Excal - Depth VS I.D.
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Thread: Excal - Depth VS I.D.

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  1. #1
    us
    manaloneblog.wordpress.com

    Jun 2010
    Wherever there be treasure!
    An older blue Excal with connector, remote, Skullie headphones, and various coils. Got rid of the rest of my machines.
    14,015
    8782 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Excal - Depth VS I.D.

    Excal - Depth VS I.D.

    Recently Iíve had the opportunity to play with the Excal, the Skullies headphones, and various coil sizes, and the results have been pretty enlightening in regards to depth VS discrimination. Basically hereís what Iím discovering in the saltwater environment:

    As the coil size and depth increases - the gold targets must also increase in size and density or the ability for accurate I.D. becomes unreliable. Add to this that as the size of the coil increases it becomes much harder for the processor to isolate smaller gold objects from the increased amount of mineralization introduced by the larger search field of the larger coil, hence it becomes easier to miss small gold targets starting at about the mid-depth range and beyond. So in mineralized conditions there is clearly a tradeoff when seeking the greater depth that these larger coils provide.

    Target signature seems to be the only reliable reference when analyzing these deeper responses. If the response is faint but rather larger then you be fairly certain the target isnít a coin or piece of jewelry. But if that signature is small then what? One of the things I am discovering is that deep/faint nulls and/or threshold breaks need to be investigated further. One of the tactics Iíve started using is in disc mode, by which Iíll swing the coil over the target area at different angles and speeds to see if I can raise any manner of a tone, a burp, a momentary tic, a chirp, whatever. If I get any type of a response while doing this Iím digging that target! Just in this past week Iíve yanked some nice deeper finds from the deep wet soup that I would have passed up only weeks prior, and surprisingly, most of these deeper good targets have been silver. Sure, the greatest portion of these deep tics are iron junk, or zinc pennies, or tiny pieces of foil or junk pieces of eaten away costume jewelry, etc., but letís not forget that these targets started out as nulls, a sure sign that our I.D. capability is failing at these greater depths.

    I donít like having to dig these deeper mystery targets but as DewGuru says, ďHe who digs the most junk gets the most goldÖ.Ē, and in recent weeks I have come to realize that there is accuracy in this statement, especially when this philosophy is applied to these deeper targets. The big coil can get you deeper and it can allow you to access some of these deeper targets but donít trust the accuracy of those small and faint nulls, especially the deeper ones. So how do you know if itís just a small target or a deep target? Take at least one full scoop out of the target area and see if the item is still in the target area and if it is see if you can get it to take to you. If it so much as squeaks, go after it!
    "Treasure is wherever it can be found."

  2. #2
    us
    Jul 2010
    Gulf Coast Florida
    Tesoro Sand Shark
    1,264
    708 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Honorable Mentions (2)
    While running an excal with the 10" last year for a couple of months ... there was 1 week where I pulled 3 solitaire engagement rings. Every single one of them failed to ring up in discrim ... Yet, all 3 beeped in all metal. Quite faintly even then. Depth on them was 4-6 inches at best.

    The wife always asked me what my secret was .... My reply was, and still is, machine go beep, make hole.

    Happy Hunting!
    Buzzlitebeer likes this.
    He who digs the most trash finds the most treasure! | Tesoro Sand Shark Fan Page

  3. #3
    us
    manaloneblog.wordpress.com

    Jun 2010
    Wherever there be treasure!
    An older blue Excal with connector, remote, Skullie headphones, and various coils. Got rid of the rest of my machines.
    14,015
    8782 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by DewGuru View Post
    While running an excal with the 10" last year for a couple of months ... there was 1 week where I pulled 3 solitaire engagement rings. Every single one of them failed to ring up in discrim ... Yet, all 3 beeped in all metal. Quite faintly even then. Depth on them was 4-6 inches at best.

    The wife always asked me what my secret was .... My reply was, and still is, machine go beep, make hole.

