true UGLY treasure tale - pass the bottle-UPDATE

[ivan salis]

once upon a time there was this fellow (ME) who because he had both as a kid with his dad metal detecting found old spanish coins while detecting at the local beach and also heard of several other folks finding 1715 era type spanish coins long ago on the local beach (there are 2 missing ships from the 1715 fleet unaccounted for) the french prize "el ciervo" and the nao "san miguel" of echeverz's fleet (as well as a salvage barcalonga* sent from to the 1715 fleet wrecksites from havana which I later on discovered from my research)--so I later on as a adult -- I was doing some research on the area, looking for whatever shipwreak sites that might be in the area so I could go beach hunting at them for more coins and such --well low and behold if I didn't run across not 1 but 2 old maps that had a old wreak sites ** they were the W. Fuller map of 1769 made for british lord egmont and a 1778 french version of the same map of the amelia island area** it showed the wreaksite as being off what was then called on the maps "sandy isle"---between amilia island and little/ big talbot islands the wreak is clearly marked on both maps --the maps are basically the same map --- they are for captains to use to enter the harbor (the anchorage area is marked on the maps --please note that on the 1769 map the words "small spring" on talbot island most likely the reason they stopped to repair or take water or both (vital needs) the wreak is close to the anchorage, most likely a storm caused them to drag anchor and then it was too late--one of the maps is in french (1778) the other english(1769) -- however the french map notes the word "neufrage" at the wreaksite it means "swallowed up or shattered to bits" as in a total wreak no recovery--as the local indains hated the spanish (they had sided with the french who lived here in 1565 against the spanish - so the spanish were hard on them) they would have likely killed any survivors if any did live.--the maps when linked up with a PS statement on the bottom of a letter written on Oct. 24th , 1715 from the english govenor of virginia (alexander spotswood) to the english home sec. (lord stanhope) discussing the "barcolonga" sent from havana to the 1715 wrecksites to pick up VIP'S and treasure that wrecked "about 40 miles northward of st augustine" told me what vessel was down in the sound --IT WAS THE RESCUE BARCOLONGA SENT FROM HAVANA TO THE 1715 FLEET WRECKSITES !!! -- thus the 1715 fleet type items found there.

great story so far and every bit true look for yourself --check my facts for yourself!!! so now why is it that I'm so willing to share this valuible information with you? --- WELL---when I went to "claim it"

I was told by the state IT AND THE BEACHES AROUND IT are in a state of florida "protected zone" so you cannot legally get at the wreak in anyway and by law are not even allowed to metal detect the beach areas surrounding the wrecksite now days .--- try it and off to jail you can go!!! so if you ever meet me buy me a drink cuz I sure can use one , knowing the treasures is just sitting there and not being able to get it ---is like sitting in hell , having a cool glass of ice water in hand that ya can't drink-- Ivan

 

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[ivan salis]

SWR please look at the spring 2011 GARRETT news letter * BOB -- a good freind of mine --is in it * --on page 6 --there is a photograph of the 1550's era french gold coin he found from the huguenot fleet wreck site -- we are good freinds -- oh by the way --bob is a DOWSER .-- AND WHILE I AM A RESEARCHER (TO FIND THE ROUGH STARTER AREA ) -- I DO BELIEVE IN DOWSING A AREA ONCE YOUR IN THE ROUGH ZONE TO FIND A "SWEET SPOT" TO DETECT AT.

ALL ARE ENTITLED TO FEEL AS THEY WISH ABOUT "DOWSING" -- WE CAN AGREE TO "DISAGREE" ON THE SUBJECT --CASE CLOSED

LIKE YOU SAID IN POST #5 --WHAT HAPPENED TO FREEDOM?

 

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[pat-tekker-cat]

Ever know anyone to get charged with felony vehicular assault, ON AN ORANGE ROAD CONE?
That costs us a lot, but, we, the attorney, and D.A., had the funniest $1000.00 lunch, any of us, ever attended! LOL!

Yes. Over half of the deaths associated with road work/construction are due to speeding motorist not obeying the rules while in the work zone.
Slow down, obey all of the regulatory signs. Let those building and repairing your roads return home to their families at the end of the day.

