Best PI machine for Salt beach

[dirtdigger1581]

I'm thinking about buying a PI machine for hunting the wet sand and shallow water(up to chest deep) of a salt water beach. I'm wondering what the opinions of everyone here are as to what PI machine is best for this application. I currently use an Excal II for the beach and it's been great, but I've heard there is a big depth advantage over the Excal when going to a PI machine. How deep can they actually get compared to the Excal? I don't mind digging a few more targets while on the beach if it gets me a few more goodies that are missed by the Excal. What's everyone's take on this? And what does anyone have experience with? Thanks for your help!

Happy Hunting!

-Nate

 

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[DewGuru]

Depends what you mean by "small gold". If you're talking about something like the back of an earring, I don;t think there is a detector made today that can find one in the wet salt sand. If you're talking about small gold rings, the answer can really vary from beach to beach based on salt content and ground mineralization. Though expecting 6"-8" does not seem a tall unreasonable. As to gold chains, you have a similar problem. No PI or vlf detector really hits on these unless the clasp on the chain is large enough or if there is a pendant attached to the ring that the detector can lock on to. You'll likely notice that gold chains tends to be the least found of the valuable objects pulled from the sand, no matter which detector you are using.

Depends what you mean by "small gold". If you're talking about something like the back of an earring, I don;t think there is a detector made today that can find one in the wet salt sand.

We find them here on a regular basis with the Shark. I consider them to be nuisance items.

 

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[Terry Soloman]

Ha! I love the whole "u/s" theory. LOL. Yep. Sand Shark is surely lacking in small gold, aint it Terry?

Just a few of the Small gold items, that the Shark doesn't find.

I wonder if I should post some of the big gold, that it also doesnt find, lol.

Fact: If you have a can of corn that costs $5 and a can of corn costs $1, guess what? The $1 can tastes as good, if not better, than the $5 can. Corn is corn.

Bingo!

 

[Terry Soloman]

We find them here on a regular basis with the Shark. I consider them to be nuisance items.

They just can't stand us.. LOL!

 

[Terry Soloman]

THe C-Scope P.I.'s are also originally Eric Foster designs but do lack a few vital controls (but are cheap and easy to get repaired if needed). Headhunter has the depth with the large coil and is very sensitive to thin silver and gold chains with the smaller fitted. Still does eat batteries but there's great new batteries out there. Pulse delay is 15 to 40 compared to the D.F.'s 15 and the Tesoro lagging at 22.

Eric Foster does seem to have retired from producing detectors but is still working with other companies. Hopefully the Pulse Devil and Surf Devil will help fill the gap in time.

Most required control in my view is an adjustable SAT control. Whilst others have to reduce their sensitivity to gold to deal with black sand and volcanic issues adjustment of the SAT deals with any problems with having to offset other controls from their best settings. Can also be used to sharpen up the audio signal aiding with both I.D. and pinpointing.

Brian, when are you and the others going to stop regurgitating this pulse delay myth? Pulse delay by itself means nothing. Geesh, you would think people would know better by now. Live and learn..

 

[dirtdigger1581]

Brian, when are you and the others going to stop regurgitating this pulse delay myth? Pulse delay by itself means nothing. Geesh, you would think people would know better by now. Live and learn..

Can you elaborate on this Terry? What is this myth all about? I've seen the u/s and pulse delay mentioned in this thread and others, but it doesn't mean anything to me. Can someone you explain it and what it's affect is, and why it's a myth? Thanks!

 

[Terry Soloman]

Can you elaborate on this Terry? What is this myth all about? I've seen the u/s and pulse delay mentioned in this thread and others, but it doesn't mean anything to me. Can someone you explain it and what it's affect is, and why it's a myth? Thanks!

The detector sends out an electronic pulse and “waits” for a set amount of time to reset and “read” the return signal. This is done to ensure the signal has enough time to travel to, and start back from the target. This is commonly called “Pulse Delay.” For a more in depth explanation take a look at this:

http://www.pcte.com.au/Documents/Pr...Data-Sheet-(Pulse-Induction-Covermeters).aspx

What the Whites dealers try and make you believe, is that you are going to get “deeper,” “smaller” targets with a pulse delay of 15, than you are with 20 (on a scale of 6-35). It is pure fantasy. The theory is based on pulse delay alone, taking nothing else – including power supply and tuning, into consideration.