    Happy Hunting!
    I'm guessing they were light/thin rings, and probably white gold. Otherwise at only 4-6" that Excal & 10" should have no trouble sounding off on them in Disc. If so I'd suspect a machine issue. But if they were thin/light and/or white gold it's possible. Another thing, if I get any type of a threshold pitch change I go looking for the source. A lot of the smaller chains I find are the result of this.
    "Treasure is wherever it can be found."

  4. #4
    us
    Jul 2010
    Gulf Coast Florida
    Tesoro Sand Shark
    1,264
    708 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Honorable Mentions (2)
    Quote Originally Posted by bigscoop View Post
    I'm guessing they were light/thin rings, and probably white gold. Otherwise at only 4-6" that Excal & 10" should have no trouble sounding off on them in Disc. If so I'd suspect a machine issue. But if they were thin/light and/or white gold it's possible. Another thing, if I get any type of a threshold pitch change I go looking for the source. A lot of the smaller chains I find are the result of this.
    Yep. They were all 1 to 2 grammers. Lil 'n ... Point being that discrim, on any machine, not all it's cracked up to be.
    Sure, save digging on some trash. But at the expense of what was missed. With all machines.
    He who digs the most trash finds the most treasure! | Tesoro Sand Shark Fan Page

  5. #5
    us
    chuck

    Feb 2007
    spacecoast florida
    fisher cz6a--teknetics g2 --cz20--minelab excal 800--discovery3300--original whites tdi--tesoro sandshark--whites dual field
    1,706
    369 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by DewGuru View Post
    Yep. They were all 1 to 2 grammers. Lil 'n ... Point being that discrim, on any machine, not all it's cracked up to be.
    Sure, save digging on some trash. But at the expense of what was missed. With all machines.
    I agree with both of you! your descriptions are spot on!!!! anything left In the sand or ground and passed over/left for someone else to dig could have been something good. there are flat out hard nulls, bottlecap nulls, whisper nulls, and little threshold variations that could be good targets. now, time for straight up honesty........ when I start getting tired I don't dig everything !!!! it always bothers me and that's usually when I know its time to go home!

    how often do you get a null, remove a scoop of sand, check the target again and if still nulling fill the hole back in?
    how often do you dig that "obvious bottlecap signal"?
    how often do start passing up the "obvious zincoln"?
    have you ever dug only foil and tab signals?
    chuck.
    DewGuru and s1u2r3f4 like this.
    you dont know what you dont know, and you dont know what you dont dig!!!!!!!!

  6. #6
    us
    Nov 2010
    Florida
    Tesoro Bandido II uMax , Tesoro Silver uMax, Minelab Excalibur 1000
    149
    62 times
    Beach and Shallow Water Hunting
    Thank you for the post!!!! Helping me to learn my excal thanks to you both...

  7. #7
    us
    Aug 2011
    Southwest Florida
    Garrett & Fisher Minelab Excaliber II Garrett Pro Pointer
    1,117
    432 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    I learn something new every day that is why I read this forum every day . Back in the day we dug everything , and I still do.

  8. #8
    us
    manaloneblog.wordpress.com

    Jun 2010
    Wherever there be treasure!
    An older blue Excal with connector, remote, Skullie headphones, and various coils. Got rid of the rest of my machines.
    14,015
    8782 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by DewGuru View Post
    Yep. They were all 1 to 2 grammers. Lil 'n ... Point being that discrim, on any machine, not all it's cracked up to be.
    Sure, save digging on some trash. But at the expense of what was missed. With all machines.
    Well, and that's the issue/choice/option/complication of machine choice and then coil size. Seems everything has its tradeoff. I just got back from the beach, only dug 38 holes the entire hunt, was using the 12 x 15 in the wet sand and I gotta tell ya, "I'm whipped!" Seems I couldn't catch a break, everything was deep-deep, sand was hard until I got to the soup, mostly common coins, BUT!........I did hit a deep silver pendent that needs a really good cleaning, toned like a quarter or dime. So I agree that there comes a point with any machine and setup when disc can't be trusted. But, when everything is deep-deep, well, I feel like a I just dug 38 graves with a snow shovel! Not sure I want to challenge that all the time. Advil and gloves are suddenly on the top of my detecting needs list!
    "Treasure is wherever it can be found."

