PI vs CTX3030 -- amazing test results

DnD

Full Member
Aug 24, 2012
128
70
First Coast, FL
🏆 Honorable Mentions:
1
Detector(s) used
CTX, Nox800, Excal, Explorer, CZ, AT, Sea Hunter, DP Pulse & Diver, Surf PI, BHID, and BH
Primary Interest:
Beach & Shallow Water Hunting
Having a PI machine has often left me feeling like there is no object that I can't find. After all, there is no tuning, ground balancing, adjusting for mineralization, or salt...just the raw metal detecting power of something similar to the car world's late 60's big block V8. Once you mount the control box on your waist, you can even swing the coil fast and often the perceived extra power compensates for poor swing technique or even just being able to have the coil near (not over) a target. Perhaps the only downfall of this big-block PI is the lack of discrimination for the nearby, trashy beaches.

So yesterday, I had an amazing experience on a nearby Florida beach when I joined Joe, a fellow MD'r, to hunt and compare my PI (Sea Hunter II with 10x14 coil) to his new CTX3030. Joe was still learning the machine so in an effort to just "get-on-with-hunting" he discriminated out iron and set the unit to the factory beach mode setting. At the edge of the surf, we began hunting.

I was impressed how close we could hunt without having interference with each others machines. Even more impressive was how fast we could swing and pace along. But this was only the beginning of the show the CTX was about to put on. As I stopped over-and-over to dig the remains of sparklers (fireworks) and iron debris, the CTX kept on trucking. Several times we took turns following the same path and learned there wasn't a DEEP target found by the PI that the CTX couldn't find. I thought there would have to be some hang-up and sure enough, Joe stopped and dug a big chuck of iron. Skeptically I thought Ah-ha!!! But before I could make a cheap jab at the CTX's disc ability, he broke off a small dime from underneath the aged mass of rusty sand and iron. Unbelievable!

We had walked about a half mile and decided it was time to head back. We were debating about some of the areas we had or hadn't covered, but once again, the CTX was ready to show off with its little GPS feature that had tracked the path we traveled. Now in all fairness, we couldn't figure out how to orient the screen, e.g., north, south, east, west. But, we made it work enough to figure which areas we missed.

On the route back to our cars, I got caught in an area riddled with pull tabs and big fishing hooks, the ones that wouldn't make a double-beep like bobby pins. I was about to dig my twenty-something piece of trash and I looked over and saw Joe about 25 yards ahead of me on his hands and knees really scavenging through a spoils pile. I was ready for a break, so I walked over to see what was going on. A few seconds later, Joe's hand brushed the sand away from a marble size golden charm. Bam!

At the end of the hunt, my arm was fatigued from digging so many holes and the rest of my body was "feeling it" from trying to keep pace with the CTX. Right then and there I felt there was no debate strong enough to disprove the amazing performance of the CTX. Now, my only thought is how do I work a deal to trade all my machines for just (1) CTX? :laughing7:

-David
 

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OBN

Gold Member
Dec 30, 2008
6,527
7,004
Maryland Waters
🏆 Honorable Mentions:
1
Detector(s) used
"Excalibur"..
"AQ" Impulse
Primary Interest:
Other
Joe/All: At what depth do multi freq VLFs lose their advantage by loosing depth and the PIs rule?
Are we talking ankle deep, knee deep, waist deep, chin deep, submerged?
Except for changes in Salinity, which varies within the day, I would not expect this to be site specific, as the loss in depth
is caused by the return from water above the coil which the detector sees as noise. That is if I am correct about the above assumption. If not what other factors are responsible for this relative loss in depth.

Come to think of it, do VLF detectors loose depth in fresh water? They shine in fresh water because there is no salt
If so is the loss less than in salt water?

Excalibur, CZ20/21 CTX's VLF's. These will never be able to go head to head with the PI once in saltwater, because they still have to contend with the salt content before they can find targets.The deeper the water you are hunting, the denser the electromagnetic signal that it produces will be. So I'm guessing but I would say once a VLF coil hits the saltwater the battle starts, the rougher, deeper the worse it gets. It's just like setting the coil of a VLF on a Metal table. It takes away from the sign strength. PI's have the same issues also but deal better with it, and the abilities of the operator to adjust the controls and sweep speed can help.

