8 or 10 inch coil on the new EXCAL II

[kiana7]

Okay so after,I get done hunting today,I'll make my decision based upon the comments I get Excal 2 8 inch or 10 inch coil detector for my present.I was gonna order the 10 inch CZ21 again,but thought I already have an 8 inch coil,so why not try the Beast out,like everyone,hopefully I can learn that curve everyone talks about..Should I get a straight shaft as well and coil cover??
And to shop around for the best prices Hopefully I find something good today,,HH

 

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[tiderider]

Definantly get a coil cover,

 

[bigscoop]

Kiana, here's my 2 cents;


8” or 10” coil? If you hunt in a lot of strong current situations then get the 8” as this will help save off some fatigue and extend your hunting time. The 8” can also be run a bit hotter with a bit better stability in the turbulence, such as the breakwater areas, in areas where there is a lot of swirling sand and current, over uneven and rocky bottoms, ect. The down side to the 8” is the obvious loss in coverage area and perhaps some depth. I go with the 8” coil most of the time when water hunting my area beaches for the reasons mentioned above, but I seldom hunt the smoother wet sand with it simply because of the coverage loss.


“A straight shaft” provides a “huge” advantage because you can balance the unit out, otherwise the stock shaft leaves it front heavy and fatiguing. You can opt for a chest mount but this will open the door for advanced wire fatigue over a period of time, with the straight shaft the coil wire remains fixed/secure.


“Upgrading the headphones” should be on your list as soon as your machine is out of warranty, which will also be about the time that you are familiar enough with the machine to get the most out of this upgrade.

PS: Also bite the bullet now for the spare battery pod. Eventually you'll wish you had, and probably when the hunting is fantastic and after 20 minutes you suddenly realize that you forgot to charge your machine. This is why I also have AA pod and always carry a fresh pack of batteries, which you can get almost anywhere on very short notice.

 

[Sir Gala Clad]

As BS posted “A straight shaft” provides a “huge” advantage because you can balance the unit out, otherwise the stock shaft leaves it front heavy and fatiguing."
Further, depending upon your height, you can sweep a wider sweep side to side significantly extending the area hunted on any trip. I use an Anderson composit tall man shaft as I am over 6 ft tall. Also, get your self a lower composit shaft as it is lighter than the stock lower rod.

The 8 inch Tornado DD coil which is stock on the Minelab ll 800 is actually 7.25 inches in diameter, there are 41.354 square inches under this search coil

The 10 inch Tornado DD coil which is stock on the Minelab ll 1000 sees 78.675 square inches under it.
In other words the 10 inch search coil covers approximately twice (1.902) times as much surface area as the smaller coil.

The advantage(s) of smaller coils are:
- They are more sensitive to smaller items such as gold chains, which are very difficult to detect unless there is a pendant or large clasp, oherwise it will only sense one link at a time - not the whole chain (unless the chain is lumped in a ball) .
- They are ideal between objects such as large rocks on the beach or bushes in a park.
- Ideal for trash areas as there will be less targets under a smaller search coil.

The advantage of larger search coil are:
- It allows you to hunt a larger area in a given hunt as there is more surface area under the coil.
- Allows you to detect deeper larger items.

As a rule of thumb, under Ideal conditions, you can approximate the maximum depth by adding 2 inches to the diameter of the search coil.
- Theoretically, You should be able to detect a US Quarter at 9.25 inch depth with the Tornado 8 inch coil (actually 7.25 inch diameter).
- Theoretically, You should be able to detect a US Quarter at 12.00 inch depth with the Tornado 10 inch coil.
Note: I used the US Quarter as that is the size coin that US coin detectors are often calibrated at.

Please be aware that the CZ 21 uses a concentric coil (cone shaped pattern) while the mine lab uses a DD coil (chopping knife pattern).
The advantage of the concentric pattern is that it is easier to pin point with as the target is in the center of the coil and it is supposed to detect deeper.
It's disadvantage is that you have to be very careful to overlap your sweeps or you will miss targets.

As the DD coil sees a chopping blade shaped pattern directly under it, it is easier to isolate multiple targets and overlapping sweeps is not as critical.
However, it is more difficult to pin point where the target actually is.

Happy Birthday:
I would go with the Minelab ll 800 or 1000 depending on where you hunt and what you are searching for.
I would definitely repair my CZ 21 as it has different capabilities.

Almost forgot , you can sweep a smaller coil faster than a larger coil as there is less work for the processor to do.
This allows you to selectively search a large area, as you only have to slow down where there are a lot of targets.

