How to clean up a water rusted handgun?

[IAMZIM]

On Saturday, I found what I believe is a 1911 Colt 45 handgun on the lake bed I have been artifact hunting on because of the low water. I want to clean it up regardless of whether or not it is salvageable, (which I am very doubtful about) and was wondering if anyone could give me any advice on how to do it? I at first thought of giving it an apple cider vinegar bath to get all the rust off. I am also assuming that it is loaded, and hope to get it unloaded safely, especially the breach. Thanks in advance!

 

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[testing123]

Shouldn't it be turned over to the police? Don't want to be holding a possible murder weapon.

 

[Oddjob]

Shouldn't it be turned over to the police? Don't want to be holding a possible murder weapon.

Never seen a perp dump a weapon with an attempt to preserve evidence by leaving it in the holster.

Anyway, I would let it soak outside in some fresh water with a light mix of vinegar, but away from the chance that someone could get their hands on it. I doubt you will have an AD, but still make sure it is pointed at something solid enough to absorb it just in case.

Check on it about every few hours to see how it is doing. Start with attempting to drop the mag, then remove the grips, if you can rack the slide. to see if something is chambered.

Se if you can get an ID off of it then.

You can find several vids online on how to take it down. I would not count it as a total loss until you can see how much damage is done to the lower receiver.

Just one thing, I would not expect and AD but................. You should always be ready just in case and wear the proper protective gear just in case it does go off, make sure that thing is pointed at something that can take it.

Just my thoughts.

You should keep us posted if you are really going to break it down, take pictures.

 

[Indianvintage]

By placing a wooden dowel or a pencil in the end of the barrel and measuring how far it will go down (assuming it is not packed full of crud) you can tell if the chamber contains a live round. A 45 ACP cartridge is 1.25" long. The chamber begins just in front of the front part of the ejection port. If the pencil goes in all the way to this point then the chamber is empty. If it stops 1.25" short of that point then a round is in the chamber. SOak the whole gun down in something like "liquid wrench" and it might eventually get to where you can work the slide open.

It is more apt to be lost or stolen that be a firearm used in a crime.

From the picture it appears to be a 1911 "style" handgun and may or may not be a Colt brand. It is not very old, maybe 20 years at most, does not appear to have been in water for too long (maybe months or a few years). Being that it was in a holster it probably was accidentally dropped from a boat. It could have been stolen and dumped. How deep is the water at that spot when the lake is normal? Nylon holsters like that have been around for 40 +/- years and can be bought today. You can attempt to clean it up, but you should eventually tell law enforcement you found it and have them check the serial number for stolen. You can report, hey I found this and once I cleaned it up I can see a serial number on it, would you run it and see if it is stolen?. That would be the truth. If it was yours and it had been stolen, you would appreciate being notified about it being found, even years later. Maybe to whoever lost it, it had sentimental value / a family hand me down. Even in a trashed condition they might want it back.

FYI there is a national database of stolen items (managed by the FBI). Anything stolen that has a serial number (firearm, stereo, microwave oven) that had a theft report done where the owner supplied the serial number to law enforcement is entered into that database and the info stays there forever. An article reported stolen years before, thousands of miles away, can be matched up to the owner if the serial number is run by law enforcement. The search is almost instant. The caveat is that an officer has to have the item physically in front of him before entering a request into the system. You can not call in a request over the phone. Reason being is that if the article search returns a "lost/ stolen match" the officer MUST (by Federal law) seize the item immediately and contact the agency that originally listed the item in the system. The original agency also gets an automated message that an item they had entered has been checked.

I give an example; Mr Smith's Rolex watch was stolen in 1995 in Kansas. He new the serial number and made a police report. In 2014 a bunch of watches were found when a burglar was arrested in Texas. The arresting agency ran the serial numbers and many of the watches came back as 'stolen'. The Texas agency talked to the Kansas agency and they eventually contacted Mr. Smith who then got his watch back 19 years later.

 

[vpnavy]

When you are able to read the serial number - you might check to see if it was reported stolen. A good place to start is HOTGUNZ - Stolen Gun Database...

 

[Oddjob]

When you are able to read the serial number - you might check to see if it was reported stolen. A good place to start is HOTGUNZ - Stolen Gun Database...

Nice link, I did not know there was a publicly accessible site for that.

 

[cathexis]

When you are able to read the serial number - you might check to see if it was reported stolen. A good place to start is HOTGUNZ - Stolen Gun Database...