What other factors...everything, Some being the matrix under the coil, operator's abilities, contour of the bottom, water temps.. everything

Fresh Water, PP mode on the Excalibur rocks.....fresh is much better, but just like land hunting, whats under the coil will be the deciding factor
 

bigscoop

Gold Member
Jun 4, 2010
13,373
8,689
Wherever there be treasure!
Detector(s) used
Older blue Excal with full mods, Equinox 800.
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Excalibur, CZ20/21 CTX's VLF's. These will never be able to go head to head with the PI once in saltwater, because they still have to contend with the salt content before they can find targets.The deeper the water you are hunting, the denser the electromagnetic signal that it produces will be. So I'm guessing but I would say once a VLF coil hits the saltwater the battle starts, the rougher, deeper the worse it gets. It's just like setting the coil of a VLF on a Metal table. It takes away from the sign strength. PI's have the same issues also but deal better with it, and the abilities of the operator to adjust the controls and sweep speed can help.

What other factors...everything, Some being the matrix under the coil, operator's abilities, contour of the bottom, water temps.. everything

Fresh Water, PP mode on the Excalibur rocks.....fresh is much better, but just like land hunting, whats under the coil will be the deciding factor

I think that pretty much sums it up. I've even noticed that water temp and sand temp can have an effect on machine performance, Treasure Hunter & I have often discussed how much better our machines perform over the wet sand immediately following a hard rain, etc. There's just a lot of factors that come into play. On really calm/flat days I can get good depth and sensitivity out of my Excal and 12 x 15 SEF even in the fairly deeper saltwater, but add a current and some turbulence and I'm much better off in both categories with the 8" coil. This is why I don't like answering questions about "typical machine settings" because even on the same stretch of beach this can vary from hunt to hunt simply because the day's conditions require different settings to achieve the best machine performance possible.
 

Jackalope

Full Member
Jun 27, 2009
243
167
Oahu, HI
Detector(s) used
White's, Garrett, Minelab
Primary Interest:
Metal Detecting
I understand that the PI's generally go deeper in saltwater but do they go faster? That is, if the goal is to pull gold out of the sandy bottom what is the return on effort between PI and VLF and BBS Hybrid, which requires the least fails (iron).

It appears that some would argue that VLF/BBS with iron rejection is more efficient than PI with only pulse delay to approximate ferrous nature, ensuring a higher success rate.

Others would argue that PI uncovers deeper targets missed by VLF/BBS and because it won't miss any metal target it get everything, ensuring a higher success rate.

Wonder which is true.
 

Jolly Mon

Hero Member
Sep 3, 2012
868
631
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Since we are talking wet sand, the real question is this: what will the CTX 3030 do for you that an old Sovereign in a plastic bag won't?

I say very little, if anything.

That is why Minelab is discontinuing the Sovereign.

You can buy 7 or 8 old Sovereigns on the used market for the price of 1 CTX 3030.

When one of your Sovereigns breaks down, you can sell it for $150.00 to $200.00 as a non-functioning parts machine on Ebay.

Remember, if you have 7 or 8 old Sovereigns, you have the coils, rods, etc. as well as the control box. These items are worth money.


And you always have a back-up.

If you are going to really get into the water, you need to go Excal, CZ-21, BHID or Pulse anyway. Preferably pulse, if depth is what you are after. (talking salt water here).

Also remember this: in 10 years or so, you will not be able to get your CTX 3030 repaired. The sweethearts at Minelab will make sure of this.

If you exercise even the least caution in buying old Sovereigns and take just a modicum of care them in the field, they will last a very long time.

I have an original Sov and a Sov XS that just keep going and going with no appreciable drop off in performance. I basically only use them at the beach in the wet sand...even though they are both really good relic machines as well.
 

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