Need advice on setting up a forge...

[Crispin]

GIB and I have been excavating a site that we believe to be where the Spanish set up a crude forge and melted down silver to dodge the tax of the Spanish Crown. We know for sure there are at least one shipwreck in the area. I have invited Treasure Hunter into the area but he is not interested due to the lack of gold...understandable. So, I am attempting to create a crude forge in my backyard to recreate how it may have been done. I am hoping this will help us better understand the area we are excavating. I figured out that in order to get the coals hot enough I needed to dig a pit and use a combo of oak and palm as wood. I plan to carve a design into oak to pour the melted silver into for the mold. However, I did advice on a couple things....

1. What do I use to melt the silver nuggets in (will post pictures of all nuggets prior to meltilng.)
2. What do I use to pick up what holds the melted ingredients to transfer to the mold?

I think I got everything else covered; however, I would appreciate any trouble shooting for what could advise. I will take lots of pictures. Thanks all...here is my preliminary pics of forge building to see what burned hottest...

 

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[dieselram94]

I now a little about more modern, less crude forges; and they all use blowers to get a hotter fire and also to control the amount of heat as it's fairly easy to over heat metals and ruin them. Like getting steel to the point it glows white...I have no idea if the Spanish used any type of blower, or fan to do this. As far as what to melt the silver in I would think cast iron would be a good choice to use as a crucible? I know I have melted lead easily this way but I'm not sure what temperature silver melts at? Maybe need a flux as well? Soda ash possibly? I'm eager to see how this goes!

As far as what to use to pick up the melting pot, I would use blacksmith tongs. I have a set in my shop I could snap a pic of tomorrow if you would like.

Sent from a spun out toilet paper tube (one ply)!

 

[dieselram94]

Here's a forge I rebuilt, notice how the blower blowes into the bottom of the fire.
Buffalo forge restored!
Hello everyone, I restored this old riviters forge awhile ago but thought I would post it here. I dipped every piece in an electrolysis bath and then painted and re-lettered the blower. It worked like new and I sold it for a HUGE profit! I wish I had more of these to restore...




http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3913503


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[flgliderpilot]

I would imagine they must have used a bellows of some sort to keep the fire roaring, but that is just a W A G.

Another option is to place the pot of silver in the center and build the fire around it.

 

[pat-tekker-cat]

What dram said, blacksmith tongs to hold your crucible, for melting. The bellow thingy or hot hot fire.
Keep thinking old school, whatda them old ME folks do, when they melt (?), pour it over in to water, get them little pellet beads of silver?
A you tube search of "old school silver melting" can maybe "show" you. I hadn't made bullets in years, but that was lead we was melting.
Good luck, too ya'll's!

 

[cudamark]

Whichever method you use, be sure to vent it properly. Fumes from melting metals can be quite toxic.

 

[gunsil]

Silver melts at 1763 degrees F. It is melted in ceramic crucibles, not cast iron. You are not dealing with low melting lead here so any experience with that is useless. Your idea of a "forge" seems pretty unlikely, you will need at least charcoal (not briquettes) and a bellows blower (were available to the early Spanish). A big open fire will be unlikely to do the trick, a smaller contained fire with charcoal and a bellows in a concentrated smaller area will be more likely to work. Where did you get the silver nuggets from and do you know the purity? Naturally different alloys of silver will have different melting points.

 

[dewcon4414]

Might try just detecting around in AM..... you could just find what you are looking for. Not sure how the ashes will affect the detecting thou....... sometimes its very hard to get any depth in those conditions.

 

[Jason in Enid]

Go search youtube for the old BBC show called "time team". There is one account that has the entire series in a playlist, so you can go from 1 to the end. Time Team did may episodes where they built ancient forges to re-create exactly how things they find were made. I couldn't tell you exactly which episodes they are in, but they are there if you take some time. They show exactly how the forges were made and functioned, along with all the problems of getting it to work.

 

[Crispin]

Silver melts at 1763 degrees F. It is melted in ceramic crucibles, not cast iron. You are not dealing with low melting lead here so any experience with that is useless. Your idea of a "forge" seems pretty unlikely, you will need at least charcoal (not briquettes) and a bellows blower (were available to the early Spanish). A big open fire will be unlikely to do the trick, a smaller contained fire with charcoal and a bellows in a concentrated smaller area will be more likely to work. Where did you get the silver nuggets from and do you know the purity? Naturally different alloys of silver will have different melting points.

You brought up some remarkably good points and tips. My research leads me to believe that oak burns between 900 and 1200 degrees. This would appear to not be enough to melt silver. I plan on digging a trench and using palm fronds as bellows. Will try tomorrow morning and take pics. I have an old ceramic piece I can use as a crucible but it appears that I will not be successful. Nonetheless, I will try. What do you mean by charcoal. Who would early Spanish have access to such?

 

[stefen]

Make a wood form with slightly tapered sides.

Then buy or make a 4 sided casting box and place the wood form into it.(use dry baby powder on form)

Then use dry casting sand and pound it around the wood mold...

The key is to have a moisture-free casting bed or the steam created could explode in your face...

There are some things that are best left to people with experience...

Learn casting by using lead or aluminum then venture to higher temp metals.

Think wood or palm may burn to a crisp if used as a form...

You'll also need to obtain asbestos gloves, mask, tongs, crucible, maybe a blacksmiths or ferriers leather apron, and the like...kinda of a costly adventure

 

[cudamark]

I think he's trying to replicate the same method the Spanish used in making ingots.

 

[gunsil]

They definitely had the technology to make charcoal and you can learn to do it yourself via google. They also had coal, they weren't prehistoric you know, but I do not know if they brought coal over here with them. Better to carve an ingot mold from a brick or make one from locally mined clay, moisture in wood can explode. They also had regular bellows made from wood and leather which are simple enough to make. Start small, only melt an ounce or so until you get your temperatures, crucible and mold worked out. I make jewelry and sometimes melt sterling with my torch and pour it into grooves or depressions in a charcoal block to make crude ingots out of my scrap (leftover) metal.
Still would like to see your "nuggets" since silver does not really occur naturally in nugget form.