Assateague Island

[LifeNRA]

There are actually TWO parks here!

The Assateague Island NATIONAL PARK is TOTTALY OFF LIMITS!!! to any and ALL MDing! As usual because this is FEDERAL land. Also, your not even ALLOWED to have a MD in your vehicle! If caught you will get a stiff fine for just having it in your vehicle! The ranger told me its hundreds of dollars!

The Assateague Island STATE PARK only allows MDing from Labor Day to sometime before Memorial Day! So from Memorial Day to Labor Day leave your MD's at home. They told me this due to the volume of people on the beach. Also, your only allowed to MD on the beach, no where else!

I went to both Rangers stations to obtain this info.

 

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[StormSurge]

So did you find anything?

 

[LifeNRA]

No, the winds yesterday had the sand blasting you from head to toe! I certainly was not going out yesterday. Not sure if ill get back down, our pass is good till the 20th.

 

[claire]

I am going to asseteage this weekend camping at the state park. Bringing my MD for sure

 

[Doc Arey]

Burns me up that MD is not legal on Federal Lands. Who the Hell owns it? The Feds?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Re.: the supposed federal beach being a no-no for md'rs: There was a true story here in CA, where a newbie got a metal detector. He decided he'd try out his new found hobby at the beach (where else does one detect? Doh!). So he headed off to the nearest popular beach, nearest where he lives in our state. It happens to be a federal beach. He did decently enough on his first trip (copious amount of coins, albeit all clad, and some knicknacks). So he returned again the next time, and repeated the results. And so on this went over a few months, as he got better and better at his machine. His coin counts would total into the hundreds on some of the trips, and he began to accumulate some gold rings in his hunts! He was quite happy at his choice of hobby, needless to say

But the whole time he was making these repeated trips to the beach, he began to ask himself: "gee, I wonder why the local md'rs here aren't 'all over this' good spot?" He knew, by this time, that there were other hobbyists in the area. So he couldn't understand why they weren't harvesting this bonanza of easy pickens. But .... oh well ... he wasn't going to argue

A few months pass, and he began to become acquainted with other hobbyists in his area. He got on forums, joined a club there, etc... When he confided in a few of his new friends where all his goodies were coming from, someone tells him "I thought that beach was off-limits?". To which he assured them that they must be mistaken. Because, you see, he had gone there, in broad daylight, anytime he wished, and no one had ever said anything to him. So obviously, the person telling his this, must be mistaken, right? And I mean, afterall, why would any "beach" be off-limits? He had helped himself, right in front of anyone and everyone. Yup, waltzing right past manned life-gaurd towers, rangers pass him with nothing but a friendly wave, etc.... It was painfully clear that no one cared. Therefore, he assumed his new friends must be mistaken.

But over time, he began to look into what they were saying. He found that ... yes, if you looked long enough and hard enough, you *could* find things (cultural heritage, etc...) that might be morphed to say such a thing. So he became aware of why his beach had been so good: Because all the locals just assumed you couldn't do it, you'd be arrested, it was off-limits, blah blah blah.

So NOW he had a dilema: keep going? (as it was obvious no one cared), or stop? Now put yourself in his shoes: you could hardly blame him if he just kept on going, right?

 

[lookindown]

Re.: the supposed federal beach being a no-no for md'rs: There was a true story here in CA, where a newbie got a metal detector. He decided he'd try out his new found hobby at the beach (where else does one detect? Doh!). So he headed off to the nearest popular beach, nearest where he lives in our state. It happens to be a federal beach. He did decently enough on his first trip (copious amount of coins, albeit all clad, and some knicknacks). So he returned again the next time, and repeated the results. And so on this went over a few months, as he got better and better at his machine. His coin counts would total into the hundreds on some of the trips, and he began to accumulate some gold rings in his hunts! He was quite happy at his choice of hobby, needless to say

But the whole time he was making these repeated trips to the beach, he began to ask himself: "gee, I wonder why the local md'rs here aren't 'all over this' good spot?" He knew, by this time, that there were other hobbyists in the area. So he couldn't understand why they weren't harvesting this bonanza of easy pickens. But .... oh well ... he wasn't going to argue

A few months pass, and he began to become acquainted with other hobbyists in his area. He got on forums, joined a club there, etc... When he confided in a few of his new friends where all his goodies were coming from, someone tells him "I thought that beach was off-limits?". To which he assured them that they must be mistaken. Because, you see, he had gone there, in broad daylight, anytime he wished, and no one had ever said anything to him. So obviously, the person telling his this, must be mistaken, right? And I mean, afterall, why would any "beach" be off-limits? He had helped himself, right in front of anyone and everyone. Yup, waltzing right past manned life-gaurd towers, rangers pass him with nothing but a friendly wave, etc.... It was painfully clear that no one cared. Therefore, he assumed his new friends must be mistaken.

But over time, he began to look into what they were saying. He found that ... yes, if you looked long enough and hard enough, you *could* find things (cultural heritage, etc...) that might be morphed to say such a thing. So he became aware of why his beach had been so good: Because all the locals just assumed you couldn't do it, you'd be arrested, it was off-limits, blah blah blah.