It is like saying 17Khz is better at finding small, sub-gram gold nuggets than 78Khz with a VLF machine. Sounds pretty good to folks that don’t know any better. Kinda like Communism – “Looks good on paper!” But gold prospectors that have used the Fisher Goldbug II, and the Tesoro Lobo know better.

Don’t let sales hype be sold to you as fact. There is too much of that in this hobby, and too many hobbyists parroting bad information and embarrassing themselves. Now, there are going to be a lot of hurt feelings, and some Eric Foster wannabes WILL start spouting off, but the proof is in my bank account folks.

 

[Smudge]

Intersting Dewguru. I have yet to find a single one. You make me wonder if I had some bad settings.

 

[DewGuru]

Intersting Dewguru. I have yet to find a single one. You make me wonder if I had some bad settings.

If your settings are allowing you to find stud earrings themselves, you're good to go. As far as my own settings go, I run the width just a hair over the factory default setting, which is indicated by an arrow on the dial. volume at 3/4 turn, and in VCO mode.

 

[Terry Soloman]

If your settings are allowing you to find stud earrings themselves, you're good to go. As far as my own settings go, I run the width just a hair over the factory default setting, which is indicated by an arrow on the dial. volume at 3/4 turn, and in VCO mode.

And an EXCELLENT point DG! A lot of people don't understand you can use too much power and in certain sands, it is like turning your brights on in fog, you'll see the guardrail when you get close enough, but you won't see the pothole in front of it. You have to learn to use every detector. The Dual Field will do everything my Sand Shark will do, but I don't like the price, the set up on the volume control, or the fact that the coil is so hard to keep down in the water compared to the thin coil of the Sand Shark. The two machines have exactly the same capabilities, although I think I have a slight edge on small gold studs with my 8" coil. Hey Robert! You reading this? How small was that gold picker we buried?

 

[dirtdigger1581]

I want to say thanks again to everyone who's contributed here on my question about PI's. I feel there's been a lot of good information shared and I've learned quite a bit about PI's. I have to say a special thanks today especially to StormSurge. Today Stormsurge and I hit Virginia Beach at low tide and he let me take his Sandshark for a run in the surf. I set him free with my Excal II while I played with the shark. I really enjoyed the couple hours hunting in the wet sand and knee deep surf today. The fact that you only get one tone and all metal makes digging every hole filled with excitement and anticipation to see what it is you're diggin up. Almost every signal I dug today was a deep one. The shallowest target was about 4 inches and the deepest had to be a cell phone that was every bit of 18" down. Very impressed with the depth of the machine. The threshhold held steady when going from the wet sand into the froth which is nice. It was windy at the beach today so it was a little hard to hear the thresh at times as the earcups weren't as snug a fit as I'm used to. Not terrible though. I found the thin search coil had a mind of its own when swinging side to side through the shallows. It felt like it was darting all over the place which is my only real complaint. It felt smooth but watching it in the water I could see it darting up and down while being swept from side to side. Had to really focus on it staying level when in the water. Something that would prove difficult I feel if in some deeper water and not able to see the coil. All in all though the machine performed very well and for the price and warranty I can see why so many love this machine. It's a very strong contender for sure! Big thanks to StormSurge for his generosity in letting me take his machine for a spin. Thank you!

On a side note, while using Stormsurge's shark I notice him digging a hole near the surf's edge using only his hand. He said he had a good sounding signal but couldn't get to it digging with his hand so I came over and took a big scoop with my Gold-scoop 8" bucket. Dug down in the wet sand a good 8" and plopped the scoop out to sort. Immediately I saw what he had shining from the side of the sand pile. He had the winning ticket for the day and nice one at that. It wasn't gold, but it's the next best thing.

.925!!! Congrats on a great ring StormSurge!!! Looking forward to getting back out there with you!

Take care everyone and Happy Hunting!

-Nate

 

[DewGuru]

I found the thin search coil had a mind of its own when swinging side to side through the shallows. It felt like it was darting all over the place which is my only real complaint. It felt smooth but watching it in the water I could see it darting up and down while being swept from side to side. Had to really focus on it staying level when in the water. Something that would prove difficult I feel if in some deeper water and not able to see the coil. All in all though the machine performed very well and for the price and warranty I can see why so many love this machine. It's a very strong contender for sure!

Nothing better than using one first hand! In a fair surf/current, the coil can kick up or down from time to time. An $8 coil stabilizer cures that right up.

Nice hunt!

 

[hobbit]

Do yourself a favor and keep testing.

