Discriminating with a PI machine

[Billinoregon]

I've been told it can't be done, but here is Clive Clynick's metal detecting tip No. 5, which seems might well apply when using a pulse machine:

Where possible, work in all metal mode. To improve your accuracy, learn to confirm your targets in all-metal to save needless digging. Recognising narrow, round non-ferrous indications is the most important skill you can have with any detector.

How many of you who use a PI feel confident NOT to dig every target?

 

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[Fletch88]

I do about 70-80% of the time if I sweep at 90 degree angles and get a waiver on the threshold. Coins, solid rings etc will have a smooth, round response no matter what angle you hit it from. I dug many just to confirm and most of the time I was right. Now that being said an odd shaped piece of jewelry could possibly give same type response and you will never know 100% unless you dig it, but usually a double blip is iron. The one thing that always fools me is those dad-blamed freshly dropped sparkler wires. They seem to never give anything but a good, consistent sound from every angle.

 

[Billinoregon]

Good to know Fletch. Thanks for sharing your experience.

 

[stephenscool]

It depends on which PI you are using. SS and DF are much easier to leave targets. Using something like a TDI cranked near full is very hard to discriminate. I've had rings, earings, even necklaces double beep like a bobby pin.

 

[Billinoregon]

Good to know, Stephen. I have a Dual Field. Can't wait to use it!

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Bill, I've bumped into several pulse users over the years (with varying brands/types of beach pulse machines) who have claimed (perhaps like Clive ) that they can tell nails apart from coins and rings, etc... But those very same people claiming this, will quickly leave a nail-riddled beach in disgust, to go find 'greener grounds'. Like after storm erosion leaves lots of targets to choose from including nails.

And if you press those people who make this claim, and ask them about "bent nails", they'll usually admit that the sound tricks only work for the straight nails, not the bent ones.

And as fletch88 so correctly pointed out: Even when some pulse user thinks he's *finally* got the sound/tone recipe down pat , you can BET he's going to be digging a bunch "just to be sure", doh ! And as fletch and stephenscool say: There's always going to be the nagging doubt that an elongated necklace or bracelet or stick-pin, etc... could mimic the sound of a straight nail.

So unless you are on some very nasty black sand mineral section of coast, I would elect to go with a standard discriminator. Like a Sovereign, Excal, Explorer, CZ6, etc... Another exception where pulse can come in handy, is high end touristy beaches like Hawaii, parts of So. CA, etc... Because industrial junk and nails (especially if they don't allow beach bonfires) isn't as much of an issue, if it's a strictly high end ritzy tourist beach.

 

[stephenscool]

Bill, I've bumped into several pulse users over the years (with varying brands/types of beach pulse machines) who have claimed (perhaps like Clive ) that they can tell nails apart from coins and rings, etc... But those very same people claiming this, will quickly leave a nail-riddled beach in disgust, to go find 'greener grounds'. Like after storm erosion leaves lots of targets to choose from including nails.

And if you press those people who make this claim, and ask them about "bent nails", they'll usually admit that the sound tricks only work for the straight nails, not the bent ones.

And as fletch88 so correctly pointed out: Even when some pulse user thinks he's *finally* got the sound/tone recipe down pat , you can BET he's going to be digging a bunch "just to be sure", doh ! And as fletch and stephenscool say: There's always going to be the nagging doubt that an elongated necklace or bracelet or stick-pin, etc... could mimic the sound of a straight nail.

So unless you are on some very nasty black sand mineral section of coast, I would elect to go with a standard discriminator. Like a Sovereign, Excal, Explorer, CZ6, etc... Another exception where pulse can come in handy, is high end touristy beaches like Hawaii, parts of So. CA, etc... Because industrial junk and nails (especially if they don't allow beach bonfires) isn't as much of an issue, if it's a strictly high end ritzy tourist beach.

Using something like a DF or SS discrimination is possible. I dig everything anyways but I try to determine what it is before digging. The TDI is an entirely different game. I don't even try to geuss what it is. Even the 3ft deep chunks of iron are difficult to get a read on until you dig out a foot or 2

 

[ron lord]

If you have the money, an ATX can disc. hot rocks and small iron.If you have an area that has been hunted out go over it with an ATX, and you will be sup. what you will find.

 

[Terry Soloman]

You cannot discriminate with a pulse induction machine - PERIOD. You can use your time and experience on the headphones to GUESS what that double beep or grainy growl is, but you can't discriminate. If you are not digging all targets in the wet sand and water, then why did you get the PI in the first place?