So NOW he had a dilema: keep going? (as it was obvious no one cared), or stop? Now put yourself in his shoes: you could hardly blame him if he just kept on going, right?

It depends on what the rules of that beach say...if it doesnt say no metal detecting then he should keep going...if there is no detecting allowed on ANY federal land then that beach is a no go.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

reply

It depends on what the rules of that beach say...if it doesnt say no metal detecting then he should keep going...if there is no detecting allowed on ANY federal land then that beach is a no go.

lookin-down, I posted that story awhile back. And someone replied to this effect: "Well, he just got lucky so far ! If the right ranger in-the-know passes him, he can be arrested, fined, confiscated, blah blah blah"

And the more I thought about that answer, I wondered: At WHAT point does it start to be "norm", and not "luck" anymore? A week? A month? A year? 10 hunters over 10 yrs. routinely ignored? At SOME point a "reasonable" person could start to assume, that no one cares, eh?

I mean, think of it: have you ever noticed, that when someone posts an inquiry about travelling to some other place, they might float a thread asking if detecting is allowed at such & such beaches or parks or whatever. And often time, the answer they'll get from locals in that area, might be something to the effect of: Sure, no problems. We all detect here at those beaches or parks. Wide open. Come have a ball, etc.... So you see, they're not quoting any actuall ALLOWANCES (or telling you there's utterly no lack of verbage that *could* be applied), but rather, what they're telling you, is actual practice. Because you see, there's some places that detectors are simply a common site, as long as anyone remembers, and no one's ever had a problem. You might *THINK* that .... therefore .... means it's "allowed", right? But all that's doing, is basing it on practice and outcomes. Is that a bad thing? No. It's reality.

 

[lookindown]

lookin-down, I posted that story awhile back. And someone replied to this effect: "Well, he just got lucky so far ! If the right ranger in-the-know passes him, he can be arrested, fined, confiscated, blah blah blah"

And the more I thought about that answer, I wondered: At WHAT point does it start to be "norm", and not "luck" anymore? A week? A month? A year? 10 hunters over 10 yrs. routinely ignored? At SOME point a "reasonable" person could start to assume, that no one cares, eh?

I mean, think of it: have you ever noticed, that when someone posts an inquiry about travelling to some other place, they might float a thread asking if detecting is allowed at such & such beaches or parks or whatever. And often time, the answer they'll get from locals in that area, might be something to the effect of: Sure, no problems. We all detect here at those beaches or parks. Wide open. Come have a ball, etc.... So you see, they're not quoting any actuall ALLOWANCES (or telling you there's utterly no lack of verbage that *could* be applied), but rather, what they're telling you, is actual practice. Because you see, there's some places that detectors are simply a common site, as long as anyone remembers, and no one's ever had a problem. You might *THINK* that .... therefore .... means it's "allowed", right? But all that's doing, is basing it on practice and outcomes. Is that a bad thing? No. It's reality.

If your speeding and you go by a trooper sitting in the median and he doesn't pull you over, are you going to say "Oh, they don't care anymore"?...I hear what your saying but if its written that there is no detecting, it doesn't mean they might not care, it means there is no detecting.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

reply

If your speeding and you go by a trooper sitting in the median and he doesn't pull you over, are you going to say "Oh, they don't care anymore"?...I hear what your saying but if its written that there is no detecting, it doesn't mean they might not care, it means there is no detecting.

lookin-down, at the risk of getting "lost in your example" (because I know where you were going with that example), I'm going to do just that:

Ok, what's odd in your example, is there is no shortage of people (perhaps every single person on this forum) who will tell you that .... yes .... they've gotten a ticket for speeding. I have. Several in fact, during my 33-ish years of driving. And I suspect you have too. HOWEVER, if everyone on this forum could collectively say they've NEVER gotten a ticket for speeding, then ... what would that tell you?

Another weakness in your example, is "specific" vs "general". In the case of the speed limit, it's clear as day (posted, known, etc...). But in the case of some place that's relying on "cultural heritage" or "defacement/alteration" verbage, it truly is .... sometimes .... on a case-by-case basis depending on who "really cares", or how someone interprets minutia. Thus back to my point: If it becomes quite clear that NO ONE interprets the minutia as such, and NO ONE cares, then .... at some point, a reasonable person could see that.

 

[lookindown]

I was only talking about when the written word says no metal detecting...the OP was about federal land...we can talk about the grey area stuff till the end of time...when there is grey area I go detecting...Im on your side but I like sparring with you...your a worthy opponent.