Honey, My husband is the road builder, too! He built more roads in Fl, than most ppl have ridden on!
We are NO strangers to road hazards!
As we watched a semi-trailer tire, roll right over Snow Whites' pik-up bed and cab, crushing her truck.
Everyone was just glad, we had moved, like, seconds earlier. But, Ivan will never get that lost leg back.
I guess I should say White's Construction, Chiefland Fl, yeah, he did name his daughter Snow!
(I keep saying the cats' gonna shut-up, I'm looking for her muzzle now)





Don't worry down there swr, not eveyone speaks "cat"

 

[ivan salis]

my legs are still here (thank god --had to look to check to be sure) =--it's only my treasure thats I'm being screwed out of .--the taxes the govt charges us poor folks however are a "arm and a leg"

 

[ivan salis]

humm post 5 not yours --funny cuz it shows up as "ignored" and your the only person I got that set on .===going to have to see who it is --hummm odd

oh well sorry you can not see the "proof" you ask for all the time -- if you do somehow run across a spring of 2011 GARRETT NEWS LETTER -- please look at page 6 --and see the photograph of the lovely french huguenot fleet shipwreck gold coin from the 1550's . that my good freind BOB found -- Ivan

this just a "update" on whats NOT happening and what is happening --and what the states missing out on .

the "case closed" comment by me --was meant "solely" on the topic of dowsing * --believe or not as one chooses --case closed -- I do -you do not --simple as that.

 

[ivan salis]

bob dowses to get a rough area then "closes in with detectors" -- bob does use a GARRETT METAL DETECTOR --

I KNOW BOB PERSONALLY --HE IS A FREIND OF MINE , AS WELL AS A MEMBER OF MY METAL DETECTING CLUB -- at this month club meeting the coin was shown "in person" -- I've seen it myself , with my own two eyes.

I do research to find a rough "likely area" , then I "semi dowse" -- meaning I explore the rough area to get a "feel" / read of the land for what I feel is a "sweet spot" then I close in with a detector .

its "my way that works for me" -- you do not have to believe in it nor do I ask that you do -- as I say it "works" for me -thus its MY cup of tea.

whatever "system" works for you is fine by me -- enjoy , happy hunting & good luck

 

[ivan salis]

well if you ever find any treasure and the state screws up your being able to recover it --due to a bunch of silly "off limits" area rules put in place by the state of florida to cut off access to likely treasure rich areas to punish / block salvors AFTER mel fisher beat them in court ( historical preserve / aquatic preserve areas --were excepted by the courts as per state request from being allowible "permitted" areas for salvage operation permits * --- so after the court case was settled in mel fishers favor ---the state of florida went out and made lots and lots of spots that were highly probile treasure wreck sites into these types of zones --as a form of "payback" to block both mel fisher and any other salvors from them)

let you find a huge possible treasure and due to "stupid bogus rules" be blocked from trying to get to it (unless you try a illegal recovery that can put you in jail)--and lets see the "tune" you sing.

state "public" beaches are "normally open" to metal detecting waterline to dunes foot (even at the 1715 fleet sites beaches its allowed)-- however at the wrecksite area by where my wreck is at --even that has been "blocked off" --no metal detecting allowed * on the beaches near nassau sound (southern tip of amelia island / northern part of talbot island) if thats not being "targeted" what is?

 

[TheRandyMan]

Unless I am greatly mistaken...I do not believe SWR will be doing any singing...

 

[pat-tekker-cat]

I just cut&paste this from another posts of mine.
I swear, the gun is cocked and the cat is getting ready to take one!

I guess it's alright to rape, rob, and pillage the earth, as long as your named Haliburton,
BP, Shell, Dow, or Monsanto. And of course can make billions in profit on it, nothing wrong with that!

But squash that little man, cause he picked a blackberry off a wild bush!

 

[ivan salis]

SWR --what you call "intuition" ---- organized logical thinking---leading you to--a hunch or similar "feeling" that this is a "good spot" to check out ---is what some folks refer to as a form of "mental dowsing"

 

[ivan salis]

oh I got proof from long ago --before the area was put "off limits" -- many years ago my dad and I as a child used to detect those very "no metal detecting allowed today " beaches * the coins pop found were the same type as the 1715 fleet was carrying * --the spotswood letter of Oct 24th,1715 clearly explains what the vessel was and why it would have 1715 fleet type items on her ( it was a "barcolonga" a rescue and recovery vessel sent from havana to recover people and goods from the 1715 fleet wrecksites) and that she wrecked "about 40 miles northward of st augustine" --if one takes a set of dividers and marks a 40 mile arc from st augustine on a sea chart --its exactly where the nassau sound area is at. --plus the 1769 "fuller" map of amelia island map shows a wrecksite in the sound

heck the state archies even "agree" with me that my theory / research is solid about the wrecksite --but still no permit is allowed.

it has been "suggested" by certain parties that IF I were to get together with a "non profiet" group --ie college that has "underwater archie" program --that permits could become "avialible" to do it and even funding found via certain "grants" -- but only if its done in such a way that the college and state gets ALL the recovered items from the wreck -- I will get ZIPPO from the wreck but the "right" to claim discovery of it and write a book / sell "recovery" movie making "rights"-- and baby I'm not going for that.

