Beach Metal Detecting to be banned in Mass. effective July 1

Mi$terG

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All:

Not sure if you've seen the post in another forum on T-Net, but apparently there is a new law about to go into effect (July 1) which will ban the use of metal detectors on all DCR beaches (basically all public beaches). There is a petition that has been started that I urge you to sign and to pass on to as many people as you can. Once detecting is banned on MA beaches, it opens the door to bans in other states. Lets try to stop this insanity if we can. Thanks. I will attach a link to the petition below.

MoveOn Petitions - Commissioner Jack Murray: Stop the banning of metal detecting on Massachusetts beaches
 

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Msbeepbeep

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Sorry didn't see your post till today. I am guessing the phone calls and e-mails so far have gone to the DCR Commissioner, probably should check with BARKER, he is gathering that info for us.
I really hope this works out for us, and we don't get skewered in the process.
If it doesn't there will be absolutely nothing left for me at Mass. DCR beaches., zip!
 

JackInFlorida

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Thanks TH.

Intresting enough, this is nothing new. We've had to get "special permits" in Florida for umpteen years.
Case in point: Ft.Desoto (permit required, state park) -- Honeymoon Island (state park, no hunting, but permission given for finding "lost" items).
Florida law states no hunting in state parks, period, but it varies from park to park, ranger to ranger.

BTW, Fort Desoto Park is a county park. You can't metal detect in a State Park In Florida except on a beach.
 

Sir Gala Clad

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To answer PhipsFolly's question:

We are the ones that are In power and it is the Government that represents us. By not lobbying for our interests and strongly voicing our opposition when something is restricted or taken away, we allow this to happen.

With the advances in communications and travel, we have been distracted by minutia and trivia failing to see the big picture. Most are overwhelmed and don’t want to be bothered failing to see what happens to one person happens to all (no man is an island). If you look at prior Sir Gala Clad postings, you will see that I have posted numerous times on what is wrong, but seldom do I see replies to my posts other than complaints, except for one member who took the time (I respect him for that) to state that I only was trying to stir up trouble, implying that I was a troll.

Instead of seeking and working for desirable relationships with those who represent us, we resort to name calling and finding blame. Failing to realize that we are the ones that are letting it happen, as we are the ones in power.

A meeting with the DCR Commission is not only positive it is essential.
Minutes need to be taken and followed up on a periodic basis. Here are some of the questions which should be addressed:

Artifacts – if there are artifacts what actions are being taken to collect, preserve and display them, especially items of historical significance?
Is there an ongoing program, to take advantage, of volunteers, including metal detectorists?

Archeologist(s) - What actions are they talking to find and preserve our history?
If they are paid by the citizens, the value added by them needs to be quantified and justified

Is there an ongoing program, to take advantage?
of volunteers, including metal detectorists.
If not why are you not taking advantage of those volunteers.

Beach(s) - What is being done to keep the beaches clean and safe for wild life?
Is there an ongoing program, to take advantage?
Of volunteers, including metal detectorists.

Fairness - Do the same rules apply to anyone who uses the beach?
{Artists, Families, Joggers, Kite Flyers, Metal Dectorists, Musicians, Sunbathers, Surfers, Wildlife Watchers, etcetera, etcetera}
If they are different, why is a particular group discriminated against?

In Short: All Government Managers/Administrators/Whatever – should be held accountable
For their action(s).


In Sumary: The Petition should be to stop the proposed ban on Metal Detecting.
The media: (local, county, state, national, international) should be used for
Public Outcry – When Necessary!
 

Msbeepbeep

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All you have said is appreciated! Roger, Ron and others are trying very hard to implement the very things you have stated! Like minds!
The DCR has put a hold on the law till this is resolved. Only because they have been overwhelmed by phone calls, e-mails, and the petition, not because it was the right thing to do. In England they have worked it out, but not here yet. The powers that be ( most of them) don't view MD'rs as equals in preserving antiquities.... Truly regrettable.
I find it odd that "only" MD'ers are out lawed. I have seen other people do the same thing or worse with no repercussions. You would think the ACLU would be beating down our door trying to help us.
I have he feeling "they" are just waiting for us to blink.
So here is their ph# & e-mail to just remind them "we are the boss!"

Ph# 1-617-626-1250
OMG am I e-cursed or what? Ok, again! You all know the htt www thing so just put .mass.gov/DCR after, ok? MURPHY YOU S .....!!!!!!!
Sorry, I can't even post an e-mail address with out it screwing
Up!

The more the merrier in this fight! What we don't stop here will be coming to your town, soon.
 

