance from moored boats and structures! I thing this was 15 ft?