 

[hobbit]

One of the great things about PI's is that you can easily test them against one another. No need to bury the sample targets. You have to conduct the test the right way, though. I used to think that PI's didn't air test well...that is not the case. I just did not know what I was doing. Do a Google search of "PI air test eric foster wood interference" and you will readily find the information I am talking about. If you don't believe Eric Foster...well...he is probably the most knowledgeable PI designer on the planet. He moderates a "PI Technology Forum" which is a wealth of information. Get a few PI's together by hook or cook and test them against each other with various targets. Borrow them. Invite others to join in the test. Apples to apples, oranges to oranges. See what you find. If what you are looking for is the deepest detecting machine on small low conductors you will NOT be buying the Tesoro Sand Shark. I love the Sand Shark. It has other virtues. I posted those that I like previously. I am now going to compare apples to oranges. I am opening myself up for ridicule, but I don't mind: in a lightly mineralized salt water beach environment (those may not be your conditions), the Sand Shark optimumly set with an 8 inch coil is not as deep as a properly tuned White's BHID in all metal with a 10 inch coil. And the BHID, even in all metal, still gives visual target ID, though not tone ID. There is another advantage: The visual target ID on the BHID does not work on deeply buried objects. Why is that an advantage? It is a kind of "depth indicator", similar to what you get with a Nautilus DMCIIba where you work in all metal with low sensitivity on one channel and discriminate with high sensitivity on the other. If the all metal side does not sound off, but the descriminate does, you know you've got a deep non ferrous target. Similar deal with the BHID. If you get an audible signal, but the lights don't flash, you know you've got a deep target (or possibly a very small one) which may or may not be iron. I like this because I don't trust ANY machine's discrimination on very deep targets, including the EXCAL. And it is really nice to know when you've got a deep target in the surf. All that being said, the Sand Shark will blow away the BHID in an area with lots of black sand. The BHID is a very poor detector on the beaches of Southern California, for instance.

 

[dbsmokey]

Do yourself a favor and keep testing.

This is VERY interesting; especially the PI air test advice by Eric Foster. All is needed is a piece of wood. Thanks for the information. I wonder how mineralized the soils are in Hawaii and how people do with PIs vs. VLFs....

 

[StormSurge]

I want to say thanks again to everyone who's contributed here on my question about PI's. I feel there's been a lot of good information shared and I've learned quite a bit about PI's. I have to say a special thanks today especially to StormSurge. Today Stormsurge and I hit Virginia Beach at low tide and he let me take his Sandshark for a run in the surf. I set him free with my Excal II while I played with the shark. I really enjoyed the couple hours hunting in the wet sand and knee deep surf today. The fact that you only get one tone and all metal makes digging every hole filled with excitement and anticipation to see what it is you're diggin up. Almost every signal I dug today was a deep one. The shallowest target was about 4 inches and the deepest had to be a cell phone that was every bit of 18" down. Very impressed with the depth of the machine. The threshhold held steady when going from the wet sand into the froth which is nice. It was windy at the beach today so it was a little hard to hear the thresh at times as the earcups weren't as snug a fit as I'm used to. Not terrible though. I found the thin search coil had a mind of its own when swinging side to side through the shallows. It felt like it was darting all over the place which is my only real complaint. It felt smooth but watching it in the water I could see it darting up and down while being swept from side to side. Had to really focus on it staying level when in the water. Something that would prove difficult I feel if in some deeper water and not able to see the coil. All in all though the machine performed very well and for the price and warranty I can see why so many love this machine. It's a very strong contender for sure! Big thanks to StormSurge for his generosity in letting me take his machine for a spin. Thank you!

On a side note, while using Stormsurge's shark I notice him digging a hole near the surf's edge using only his hand. He said he had a good sounding signal but couldn't get to it digging with his hand so I came over and took a big scoop with my Gold-scoop 8" bucket. Dug down in the wet sand a good 8" and plopped the scoop out to sort. Immediately I saw what he had shining from the side of the sand pile. He had the winning ticket for the day and nice one at that. It wasn't gold, but it's the next best thing.
View attachment 629361
.925!!! Congrats on a great ring StormSurge!!! Looking forward to getting back out there with you!

Take care everyone and Happy Hunting!

-Nate

Nate, First Thanks for starting this thread, all of the questions and answers within are making learning a whole lot easier. I hope it's also helping you get closer to your decision on your next unit.

