Access and Egress from water

[TooManyHobbies]

While researching local swimming holes, a question popped into my head. If you have access to a swimming area through a private parcel, or by a state beach or boat launch, can you theoretically go around the entire body of water (fresh water pond/lake) and detect as long as egress is in the same spot that you entered?
Back when I did a lot of bass fishing, dock owners would come out and give us heck once in a while claiming we were too close to their dock/swimming area. Popular opinion was they didn't have any right to the water around their dock as long as we stayed off of the dock. Is it the same with detecting in the water (touching/digging bottom), as long as you stay off the dock and don't try to exit through their property?
If you don't have the right to go all the way around the lake, then at what point in the water or you trespassing onto the neighbor's property?

 

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[Tom_in_CA]

...Back when I did a lot of bass fishing, dock owners would come out and give us heck once in a while claiming we were too close to their dock/swimming area....

Good question. The issue of beach and intertidal zone (versus dunes, versus water-itself) comes up about the ocean-facing beaches a lot. And the savings grace is as you say: No one can claim the inter-tidal beach as "private property". But not sure how it applies to inland navigable lakes though .

But I notice that you allude to the similar scenario happening when you used to go fishing. You say that you would get heck "once in awhile". I take that to mean "infrequently", right ? And I'm assuming you didn't end up in jail, or ticketed, blah blah, right ? Then what's to stop the same procedure when md'ing ? Ie.: Just go. And risk that you might get an occasional gripe (whether it's founded or not) ?

 

[cudamark]

I would think there are posted rules about the definition of a public swim area and where the boundaries are, how much if any beach is included, high water mark, access, etc. Look up the parcel in question and see who governs it. They should have a code book with the info you need.

 

[TooManyHobbies]

Thanks for the replies. Cuda, my question is more related to not so obvious areas. For example, I can get permission from a cottage owner to do HIS swimming area around HIS dock. Does my permission end at the next dock, or can I continue around the pond as long as I stay in the water. So, I would be hitting private swim areas on a public pond/lake. The shore is private and the docks are too, but is the water and bottom in/around the rest of the body of water private as well?

 

[DeepseekerADS]

Great question and subject!

The lakes around here are state owned, but there's one spot my hunting buddy heard about - a private beach on that lake. He asked permission to search that beach, but the parties were non-responsive. We obtained permits from the state on that lake, but we're limited to the beach sand and the water within boundaries. Thus far we can't touch that private beach.

 

[cudamark]

Could be. My relatives own a parcel on a lake and their property goes out to an agreed upon center. Their "pie shaped" section is defined in the deed. Of course, this is a totally private lake, no public allowed without permission, but, it should still be spelled out somewhere in the land parcel documents and/or public entity documents. Look up the land parcel at the county courthouse/tax collector site. It will show who owns the part you want to hunt and where the boundaries are.

 

[ChampFerguson/TN]

Know your state and local laws. Don't "Just Do It" because someone on the internet told you it was probably ok.

In my (landlocked) state, navigable waters belong to the state and you may use those waters to fish and all other legal uses. Note that private ponds are just that- Private, same as dirt, so ask permission for those of course. (also my state has a special agency called TVA that claims water they control and prohibits metal detecting on those. again, KNOW the local law).

 

[can]

Good question. No one can claim the inter-tidal beach as "private property". ?

No one except for the Feds

 

[can]

in some states there are waters involved in King's Grants believe it or not. While you can float on the water you cannot get out of your boat and walk on the bottom. This is considered trespassing. Kings Grants are few and far between, but you just gotta know where you are.

 

[ChampFerguson/TN]

Aren't there some intertidals where it is considered private property? The only solution there is to stay in the water. I think I read about that recently. Like up the in areas that people like the Kennedys and Bushs own homes. Cant have unwashed peons walking near their houses and all that 'eh.

Just throwing that out as a question to the northeasterners- I have no specific knowledge of this past what I wrote above.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

..... . Does my permission end at the next dock, or can I continue around the pond as long as I stay in the water. So, I would be hitting private swim areas on a public pond/lake. ....