 

[birdman]

Awesome research Ivan , I am sure the frustration is enough to drive a person mad. When I was 19 I saved up for a waterproof detector and went to a spot that used to have an old store on it that had been blown into the water in 1979 during hurricane Fredric. I parked my car got out started in the water and some guy came out telling me to get off his property .He said there is a lot of stuff in that water and I am going to get it. He did not own the water which was a slew leading into the bay but said he owned the property around it.
I remember going into the store as a small child and it was full of CW stuff,old bottles coins and I remember a big ships bell. Knowing what I know now ,I would of challenged the guy to show me proof that he owned all the land. He had a trailer moved about 150 feet from one side of the area but he may have not owned the other side. That was 20 years ago and I am sure the stuff has been pulled out of the water by now..

 

[ivan salis]

a lot of work and effort went into uncovering the facts and history of the nassau sound / amelia island wrecksite --only to be "blocked" out of it -- because the state long ago got POed about losing a court case to Mel Fisher and thus made a bunch of areas "aquatic preserve zones & historical preserve zones"-- thus "off limits" to applying for permits ( often the areas were ocean areas that were heavily used in the past * thus highly likely to be good treasure wreck areas to look at )--- the state did this in a classical sour grapes "revenge" action for losing the court case brought by fisher against the state and the federal govt **** to block access to Mel Fisher and other salvors to these highly used old waterway travel areas --ie -- spots likely to be good treasure hunting areas

its so bad --you can not even metal detect the local "state park" beaches near nassau sound !! ---(lower tip of amelia island / upper part of talbot island )-- like you can elsewhere in the state. (waterline to dunes foot)

 

[Silver Surfer]

There is a lot I love about Florida, it's laws, for the most part, I dont....
Coming from the Pacific NW, I know the ocean very well. Used to be a Captain (USCG license) and also spent every spare hour I had in my youth prowling water...
I was, and am still, amazed at how poorly this state cares for it's waterways. From the absolutely crazy antics of the water districts (can you believe they actually pump polluted farm water BACK into Okeechobee?), to the "re-nourishment" projects that have done nothing but cover up acres and acres of "precious" coral reefs...
Yet, they will ban people like us from doing what we do "in sensitive areas"... Amazing, really...

I think it simply comes down to many who think of us as "second hand thieves", and those with good intentions (saving reefs) but very poor common sense skills...

The treasure does absolutely no good to anyone, even the state, when it simply sits unseen under the water..

 

[jyt2017]

I only suggested a night hunt. And in my case, the national seashore is a public land. I have every right to be on it if I want too.

Just so you know. I never trespass or detect without proper permission.

I do write letters to local politicians. Anyway, sorry for the confusion and HH -Joe

Just do night hunting without any flashlights. I go through same thing here in mass with cap cod nat seashore. Written dozens of letters to politicians asking them to ban any arrest for detecting to no avail. You can do drugs walking down the street in this state with impunity but mind your own business with a detector an you will get clubbed like a dodo bird. Its disgusting. HH -Joe

In your opinion...trespassing and breaking the law is minding your own business?

Good grief. It is chest pounding like this that gives cannon fodder to the anti-detectorist.

Admitting illegal activities on a message board is so overrated

 

[ivan salis]

lets see

#1 fact -- spanish 1715 era spanish treasure fleet gold and silver coins HAVE been found in the nassau sound area (heck my dad and I as a child found some of them --as well as other folks in the area as well )--sadly when times got fiscally tough after my dad got his back broke during a accident while working in the shipyard --the coins got sold to support the family .--as the lawsuit drug on and on , taking years to final settle it.

#2 fact-- THERE IS a "offical" document written on Oct 24th, 1715 by the govenor of virginia (alexander spotswood) to the british home sec stanhope * in which he discribes in a PS at the letters end.

a spanish "barcolonga" type salvage / vip rescue vessel was sent from havana to the 1715 sites to recover goods and vips and that it that sank about 40 miles northward of st augustine ( which just happens to be were nassau sound is located - 40 miles northward of st augustine * )

#3 fact --there is a november of 1769 english map /sea chart of amelia island made by capt fuller for lord egmont --that clearly shows a wreck site in the sound. (note the wreck MUST BE pre november 1769 to be on the map.)

what parts of 1, 2, and 3 are you having problems understanding?