Okay so after,I get done hunting today,I'll make my decision based upon the comments I get Excal 2 8 inch or 10 inch coil detector for my present.I was gonna order the 10 inch CZ21 again,but thought I already have an 8 inch coil,so why not try the Beast out,like everyone,hopefully I can learn that curve everyone talks about..Should I get a straight shaft as well and coil cover??
And to shop around for the best prices Hopefully I find something good today,,HH

 

[kiana7]

So I decided to go with the Excal 8 but shipping to Hawaii is like another 150 dollars more,if I was back home in Cali it would be free,already the machine is gonna cost 1500.not to mention an extra battery and straight shaft almost a 2000 machine,,any inputs guys..
My husband has a postal service in Cali,I wonder if I ship it their first,then his postal service can than ship it to me?? Any inputs Family??

 

[dennco2000]

US postal has one box one price that coil will fit in.

 

[bigscoop]

So I decided to go with the Excal 8 but shipping to Hawaii is like another 150 dollars more,if I was back home in Cali it would be free,already the machine is gonna cost 1500.not to mention an extra battery and straight shaft almost a 2000 machine,,any inputs guys..
My husband has a postal service in Cali,I wonder if I ship it their first,then his postal service can than ship it to me?? Any inputs Family??

I doubt there's a way around it. I do quite a bit of shipping a times and Hawaii is always more expensive. Just the price you pay when living in paradise.

I think the 8" is a good choice. Mine has sure netted me a lot of gold & goodies and it comes in really handy at times.

 

[Sir Gala Clad]

I would check with the post office first, to determine the amount you will be saving.

So I decided to go with the Excal 8 but shipping to Hawaii is like another 150 dollars more,if I was back home in Cali it would be free,already the machine is gonna cost 1500.not to mention an extra battery and straight shaft almost a 2000 machine,,any inputs guys..
My husband has a postal service in Cali,I wonder if I ship it their first,then his postal service can than ship it to me?? Any inputs Family??

If you ship to CA for free, and then reship from CA to HI, you will still have to pay for the additional insurance costs. I would check with the post office first to determine if what you save is worth the extra effort.

The 8 in coil should be ideal to hunt in the rougher Hawaiian waters.
If you find that you do not like that small of a coil, please send me a PM. I live on a near by Island and have an Excalibur ll with 10 in coil with approx. one year warranty left that I can swap plus cash to adjust for usage so that the values will be identical.

 

[STL8]

Ship it to me and I'll deliver it for free on my next trip to the islands! Happy Birthday!

So I decided to go with the Excal 8 but shipping to Hawaii is like another 150 dollars more,if I was back home in Cali it would be free,already the machine is gonna cost 1500.not to mention an extra battery and straight shaft almost a 2000 machine,,any inputs guys..
My husband has a postal service in Cali,I wonder if I ship it their first,then his postal service can than ship it to me?? Any inputs Family??

 

[Madmans Legend]

Larger coil doesnt necessarily mean you will detect deeper!!!

Okay so after,I get done hunting today,I'll make my decision based upon the comments I get Excal 2 8 inch or 10 inch coil detector for my present.I was gonna order the 10 inch CZ21 again,but thought I already have an 8 inch coil,so why not try the Beast out,like everyone,hopefully I can learn that curve everyone talks about..Should I get a straight shaft as well and coil cover??
And to shop around for the best prices Hopefully I find something good today,,HH

I made my Excalibur 2 so it has interchangable coils (stock 10 inch and Sunrey S-12) and then ran some target depth tests in an EMI shielded chamber to eliminate external interference. Cranked up the sensitivity high enough where the detector had a stable threshold tone and discrimination to the minimum. I made a plexiglass jig that has a place to mount the coil horizontally and a long arm attached to a stepper motor that allows me to control the sweep speed of the target on the arm and swings the target under the coil in a curved fashion just as you would be in the field. The targets being tested were a copper penny, a 1990 nickel, a 1995 dime and a 1997 quarter. With a sweep speed of slightly less than 3ft per second I adjusted the height of the coil to till the detector wasn't responsive to the target any more for all the above mentioned targets and both the coils I have concluded there is NO DEPTH ADVANTAGE of bigger sized coil over the stock 10''. The only advantage I noticed is the extra 2'' of coverage you get per swing. I am planning on repeating the test again this time recording the results along with some depth numbers for both of these coils. I'm an electrical engineer by trait and I will dissect the excalibur2 and many others in its entirety inside out. I'm a metal detector atheist and I take no companies side, I plan on showing metal detector functionality and side by side comparison just the way it is and no additional B*llSh*t. As to the bigger size of the coil not having any improved effect on this detector I welcome anyone to challenge me on this, gather your data and Ill present you with mine!!! Look for my videos released by ''Madman's Legend''.