And again I ask you: If you already had the practice of bass fishing in the exact same scenario, then why is md'ing somehow now different ? In bass fishing, you said you rarely got questioned/hassled (whether based on correct legal reasonings or not). So why not just apply the same real-life procedures to md'ing in the same exact set of ingredients ?


Re.: No one can claim the inter-tidal beach as "private property"

No one except for the Feds

Can: Yes, then in that case, it's public , not private. Doh Sure: Subject to the rules/laws governing the use of the land. And if nothing specifically said "no md'ing", then presto, it's not prohibited.

 

[TooManyHobbies]

Tom, I guess I'll find out...one way or the other. I haven't found it in any regs yet.

 

[GreenMeanie]

I don't know if it matters State by State but surf casters in RI deal with this all the time. The people with the million dollar homes think they own the water you are standing in too. I have been told while fishing they called the COPS on me numerous times and I said OK I will wait here for them and guess what the COPS never showed.
They also like to block the public access ways that are kept a really big secret. But if you look around in books and things like that you can still access them no matter what they say. So even if you metal detect only you still might want to join a few surf casting clubs because they fight these people and the GOV in court quite often to make sure we still have rights to the water.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... I haven't found it in any regs yet.

Then if it's silent on the subject, well .... It's silent on the subject. Just as if you found nothing that addressed flying frisbees, you would therefore assume there's no reason you can't fly frisbees.

 

[Fletch88]

I used to live on a lake that had a sort of public boat ramp so I understand their side. While fisherman never did bother me too much, some of the idiots who never should be operating a boat did.

If I saw a guy wading around up in the swimming area digging holes with a scoop, I think it would have been a problem.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... If I saw a guy wading around up in the swimming area digging holes with a scoop, I think it would have been a problem.

Good point fletch. That while a lookie-lou neighboring property owner might not have a problem with flying frisbees, fishing, etc... yet they might have a problem with metal detecting. And yes, you're right: metal detectors have admitted connotations. Eg.: that you might be about to "take" something. Or that you might be about to leave a hole, etc...

To which I would then say: "So what ?" In this hobby you are simply not going to please every last person on the planet. As much as I wish they would roll out red carpets for me, I've resigned myself to realize this just isn't going to happen. So if a spot has good md'ing potential (barbers and seateds, or gold rings on a beach), I'll just go at lesser traffic times when such lookie-lous are not likely to be present to gripe. Like even at night (on turf for instance). So peaceful. So serene.

The prospects that "someone might gripe" or "let me make sure I have everyone's say-so- and approval" does not stop me from detecting. Lest I eventually end up precluding myself from a lot of good spots, and end up with only boring sandboxes to hunt in .

 

[Fletch88]

Good point fletch. That while a lookie-lou neighboring property owner might not have a problem with flying frisbees, fishing, etc... yet they might have a problem with metal detecting. And yes, you're right: metal detectors have admitted connotations. Eg.: that you might be about to "take" something. Or that you might be about to leave a hole, etc...

To which I would then say: "So what ?" In this hobby you are simply not going to please every last person on the planet. As much as I wish they would roll out red carpets for me, I've resigned myself to realize this just isn't going to happen. So if a spot has good md'ing potential (barbers and seateds, or gold rings on a beach), I'll just go at lesser traffic times when such lookie-lous are not likely to be present to gripe. Like even at night (on turf for instance). So peaceful. So serene.

The prospects that "someone might gripe" or "let me make sure I have everyone's say-so- and approval" does not stop me from detecting. Lest I eventually end up precluding myself from a lot of good spots, and end up with only boring sandboxes to hunt in .

I only hunt public spots early at daylight or late in the evenings or even after dark. I don't like to feel like every soccer mom is dialing the police to report a guy digging up the places.
I have a couple of swimming holes I get to early in the AM. By the time all the crowds and boats show up I am packing up getting ready to go. It is so peaceful to wade or snorkel before anyone is there swimming.

 

[GreenMeanie]

If I remember right RI fishing guys carry the LAWS on them applying to water rights when fishing. Just in case the COPS do show up you can tell them here is the law and I am staying put. To many times they try to get you to leave even thou you are breaking no laws so know your rights and stick to them. Don't let them convince you if you know you are right.