  9. #9

    May 2013
    115
    193 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    I have a whites beach hunter ID that I got about a month ago and enjoy. Everyone else I see on the beach has a Minelab Excalibur. They say it can identify bottle caps from rings and they pass up the bottle caps. Others say, dig everything. I know it goes a little deeper than the Beach hunter id, but if I am going to pick up everything anyway and that is the major difference is it worth the extra money? Does anyone have both or used both that and give me good feedback? And how well does it identify bottle caps from rings? The beach hunter shows rings and bottle caps the same. Any suggestions?

  10. #10
    us
    manaloneblog.wordpress.com

    Jun 2010
    Wherever there be treasure!
    An older blue Excal with connector, remote, Skullie headphones, and various coils. Got rid of the rest of my machines.
    14,015
    8782 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by Pauln View Post
    I have a whites beach hunter ID that I got about a month ago and enjoy. Everyone else I see on the beach has a Minelab Excalibur. They say it can identify bottle caps from rings and they pass up the bottle caps. Others say, dig everything. I know it goes a little deeper than the Beach hunter id, but if I am going to pick up everything anyway and that is the major difference is it worth the extra money? Does anyone have both or used both that and give me good feedback? And how well does it identify bottle caps from rings? The beach hunter shows rings and bottle caps the same. Any suggestions?
    Can't help you there. I have "0" knowledge/experience with the Beach Hunter I.D.
    "Treasure is wherever it can be found."

  11. #11
    us
    "Dew" Meeker

    Mar 2006
    Gulf Coast, Fl
    MDT, Nox, Blue Xcals and CTX
    2,082
    1148 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Honorable Mentions (4)
    Shallow bottle caps.... NP you get a really broken signal and a bong..... deep ones you have to check. Another reason for PP BS.... get that coil just a little bit closer to the target and the Xcal will tell you if its iron and you dont have to dig to china to find out. I dug a nice 9.2 gram yesterday that was a weak small signal..... in disc it gave a normal false beep that wasnt repeatable except every 3 or 4th swing. People had been walking over it of that i have no doubt because this beach is hit hard all the time. It makes a huge difference changing out the headphones you can really adjust the threshold lower and hear those weaker threshold breaks. Its common knowledge there is a trade off with coil size..... but even identical size coils react differently. Good example you cant say an SEF that works great on an Exp will also work great on a Sov.... you just have to test them. there is a variance even in machines now days more so IMO. Good info BS as usual a lot to think about when considering how to set up your machine for what you want to find with some consistency.

    Dew

  12. #12
    us
    manaloneblog.wordpress.com

    Jun 2010
    Wherever there be treasure!
    An older blue Excal with connector, remote, Skullie headphones, and various coils. Got rid of the rest of my machines.
    14,015
    8782 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by dewcon4414 View Post
    Shallow bottle caps.... NP you get a really broken signal and a bong..... deep ones you have to check. Another reason for PP BS.... get that coil just a little bit closer to the target and the Xcal will tell you if its iron and you dont have to dig to china to find out. I dug a nice 9.2 gram yesterday that was a weak small signal..... in disc it gave a normal false beep that wasnt repeatable except every 3 or 4th swing. People had been walking over it of that i have no doubt because this beach is hit hard all the time. It makes a huge difference changing out the headphones you can really adjust the threshold lower and hear those weaker threshold breaks. Its common knowledge there is a trade off with coil size..... but even identical size coils react differently. Good example you cant say an SEF that works great on an Exp will also work great on a Sov.... you just have to test them. there is a variance even in machines now days more so IMO. Good info BS as usual a lot to think about when considering how to set up your machine for what you want to find with some consistency.

    Dew
    You touched on a couple of good points there Dew. I especially like the comment in regards to setting up a machine for the items you want to find with consistency, a bit of tradeoff there as well sometimes. And I agree 100% about the individual machine differences, some just seem to be "more tunable" then others for some reason. Congrats on the honker! With all this sand they're getting harder and harder to come by with each passing day.
    "Treasure is wherever it can be found."

 

 

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