 

[Billinoregon]

Terry, I'll be digging everything until I feel like I have gotten to know the machine. I realize the PIs are dig-all-targets machines if you want to find EVERY good target. I was reading about this in another location and one veteran PI user says he has found gold rings that double blipped exactly like bobby pins.

 

[Terry Soloman]

I have as well. Old gold rings are sometimes ground away by the sand and have a break in them which causes them to sound just like a bobby pin. Certain chains give weird signals. I love gold so I dig it all in the water and wet!

 

[lookindown]

You cannot discriminate with a pulse induction machine - PERIOD. You can use your time and experience on the headphones to GUESS what that double beep or grainy growl is, but you can't discriminate. If you are not digging all targets in the wet sand and water, then why did you get the PI in the first place?

I think they want the depth of a PI but also want discrimination....is the only advantage to using a PI the increased depth?

 

[stephenscool]

target identification is a form of discrimination. some detectors have a longer learning curve than others.

 

[OBN]

I have friends that use the DF and our some of the best at using it, Clive has used them as references in his books on the DF. One little trick I picked up from Gary Storm was being able to adjust the Pulse delay on a target easier, with this you find a deep target, adjust the delay up to check and see if it is gold. If it Disappears there is a good chance it is gold since the lower pulse delay loves gold. The taller chrome knob stands out from the others, helping you find and adjust quickly.

 

[Terry Soloman]

You are correct OBN, but this is "Elimination," not discrimination.

 

[Terry Soloman]

I think they want the depth of a PI but also want discrimination....is the only advantage to using a PI the increased depth?

That is why I use a PI rather than a multi-freq machine with a big heavy coil LD. I can get more depth, comparable sensitivity, and superior stability in a sub-five-pound machine.

 

[gollum]

Terry is absolutely correct. I mostly use PI rather than multi-frequency. I have a couple of VHF Detectors, but I mainly use my modded SD2000 and my Schiebel MIMID. I used to use an XTerra 70 with multiple coils (and multiple freqs) when I went prospecting and/or exploring. I have had such a great experience with my Schiebel, and the fact that is so ultra-portable, makes it my take-along detector. I like PI Detectors. Period. VHF's have their place, but you can't beat a PI for depth .............. unless, of course, you have a magnetometer, but that only sees ferrous metals. REMEMBER: That treasure chest has hinges, a hasp, and a padlock that are all made of iron! That is why I also have a Fisher FX-3 Ferro-Probe. What equipment I use is determined by what type of treasure I am hunting.

As far as Discriminating PI Detectors, our best hope from about 2005 until 2013 was a will-o-the-wisp by a man named David Emory called The Pulse Devil:




Notice the last two pics:

#2. Notice the "DISCRIMINATE" knob?
#3. Bottom left readout "DISC"

One excuse after another. Everything from production issues, ROh Compliancy, health problems, etc plagued Emory until I guess he just gave up. There was a point in about 2012 that Emory said everything was ready to go, and machines would be shipped out shortly..... then ...... health problems again. Too bad. It may have been a ground breaker had it been brought to market.

Mike

 

[dewcon4414]

You can get some feel for SOME targets with a PI, and like Ole Beach Nut said use the pulse delay to uncover some of the iron, .... but you are just making a decision to dig about everything when you are using a PI. BUT.... with a disc VLF you are making that same decision........ NOT to dig certain targets, either can cost you good targets or time.

 

[OBN]

A few years ago .. when I posted the video I got a note from Eric Foster.. said you got the settings wrong... A discriminating PI one of a few he build for testing.. I could never get the hang of this one..

 

[frogmaster-riviera]

As far as Discriminating PI Detectors, our best hope from about 2005 until 2013 was a will-o-the-wisp by a man
One excuse after another. Everything from production issues, ROh Compliancy, health problems, etc plagued Emory until I guess he just gave up. There was a point in about 2012 that Emory said everything was ready to go, and machines would be shipped out shortly..... then ...... health problems again. Too bad. It may have been a ground breaker had it been brought to market.

Mike

Hi Mike!

There is a maybe an other man in France ;-)

He has developped his proper PI with discrimination. He his knowed here for modding Eric Foster detectors.

Google around MANTA DETECTOR, we are a few to have some protos..... have a look'on youtube vs Eric Foster PI