 

[abeach01]

So I am guessing if I buy a gun and want to hunt at a zoo as long as no one catches me it would be ok? WHAT? That is just crazy, the ignorant should be punished just the same as the ones that know better. Ignorance is no way to justify illegal activity.
For instance: If you did a google search in your phone about legalities hunting a place, if you are arrested and they purge your phone (which is legal by the way if you are arrested) and they find out you knew it was off limits and you were hunting there then the penalty will be a stiff one I am sure.
I do hunt a lot of areas that are closed during the season but after the season when they open, I can be the first guy there the first day it is legal to hunt and it be clean. I have had rangers say (how could you not find things on a closed beach)? I explain and he lets me know that he HAS caught people hunting and most times if they act stupid they get away with it, but if they know what you are doing and your caught say at 4am hunting his off limit beach, he would arrest and let you answer to the judge. I personally feel if you know it's off limits then it is wrong to hunt and act stupid and you get what you deserve. It is stupid but laws are laws for a reason.
Why would we ever want to claim stupidity is OK in this or any hobby. Obviously if you are fishing for fish in a koi pond then it's probably not open to fishing. Pretty fish but not for the catching.
20 years ago I acted stupid and hunted a few off limit beaches to the amusement of the rangers but that day is over, now I think there is not a one of us that would admit they would want to try to fight to get back any relics, rings or artifacts back and to have you prove they were found illegally or legally would be a nightmare not to mention having to pay to repair every scoop hole you made. Not something you want to act stupid about.
We are seeing more and more that the feds can do what they want.
Another scenario: You are sneaking into a beach to hunt when someone sees a man in black suit, weird electronic equipment near a dam and thinks " oh no a terrorist may be plotting to blow up a dam. Better call the law.....
how would you ever answer that when you were shot for being a terrorist looking person on federal property in the middle of the night. Think about it?
Not my ideal situation or anyone else's?
I know grave robbing is wrong as does anyone else but who would ever do it right?
i guarantee that someone has done it and just as many have thought of it especially with the technology as it is. (With webcams on a cable and instruments to pluck rings from dead peoples hands without even opening graves, I am sure some out of work plumber is doing it somewhere because he may feel it is not wrong and he blames the US gov because of the economy. But it is still morally wrong. We all have to live with ourselves in the end and live by our decisions.
Are you good, bad or ignorant?

 

[lookindown]

So I am guessing if I buy a gun and want to hunt at a zoo as long as no one catches me it would be ok? WHAT? That is just crazy, the ignorant should be punished just the same as the ones that know better. Ignorance is no way to justify illegal activity.
For instance: If you did a google search in your phone about legalities hunting a place, if you are arrested and they purge your phone (which is legal by the way if you are arrested) and they find out you knew it was off limits and you were hunting there then the penalty will be a stiff one I am sure.
I do hunt a lot of areas that are closed during the season but after the season when they open, I can be the first guy there the first day it is legal to hunt and it be clean. I have had rangers say (how could you not find things on a closed beach)? I explain and he lets me know that he HAS caught people hunting and most times if they act stupid they get away with it, but if they know what you are doing and your caught say at 4am hunting his off limit beach, he would arrest and let you answer to the judge. I personally feel if you know it's off limits then it is wrong to hunt and act stupid and you get what you deserve. It is stupid but laws are laws for a reason.
Why would we ever want to claim stupidity is OK in this or any hobby. Obviously if you are fishing for fish in a koi pond then it's probably not open to fishing. Pretty fish but not for the catching.
20 years ago I acted stupid and hunted a few off limit beaches to the amusement of the rangers but that day is over, now I think there is not a one of us that would admit they would want to try to fight to get back any relics, rings or artifacts back and to have you prove they were found illegally or legally would be a nightmare not to mention having to pay to repair every scoop hole you made. Not something you want to act stupid about.
We are seeing more and more that the feds can do what they want.
Another scenario: You are sneaking into a beach to hunt when someone sees a man in black suit, weird electronic equipment near a dam and thinks " oh no a terrorist may be plotting to blow up a dam. Better call the law.....
how would you ever answer that when you were shot for being a terrorist looking person on federal property in the middle of the night. Think about it?
Not my ideal situation or anyone else's?
I know grave robbing is wrong as does anyone else but who would ever do it right?
i guarantee that someone has done it and just as many have thought of it especially with the technology as it is. (With webcams on a cable and instruments to pluck rings from dead peoples hands without even opening graves, I am sure some out of work plumber is doing it somewhere because he may feel it is not wrong and he blames the US gov because of the economy. But it is still morally wrong. We all have to live with ourselves in the end and live by our decisions.
Are you good, bad or ignorant?

Don't you judge me!!

 

[Jason in Enid]

So I am guessing if I buy a gun and want to hunt at a zoo as long as no one catches me it would be ok?

No, because shooting a caged animal is not in any definition of hunting.

 

[lookindown]

If you don't get caught...it never happened.

 

[Jason in Enid]

What happens in Vegas stay in Vegas!

 

[Rogerv]

I Received this from NPS
Thank you for your e-mail. 36 CFR 2.1(a)(7) prohibits use of metal detectors in all national parks. It also prohibits the possession of the device on national park lands. Metal detecting is, however, permitted in the STATE park during certain times of the year. For information about this, scroll all the way to the bottom of this webpage:

Camping at Assateague State Park



Thank you for taking the time to inquire about this policy before arriving on the beach with your metal detector. Your foresightedness is appreciated. Please no not hesitate to contact us if you have additional questions.


Cheers,

Kelly Taylor