 

[bigscoop]

I made my Excalibur 2 so it has interchangable coils (stock 10 inch and Sunrey S-12) and then ran some target depth tests in an EMI shielded chamber to eliminate external interference. Cranked up the sensitivity high enough where the detector had a stable threshold tone and discrimination to the minimum. I made a plexiglass jig that has a place to mount the coil horizontally and a long arm attached to a stepper motor that allows me to control the sweep speed of the target on the arm and swings the target under the coil in a curved fashion just as you would be in the field. The targets being tested were a copper penny, a 1990 nickel, a 1995 dime and a 1997 quarter. With a sweep speed of slightly less than 3ft per second I adjusted the height of the coil to till the detector wasn't responsive to the target any more for all the above mentioned targets and both the coils I have concluded there is NO DEPTH ADVANTAGE of bigger sized coil over the stock 10''. The only advantage I noticed is the extra 2'' of coverage you get per swing. I am planning on repeating the test again this time recording the results along with some depth numbers for both of these coils. I'm an electrical engineer by trait and I will dissect the excalibur2 and many others in its entirety inside out. I'm a metal detector atheist and I take no companies side, I plan on showing metal detector functionality and side by side comparison just the way it is and no additional B*llSh*t. As to the bigger size of the coil not having any improved effect on this detector I welcome anyone to challenge me on this, gather your data and Ill present you with mine!!! Look for my videos released by ''Madman's Legend''.

Well, there are times when you want some "natural environment" coming into play. I switch coils frequently, all the way from the stock 8" to the 12x15 SEF and there is certainly a noticeable difference in depth, just depends on the conditions being hunted and the item. I've personally never found too much field accuracy compared to air test for these reasons. Some days I can achieve great depths, some days I can't. Just so many factors that come into play outside the controlled environment.

 

[Madmans Legend]

Well, there are times when you want some "natural environment" coming into play. I switch coils frequently, all the way from the stock 8" to the 12x15 SEF and there is certainly a noticeable difference in depth, just depends on the conditions being hunted and the item. I've personally never found too much field accuracy compared to air test for these reasons. Some days I can achieve great depths, some days I can't. Just so many factors that come into play outside the controlled environment.

I cant speak for the SEF as I dont own one and have never tested one, I would love to test one out and do a comparison and post the results. As I said in my reply there is no depth advantage of the s-12 to the stock 10" coil. As to the air test compared to the ground test, the air test is very accurate but the only reason why detectors/coils are able to pick up metal deeper is because as metal sits in the ground for a long time some metal molecules "bleed off" the metal and soak up around the metal object and the coil sees that metal object as being bigger than it is. Here is a small test you can try your self just to convince yourself your mind is not playing tricks on you. As an example tale a quarter and air test it, mark down the maximum depth you were still barely able to pick up the coin. Then burry the coin at exactly the same maximum depth you achieved during air test and the coin should be comming in barely audible or not be audible at all if youre in highly mineralized ground and your detector is automatically ground cancelling. As another example you might be familliar with the notorious signal dissappearing on minelab detectors when youre close or just above the metal object while trying to dig it out. The reason that happens is if you just dug a hole for a metal object that has been sitting in the ground for a while and youre one more scoop away from digging it out and you run your detector over the hole and the signal disappears because you disturbed the molecule soaked ground that was above the metal and all of a sudden the metal object appears to be much smaller to the coil and your detector never sees the object till you bring the coil into the hole. I would love to hear anybody elses theory as to why the metal object disappears as you dig closer to it.

 

[bigscoop]

Here's a test for you to try. Go to the nearest beach, put your Excal in disc mode and set for stable operation. Now go tp the wet sand and keep burying a nickel a little deeper at a time until you can no longer read it under a normal swinging motion. Now impart a very swift, but short, back and forth sweep over the nickel. In theory this should have no effect, yet it does, and contrary to popular belief, the returns will still get processed and you will get the correct tone, though a very narrow, but repeatable tone at that. I've done this with dimes, pennies, nickels, gold rings, chains, etc., and it nearly always works. Why?

 

[Madmans Legend]

In theory this should have no effect, yet it does, Why?

Why would it not? The excalibur is an all motion machine for both modes of operation DISCRIMINATION and PINPOINT. I don't quite understand what your test looks to prove. All Im trying to tell you is that after you dig up the coin from your test and mark the exact depth and then go to air test it it will air test at the exact depth, assuming the metal object is not corroded which because of the corrosion will appear bigger to the coil and hence you will be able to detect it a little deeper. I have ran my test in a controlled lab environment air and sand and both have the same depth at a given sweep speed and sensitivity setting. The ground does not amplify the signal/field coming out of the coil, if anything it attenuates it the deeper you go. If you can show me a video of you test Im quite curious as to the results that show what youre saying.