oh the state archie dept by the way --agrees that most likely my "research" is correct as far as to what the "wreck site" is * but because of the "aquatic preserve zone " issue will not issue permits for it --it is not that my research wasn't "valid" --its that the old zones set up long ago are "blocking it"--from getting permits to do salvage /recovery * --oh you can get permits "look at it' --- however you just can't recover anything ( thus you can not make any money off it-- in a "for profiet" basis salvage wize )

do you not find it odd how the state loses it case with mel fisher ( in which the judge orders the state to set up a process to issue "permits" for future salvage work ) , and by court order the only places that are to be "unavailible" for permits are places where salvage work might hurt "endangered sea life" (aquatiic preserve zones) and known areas where known "historical wrecks of arch interest may lie" (historical preserve zones) and then after the case is closed --- the state of florida suddenly pops up with lots and lots of "new " no permit allowed zones ---"-aquatic preserve zones" and "historic preserve zones" where none ever existed before ? all in high treasure rich heavy traffic old shipping areas. (surprize)

I know what I know --you think what you think.

 

[ivan salis]

I found it , but for now I'm not not able to cash in on it --due to the state's nonsense "rules" for the area --which allow for he corp of enginneers to do "beach renourishment" in the area but stop salvage work in the same exact waters , "for fear they might "disturb" the area * ---get a clue folks , what do you think "beach renourishment " is ?---it's removing sand off the ocean bottom "off shore" and "pumping" it onshore --if thats not "disturbing" the bottom enviroment -then what is?

folks when I am faced with such utter "nonsence" rules that clearly are "played" 2 ways depending upon who''s asking for permission to do what --- that blocks off what should be a "valid" resquest for treasure ship permits -- i a honor bound top expose it.

 

[Silver Surfer]

But sadly Ivan, that is our entire political landscape now... Not just with treasure hunting.. Try to do anything that politicians or corporate croney's are allowed to do and see how far you get...
Hell, our Treasury Secretary didnt pay his taxes, and blamed it on Turbo-tax... I use Turbo Tax, you think they would let me use that excuse
We can only hope that one day (in our lifetime, maybe our kids) this country will turn back (the better parts) to a time when the Govt wasnt in every aspect of our lives... But I sure as hell aint gonna hold my breath...

 

[tarpon192]

IF IT WAS O.K. TO SALVAGE 1715 FLEET TREASURE DURING KIP AND MEL'S TIMES, WHAT IS WRONG KNOW? THE IDIOTS ALL AMERICANS VOTED FOR - I AM NOT CALLING AMERICANS IDIOTS - BUT OUR ELECTED PUBLIC OFFICIALS. THEY ARE IDIOTS(FREEDOM OF SPEECH). OH - THAT RIGHT MAY BE GONE SOON ALSO. ELECTED PUBLIC OFFICIAL'S TAKE HOME A HUGE PAYCHECK, AND DON'T DO A DAMN THING. THEY ALL TALK ABOUT THE FUTURE GENERATION - WELL LET ME TELL YOU ALL SOMETHING. THE FUTURE GENERATION IS MY GRAND KIDS, OR YOUR KIDS - WHO WILL NEVER KNOW THIS COUNTRY LIKE THE REST OF US HAVE.

IT IS A TOTAL SHAME WHAT HAPPENED TO FREEDOM, SELF ENTERPRISE, AND JOBS THAT MADE THIS COUNTRY GREAT.
MAYBE CHINA WILL BE ALLOWED TO SEARCH FOR SHIPWRECKS, AND DRILL FOR OIL OFF FLORIDA'S EAST COAST! HOW WOULD THAT MAKE YOU FEEL? I WOULD FEEL LIKE THEIR IS NO HOPE FOR MY GRAND KIDS, AND MY SON.

VOTE ALL THESE A**H%&@S OUT, AND DON'T TRUST OR BELIEVE A WORD OF FUTURE POLITICIANS UNTIL ALL QUESTIONS ARE ANSWERED - AND HOLD THEM TO IT. IF PEOPLE UNITE - ACTION WILL BE TAKEN.

IF THE MODERATORS REMOVE MY POST -------------OH WELL!!!!!!

IF YOU ARE DIVING OFF THE COAST OF FLORIDA, AND DO FIND SOMETHING - LIKE A CANNON, OR ANCHOR, OR BETTER YET A BALLAST PILE - DON'T TELL ANYONE. BE A PIRATE. THAT IS WHAT THE STATE OF FLORIDA IS..

GOOD LUCK EVERYBODY.

 

[ivan salis]

poly --greek word meaning "many" *

tick -- blood sucking pest *

polyticks -- self explaining ( many blood sucking pest) --see above.