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WaterWalker

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We are good to go on the beaches and in the water. Still can NOT cut roots, even grass roots or walk on the dunes, let alone detect on them. I have not seen the printed CMR yet. A detectorist was asked to leave one beach north of Boston. I do not know the details.

The latest info from Roger is:

From: Palmer, Shaneice (DCR) (DCR) <[email protected]>
To: 'Roger Barbrick'
Cc: FitzPatrick, Ellen (DCR) (DCR) <[email protected]>
Sent: Wed, Jun 18, 2014 10:19 am
Subject: RE: Metal detecting on DCR beaches

Dear Mr. Barbrick: I am sending this email on behalf of Mrs. Ellen FitzPatrick who is currently out of office. Thank you for your follow-up email. We apologize for any confusion and hope that this email can provide some clarification. After receiving your latest email, I consulted with several of my colleagues in order to better understand the intent of the latest recommendation regarding our metal detecting regulation. As it pertains to metal detecting on coastal and inland beaches, permission from the park supervisor will actually not be required. I apologize for any confusion that may have been caused by the previous email. As for other non-beach areas within DCR parks and forests – where metal detecting is not currently allowed due to potential natural, cultural, and archaeological resource protection concerns – metal detecting will be allowed when searching for specific lost personal property with verbal permission from the park supervisor. Once again, thank you for your continued interest in DCR. We hope this addresses your questions. Sincerely, DCR MassParks Team
 

Tom_in_CA

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reply

We are good to go on the beaches and in the water. Still can NOT cut roots, even grass roots or walk on the dunes, let alone detect on them. I have not seen the printed CMR yet. A detectorist was asked to leave one beach north of Boston. I do not know the details.

The latest info from Roger is:

From: Palmer, Shaneice (DCR) (DCR) <[email protected]>
To: 'Roger Barbrick'
Cc: FitzPatrick, Ellen (DCR) (DCR) <[email protected]>
Sent: Wed, Jun 18, 2014 10:19 am
Subject: RE: Metal detecting on DCR beaches

Dear Mr. Barbrick: I am sending this email on behalf of Mrs. Ellen FitzPatrick who is currently out of office. Thank you for your follow-up email. We apologize for any confusion and hope that this email can provide some clarification. After receiving your latest email, I consulted with several of my colleagues in order to better understand the intent of the latest recommendation regarding our metal detecting regulation. As it pertains to metal detecting on coastal and inland beaches, permission from the park supervisor will actually not be required. I apologize for any confusion that may have been caused by the previous email. As for other non-beach areas within DCR parks and forests – where metal detecting is not currently allowed due to potential natural, cultural, and archaeological resource protection concerns – metal detecting will be allowed when searching for specific lost personal property with verbal permission from the park supervisor. Once again, thank you for your continued interest in DCR. We hope this addresses your questions. Sincerely, DCR MassParks Team

water-walker, thanx for posting this.

I did a double-take when I read the following quote though:

"..... As for other non-beach areas within DCR parks and forests – where metal detecting is not currently allowed due to potential natural, cultural, and archaeological resource protection concerns ....."

Ok, ask yourself how "fickle" this now is. If it's only "natural, cultural, and archaeological" artifacts that differentiate the two type terrains, ask yourself "why?". In other words, why isn't there some purist archie somewhere raising the natural question of artifacts ON THE BEACH ? I mean, let's face it: a historical artifact can JUST AS WELL be found on the beach, as it can on land, right? (an old coin, etc...)

About the only counter argument that *could* be raised to counter that reason to extend the rule to the beach, is the following: "Loss of context." Because unlike terra-firma ground, which remains fairly constant over the eons of time, yet beach sand is constantly shifting. Especially if we're talking the inter-tidal zone, where erosion and re-fill are constantly moving sands. Right? But notice that this counter-point would have zero argumentative effect, if a md'r were trying to use the same logic point to allow him to hunt in a furroughed field of a land site. Or if a tractor scrape were occuring in a state's inland park, etc... To say "but it's no problem, as context is lost", still wouldn't get you a "yes", right? Because a purist archie would simply counter that things like erosion cycles, tractor movements, etc.... can all be taken into the over-all archaeological "fingerprint" of study, blah blah blah.

Or even if not left to this cultural stuff, why isn't someone there who's in the middle of all this, raising a "no", simply by virtue of their present rules which forbid "harvesting and removal" ? You know, laws written way-back-when so-as -to-stop persons from thinking they can back up a truck and start harvesting sand. Or to think you can take home the picnic benches, etc... Technically there is no reason why such rules can't be morphed to result in "no metal detecting" .

