Excal - Depth VS I.D.

bigscoop

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Excal - Depth VS I.D.

Recently I’ve had the opportunity to play with the Excal, the Skullies headphones, and various coil sizes, and the results have been pretty enlightening in regards to depth VS discrimination. Basically here’s what I’m discovering in the saltwater environment:

As the coil size and depth increases - the gold targets must also increase in size and density or the ability for accurate I.D. becomes unreliable. Add to this that as the size of the coil increases it becomes much harder for the processor to isolate smaller gold objects from the increased amount of mineralization introduced by the larger search field of the larger coil, hence it becomes easier to miss small gold targets starting at about the mid-depth range and beyond. So in mineralized conditions there is clearly a tradeoff when seeking the greater depth that these larger coils provide.

Target signature seems to be the only reliable reference when analyzing these deeper responses. If the response is faint but rather larger then you be fairly certain the target isn’t a coin or piece of jewelry. But if that signature is small then what? One of the things I am discovering is that deep/faint nulls and/or threshold breaks need to be investigated further. One of the tactics I’ve started using is in disc mode, by which I’ll swing the coil over the target area at different angles and speeds to see if I can raise any manner of a tone, a burp, a momentary tic, a chirp, whatever. If I get any type of a response while doing this I’m digging that target! Just in this past week I’ve yanked some nice deeper finds from the deep wet soup that I would have passed up only weeks prior, and surprisingly, most of these deeper good targets have been silver. Sure, the greatest portion of these deep tics are iron junk, or zinc pennies, or tiny pieces of foil or junk pieces of eaten away costume jewelry, etc., but let’s not forget that these targets started out as nulls, a sure sign that our I.D. capability is failing at these greater depths.

I don’t like having to dig these deeper mystery targets but as DewGuru says, “He who digs the most junk gets the most gold….”, and in recent weeks I have come to realize that there is accuracy in this statement, especially when this philosophy is applied to these deeper targets. The big coil can get you deeper and it can allow you to access some of these deeper targets but don’t trust the accuracy of those small and faint nulls, especially the deeper ones. So how do you know if it’s just a small target or a deep target? Take at least one full scoop out of the target area and see if the item is still in the target area and if it is see if you can get it to take to you. If it so much as squeaks, go after it!
 

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DewGuru

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While running an excal with the 10" last year for a couple of months ... there was 1 week where I pulled 3 solitaire engagement rings. Every single one of them failed to ring up in discrim ... Yet, all 3 beeped in all metal. Quite faintly even then. Depth on them was 4-6 inches at best.

The wife always asked me what my secret was .... My reply was, and still is, machine go beep, make hole.

Happy Hunting!
 

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bigscoop

bigscoop

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Jun 4, 2010
13,373
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Wherever there be treasure!
Detector(s) used
Older blue Excal with full mods, Equinox 800.
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All Treasure Hunting
While running an excal with the 10" last year for a couple of months ... there was 1 week where I pulled 3 solitaire engagement rings. Every single one of them failed to ring up in discrim ... Yet, all 3 beeped in all metal. Quite faintly even then. Depth on them was 4-6 inches at best.

The wife always asked me what my secret was .... My reply was, and still is, machine go beep, make hole.

Happy Hunting!

I'm guessing they were light/thin rings, and probably white gold. Otherwise at only 4-6" that Excal & 10" should have no trouble sounding off on them in Disc. If so I'd suspect a machine issue. But if they were thin/light and/or white gold it's possible. Another thing, if I get any type of a threshold pitch change I go looking for the source. A lot of the smaller chains I find are the result of this.
 

DewGuru

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I'm guessing they were light/thin rings, and probably white gold. Otherwise at only 4-6" that Excal & 10" should have no trouble sounding off on them in Disc. If so I'd suspect a machine issue. But if they were thin/light and/or white gold it's possible. Another thing, if I get any type of a threshold pitch change I go looking for the source. A lot of the smaller chains I find are the result of this.

Yep. They were all 1 to 2 grammers. Lil 'n ... Point being that discrim, on any machine, not all it's cracked up to be.
Sure, save digging on some trash. But at the expense of what was missed. With all machines.
 

seeker41

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Yep. They were all 1 to 2 grammers. Lil 'n ... Point being that discrim, on any machine, not all it's cracked up to be.
Sure, save digging on some trash. But at the expense of what was missed. With all machines.

I agree with both of you! your descriptions are spot on!!!! anything left In the sand or ground and passed over/left for someone else to dig could have been something good. there are flat out hard nulls, bottlecap nulls, whisper nulls, and little threshold variations that could be good targets. now, time for straight up honesty........ when I start getting tired I don't dig everything !!!! it always bothers me and that's usually when I know its time to go home!

how often do you get a null, remove a scoop of sand, check the target again and if still nulling fill the hole back in?
how often do you dig that "obvious bottlecap signal"?
how often do start passing up the "obvious zincoln"?
have you ever dug only foil and tab signals?
chuck.
 

sandnut

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Thank you for the post!!!! Helping me to learn my excal thanks to you both...
 

baywalker

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Aug 24, 2011
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I learn something new every day that is why I read this forum every day . Back in the day we dug everything , and I still do.
 