Also, Thanks for all your tips. It's great to be able to bounce things off someone else when your not quite sure about some things.

Your Excal was great. It was at the top of my list when I started looking for a MD'er for the water and I'm glad that we could give each other the opportunity to test drive them. For me, I just couldn't pass up the Sand Shark. After my research, past discussions I have read including knowledge from SandMan, Terry Soloman, DewGuru and others not to mention Tesoro's reputation for a quality product and a seemingly open door of communication with Robert and everyone else at Tesoro, well sold me on it. Oh, and the price. Also the PI was a big consideration with the mineralization that we have in this area. I'm liking what I bought!

The Excal's variation in tones and interference is something I'd have to get use to but I'm sure that wouldn't take long. That's a nice setup you have and I especially liked the physical balance. If my Sand Shark grabs me a few chunks that I can cash in I'll certainly be looking at an Excal for my arsenal.

Lastly, it was my pleasure to meet up with you yesterday and hit the beach. I read all the time about how others meet good people MDing . I hope we have the chance to regain what gravity has taken from loose fingers and holey pockets many times in the future.

See Ya Soon.

 

[Terry Soloman]

Congrats on the great ring Storm!

 

[StormSurge]

Thanks Terry and thank You for all of the Great input you've contributed on the threads I've been reading for the past year 1/2. Learned alot from you and you didn't even know it!

I love saving the old stuff. Can't get enough of it! But, pulling that little trinket out of the sand was great and hanging' at the Beach with Nate would of been a good day without the Ring find.

 

[U.K. Brian]

Interesting that Eric Foster who is called "the most knowledgable PI designer on the planet" by "Hobbit" and the "King of Pulse" by most others in the detector design business is being called in effect a fraud by Terry Soloman who consistantly shows his lack of knowledge of detecting by his posts and lack of finds. The insistance in more than one post that the Sand Shark is the deepest P.I. can be disproved in minutes on any beach in the country....thats is if you have any friends or can afford one of the better detectors on the market.

Question is why those who feel they are doing so well can't seem to afford a range of detectors, to be able to travel to foreign sites and most still are welded firmly to their nine to five jobs ? The answer is its fantasy time. They can't cover day to day expences !

 

[Terry Soloman]

I never called anyone a "fraud," and certainly have never claimed the Tesoro Sand Shark was the "deepest" pulse induction machine. This is just one more example of typing fantasy when the facts don't suit you. Pulse delay is NOT the -only- factor in finding small or deep targets. THAT is what I have said consistanly. If you want to blindly follow a bunch of hype dreamed up by a marketing team - you go right on down that road.

Now let's talk about your need to personally attack me, and my reputation.. What I post or don't post, has absolutely no bearing on my knowledge base or experience. If I posted all of my gold finds, I wager you would be one of the very first to question them. I have been finding gold with metal detectors since 1977 - were you even on the Earth then? You can disagree with me all you want, but why attack me personally? You don't know me - you just disagree with me.

What do you KNOW about pulse delay, other than what you have been told? How LONG have you been using Pulse Induction detectors, and how many have you used for more than 50-hours? I can honestly respond over a dozen. Do you think Eric Foster is more celebrated than Stanley Werkhiemer, Vincent Gifford, or Dan Demarksky? Do you even know who these other engineers are?

C'mon Brian, let's be civil and have the debate. You don't have to call me names to disagree with me. I pay my ex-wives plenty to do that already!

Interesting that Eric Foster who is called "the most knowledgable PI designer on the planet" by "Hobbit" and the "King of Pulse" by most others in the detector design business is being called in effect a fraud by Terry Soloman who consistantly shows his lack of knowledge of detecting by his posts and lack of finds. The insistance in more than one post that the Sand Shark is the deepest P.I. can be disproved in minutes on any beach in the country....thats is if you have any friends or can afford one of the better detectors on the market.

Question is why those who feel they are doing so well can't seem to afford a range of detectors, to be able to travel to foreign sites and most still are welded firmly to their nine to five jobs ? The answer is its fantasy time. They can't cover day to day expences !

 

[herb n surf]

I have two PI machines , both are from Whites ,the PI pro and the DF. They are both deep but I have had the Pi Pro keep going down with leakage , even with the orange gasket .The way Whites designs the detectors the electronics are in the same compartment as the batteries and you risk a leak to your electronics when changing batteries . (For example Fisher has different compartments in its CZ 21) Repairs get expensive after a while. Thought you would like to know.