All I can say is, I hope that this perpetual back and forth "clarifying" currently going on, and streams of md'rs going in and asking "can I metal detect yet?" etc.... don't bring un-wanted attention , to where the "pressing question" someday, somehow, finds its way into a future "no".

Anytime our hobby gets "specfically allowed" (as in here in this case, or as in the cases of places with "permits"), you will notice that ......... inevitably.... that just opens it up for perpetual review. It's simply now "always on their radar" as something that needs their princely sanction and approval. It 's something that perpetually now gets ask (as for umpteen years-to-come, there'll be no shortage of md'r questions about "this MA thing"). And sure enough, the day will come, that it will be changed back.

So it's almost as if I wish every single forum moderator would /could delete every single thread that ever had anything to do with this flap. It's good that it got resolved, but the mere presence now of these threads (which will forever be showing up on key-word searches), is that it's going to cause generations of md'rs to come, to "go seeking clarification", thus perpetually keeping it on pencil-pushers desks as something in need of their attention. And even though the threads, of course, say that the issue is gone and past, yet .... simply the titles of threads alone (for people who don't read deep and long to -the-end), is going to cause the perpetual "asking" psychology :(

Why do you think that of all 50 states in the USA, that only Florida gets the perpetual persons coming on to forums, asking about legalities of FL beaches? Notice you NEVER get those amounts of questions about any other state's beaches. Have you ever wondered why? It's this exact psychology at play: All it takes is one beach, or one "scram" or one shot down law, or one oddity of a shipwreck beach, or one scary story, etc... And then presto: forever more, well-meaning skittish people will have a notion that there's something illegal about some beaches there. And then , as I say, it's only a matter of time then, when it simply becomes a self-fulfilling cycle :(
 

Tom_in_CA

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.... In England they have worked it out, but not here yet......

msbeepbeep, American md'rs eyes often wax romantic at the British system. But trust me: you DON'T want the British system here. Why do you think they do next to zero percent hunting on public land over there? Why do you think all their hunting is primarily on farmers lands with permission ? Because everything under the ground there belongs to the queen. And they only "grant" you permission to keep a portion of big-ticket items you find on farmer bob's land, with farmer's permission.

And when and if you find something good on private land there, you are forced to sell at what THEY say is fair market prices, and give it up, etc... Hmm, but here in the USA, if you find gold bars on farmer bob's land, guess who's matter that is between ? STRICTLY FARMER BOB AND YOU. To keep and do what you want with. Since when should Uncle Sam have say-so in what you or I find on someone's private land ?? Thus no, you don't want the British system. It's not allowing them "unfettered access" to public land anyhow. So you're totally mis-understanding it.

............ I find it odd that "only" MD'ers are out lawed. I have seen other people do the same thing or worse with no repercussions......

What things/actions that are "worse" are you referring to ? I lost you there. As as far as metal detecting is concerned, you might THINK it's innocuous. But don't you know their talking points yet ? Of why they think it needs such "no's" and "regulations" ? Because if you ask enough archies, you're going to run into the "cultural heritage" issue. I mean, heaven-help us if you found a merc (gasp) or a horseshoe, etc.... Or holes/disturbance. Or removing/collecting/harvesting. I mean what gives you & I the right to take home park resources for your own pleasure and profit ? What's next? Cutting down the trees for firewood ? Harvesting all the roses in the rose-garden to sell at the market ? Taking home the swing sets ? Technically speaking, objects in the ground (even though un-seen) belong to the the public, the park's controlling entity, etc... No different than the picnic benches, etc....

So there's a WHOLE HOST of evils that can be said about metal detecting, such that .... no ... you're not going to get the ACLU's sympathy. And the fastest way to conjur up all these potential "evils" to decision maker's radar, is to do all we can to put this front and center in front of them for their princely consideration. Then it gets passed back and forth to multiple desks, and sure as sh*t, someone's gonna come up with some nonsense from the list of evils above.

So the best bet it to keep it OFF their radar. That they NOT think of us. That there NOT need to be some sort of "express allowance" of our hobby. That the rules simply be silent on the subject (in-so-far as specifically listing it by name anyhow). Because the truth is, the vast majority of people do NOT see harm in it. They do NOT think of taking coins or rings as running afoul of "collecting and harvesting". They do NOT see cultural damage, unless you were truly tromping on a sensitive historical monument. So if most people think we're innocuous, then the less desks it must float past for approval and "deep thought", the better.
 

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