 

[Sir Gala Clad]

I cant speak for the SEF as I dont own one and have never tested one, I would love to test one out and do a comparison and post the results. As I said in my reply there is no depth advantage of the s-12 to the stock 10" coil. As to the air test compared to the ground test, the air test is very accurate but the only reason why detectors/coils are able to pick up metal deeper is because as metal sits in the ground for a long time some metal molecules "bleed off" the metal and soak up around the metal object and the coil sees that metal object as being bigger than it is. Here is a small test you can try your self just to convince yourself your mind is not playing tricks on you. As an example tale a quarter and air test it, mark down the maximum depth you were still barely able to pick up the coin. Then burry the coin at exactly the same maximum depth you achieved during air test and the coin should be comming in barely audible or not be audible at all if youre in highly mineralized ground and your detector is automatically ground cancelling. As another example you might be familliar with the notorious signal dissappearing on minelab detectors when youre close or just above the metal object while trying to dig it out. The reason that happens is if you just dug a hole for a metal object that has been sitting in the ground for a while and youre one more scoop away from digging it out and you run your detector over the hole and the signal disappears because you disturbed the molecule soaked ground that was above the metal and all of a sudden the metal object appears to be much smaller to the coil and your detector never sees the object till you bring the coil into the hole. I would love to hear anybody elses theory as to why the metal object disappears as you dig closer to it.

I can easily give you two additional reasons:
1) The orientation of the target has changed E.G. a coin which was laying flat has turned on edge.
2) The hole was dug deeper than the coin and the coin has fallen into the bottom of the hole.

 

[bigscoop]

"As to the air test compared to the ground test, the air test is very accurate but the only reason why detectors/coils are able to pick up metal deeper is because as metal sits in the ground for a long time some metal molecules "bleed off" the metal and soak up around the metal object and the coil sees that metal object as being bigger than it is."

"Why would it not? The excalibur is an all motion machine for both modes of operation DISCRIMINATION and PINPOINT. I don't quite understand what your test looks to prove."

If both the above are true, then you're suggesting swing speed increases/decreases the size of the target? Look, I went through three SEF coils before I got one that performed a higher level, "but not always". I have a stock 8" that performs fantastic, "but not always". I've lost targets in the hole, due to the fact that they have repositioned themselves or slipped deeper into the hole, applying the swifter/rapid swing technique has allowed me to find them again. On many occasions, nearly each and every hunt, I'll encounter very weak, or intermittent responses, again, the swifter swing speed will produce a repeatable tone that will allow me to locate and center the target. So my point in all this is simply this, outside of the controlled environment, and from one coil to the next, on some days that S-12 might very well outperform the stock 10" coil. The problem with the controlled environment is just that. It's too controlled, so controlled it eliminates all the real world factors encountered in the actual field. Been there, and all it did was offer me a lot of information that was largely inaccurate once I trusted it in the actual field. Test a dozen S-12's, I'm betting they don't all air test exactly the same, the same goes for the Excal.

 

[bigscoop]

Madman, please allow me to apologize,as lack of sleep has been an issue lately and I'm apparently due for a few days of I&R, which I now plan on taking this week. Didn't mean to come off as I obviously did, but apparently the stress here is finally wearing me down. So, time for a change. See ya on the beach and good hunting!

 

[Detector Wars]

If you do end up getting the Excal with small coil, (it's actually 7.25"), it would be interesting to hear how it goes compared to the CZ 8".

 

[TheSleeper]

Madman, not trying to debate with ya.
In theory and in a lab you are correct, any item seen by a detector in air test should read same item in soil test at same depth.
BUT.
Soil composition, dryness, minerial content, halo(from the item) all add to the results one attains in the field.
If that isn`t enough, the machine you are using also comes into play, no two detectors are the same even if same model and manufactor. I have owned off the shelf excals that hit hotter then others.
Coils, no two coils are the same, again I have had coils that would hit an inch deeper then another of the same model and make and size.
Then different manufactors coils of the same size or slightly larger, ie: excal 10 and sunray 11, sunray LOVES silver, hits silver deeper then the stock excal, but not gold.
Sizewise, a WOT coil, beast of a coil, goes super deep, but small stud earring on the surface, never sees it.
Excal, will hit the same target deeper in pinpoint than it will in disc.

There are so many variables in this hobby, that a blanket statement just cannot hold up in real world hunting.

What I'm saying isn`t text book theory or lab test, its from 34 years of detecting.