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bigscoop

bigscoop

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Jun 4, 2010
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Older blue Excal with full mods, Equinox 800.
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Yep. They were all 1 to 2 grammers. Lil 'n ... Point being that discrim, on any machine, not all it's cracked up to be.
Sure, save digging on some trash. But at the expense of what was missed. With all machines.

Well, and that's the issue/choice/option/complication of machine choice and then coil size. Seems everything has its tradeoff. I just got back from the beach, only dug 38 holes the entire hunt, was using the 12 x 15 in the wet sand and I gotta tell ya, "I'm whipped!" Seems I couldn't catch a break, everything was deep-deep, sand was hard until I got to the soup, mostly common coins, BUT!........I did hit a deep silver pendent that needs a really good cleaning, toned like a quarter or dime. So I agree that there comes a point with any machine and setup when disc can't be trusted. But, when everything is deep-deep, well, I feel like a I just dug 38 graves with a snow shovel! :laughing7: Not sure I want to challenge that all the time. Advil and gloves are suddenly on the top of my detecting needs list! :laughing7:
 

Pauln

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I have a whites beach hunter ID that I got about a month ago and enjoy. Everyone else I see on the beach has a Minelab Excalibur. They say it can identify bottle caps from rings and they pass up the bottle caps. Others say, dig everything. I know it goes a little deeper than the Beach hunter id, but if I am going to pick up everything anyway and that is the major difference is it worth the extra money? Does anyone have both or used both that and give me good feedback? And how well does it identify bottle caps from rings? The beach hunter shows rings and bottle caps the same. Any suggestions?
 

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bigscoop

bigscoop

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Jun 4, 2010
13,373
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Wherever there be treasure!
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Older blue Excal with full mods, Equinox 800.
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
I have a whites beach hunter ID that I got about a month ago and enjoy. Everyone else I see on the beach has a Minelab Excalibur. They say it can identify bottle caps from rings and they pass up the bottle caps. Others say, dig everything. I know it goes a little deeper than the Beach hunter id, but if I am going to pick up everything anyway and that is the major difference is it worth the extra money? Does anyone have both or used both that and give me good feedback? And how well does it identify bottle caps from rings? The beach hunter shows rings and bottle caps the same. Any suggestions?

Can't help you there. I have "0" knowledge/experience with the Beach Hunter I.D.
 

dewcon4414

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Shallow bottle caps.... NP you get a really broken signal and a bong..... deep ones you have to check. Another reason for PP BS.... get that coil just a little bit closer to the target and the Xcal will tell you if its iron and you dont have to dig to china to find out. I dug a nice 9.2 gram yesterday that was a weak small signal..... in disc it gave a normal false beep that wasnt repeatable except every 3 or 4th swing. People had been walking over it of that i have no doubt because this beach is hit hard all the time. It makes a huge difference changing out the headphones you can really adjust the threshold lower and hear those weaker threshold breaks. Its common knowledge there is a trade off with coil size..... but even identical size coils react differently. Good example you cant say an SEF that works great on an Exp will also work great on a Sov.... you just have to test them. there is a variance even in machines now days more so IMO. Good info BS as usual a lot to think about when considering how to set up your machine for what you want to find with some consistency.

Dew
 

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bigscoop

bigscoop

Gold Member
Jun 4, 2010
13,373
8,689
Wherever there be treasure!
Detector(s) used
Older blue Excal with full mods, Equinox 800.
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Shallow bottle caps.... NP you get a really broken signal and a bong..... deep ones you have to check. Another reason for PP BS.... get that coil just a little bit closer to the target and the Xcal will tell you if its iron and you dont have to dig to china to find out. I dug a nice 9.2 gram yesterday that was a weak small signal..... in disc it gave a normal false beep that wasnt repeatable except every 3 or 4th swing. People had been walking over it of that i have no doubt because this beach is hit hard all the time. It makes a huge difference changing out the headphones you can really adjust the threshold lower and hear those weaker threshold breaks. Its common knowledge there is a trade off with coil size..... but even identical size coils react differently. Good example you cant say an SEF that works great on an Exp will also work great on a Sov.... you just have to test them. there is a variance even in machines now days more so IMO. Good info BS as usual a lot to think about when considering how to set up your machine for what you want to find with some consistency.

Dew

You touched on a couple of good points there Dew. I especially like the comment in regards to setting up a machine for the items you want to find with consistency, a bit of tradeoff there as well sometimes. And I agree 100% about the individual machine differences, some just seem to be "more tunable" then others for some reason. Congrats on the honker! With all this sand they're getting harder and harder to come by with each passing day. :thumbsup:
 

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