IIRC,

Most all gun parts save the receiver are easily available online and don't require an FFL.
Correct me if I'm wrong. The point is even if some parts are ruined doesn't mean
It can't be salvaged by swapping out what's broke with what ain't. The American
Gunsmithing Institute (google it) has boat loads of DVDs on this and all kinds of
Fun things to do with a MD1911. FWIW.

Andrew

 

[G.I.B.]

I believe I'd give electrolysis a shot...

 

[IAMZIM]

Shouldn't it be turned over to the police? Don't want to be holding a possible murder weapon.

This was very obviously lost off a boat, there was also fishing gear strewn in the area as well that I had to clean up. ALOT of people in Montana carry guns with them. This particular lake has bears and wolves at it OFTEN. In fact, that very day as I was looking for arrowheads there were wolf tracks and scat all along the shore. The likely hood of this being a murder weapon is honestly very, very, doubtful! I did have the thought of checking to see if it was registered however.....

 

[IAMZIM]

By placing a wooden dowel or a pencil in the end of the barrel and measuring how far it will go down (assuming it is not packed full of crud) you can tell if the chamber contains a live round. A 45 ACP cartridge is 1.25" long. The chamber begins just in front of the front part of the ejection port. If the pencil goes in all the way to this point then the chamber is empty. If it stops 1.25" short of that point then a round is in the chamber. SOak the whole gun down in something like "liquid wrench" and it might eventually get to where you can work the slide open.

It is more apt to be lost or stolen that be a firearm used in a crime.

From the picture it appears to be a 1911 "style" handgun and may or may not be a Colt brand. It is not very old, maybe 20 years at most, does not appear to have been in water for too long (maybe months or a few years). Being that it was in a holster it probably was accidentally dropped from a boat. It could have been stolen and dumped. How deep is the water at that spot when the lake is normal? Nylon holsters like that have been around for 40 +/- years and can be bought today. You can attempt to clean it up, but you should eventually tell law enforcement you found it and have them check the serial number for stolen. You can report, hey I found this and once I cleaned it up I can see a serial number on it, would you run it and see if it is stolen?. That would be the truth. If it was yours and it had been stolen, you would appreciate being notified about it being found, even years later. Maybe to whoever lost it, it had sentimental value / a family hand me down. Even in a trashed condition they might want it back.

FYI there is a national database of stolen items (managed by the FBI). Anything stolen that has a serial number (firearm, stereo, microwave oven) that had a theft report done where the owner supplied the serial number to law enforcement is entered into that database and the info stays there forever. An article reported stolen years before, thousands of miles away, can be matched up to the owner if the serial number is run by law enforcement. The search is almost instant. The caveat is that an officer has to have the item physically in front of him before entering a request into the system. You can not call in a request over the phone. Reason being is that if the article search returns a "lost/ stolen match" the officer MUST (by Federal law) seize the item immediately and contact the agency that originally listed the item in the system. The original agency also gets an automated message that an item they had entered has been checked.

I give an example; Mr Smith's Rolex watch was stolen in 1995 in Kansas. He new the serial number and made a police report. In 2014 a bunch of watches were found when a burglar was arrested in Texas. The arresting agency ran the serial numbers and many of the watches came back as 'stolen'. The Texas agency talked to the Kansas agency and they eventually contacted Mr. Smith who then got his watch back 19 years later.

Thanks to you and Oddjob! I was thinking this way as well, that whoever lost it may want it back! I will see what I can do about cleaning it up and thanks again for the advice guys! I'm pretty sure I should be able to get the serial number of it, as I can already see half of it. Once I do that, ill get it checked out and maybe I can contact the owner, if it isn't stolen! I'll definitely take some pics as I do it and hopefully get it cleaned up nice!

 

[IAMZIM]

When you are able to read the serial number - you might check to see if it was reported stolen. A good place to start is HOTGUNZ - Stolen Gun Database...

Thanks for the link! I will definitely check it out, and i'll keep you guys posted!

 

[nsdq]

Almost got my hopes up in that being mine that was stolen in 2004

 

[Indianvintage]

I agree with you. When I first read your post, my first thought was 'accidentally dropped from a boat', but I was assuming it was where water had been deep enough for boats. Glad you clarified that. I'd start with gun cleaning chemicals/oils like bore cleaner. Any ammo in the magazine is no danger to you. Soaking ammo will not make it go off, just the opposite effect. Short of cooking it or beating on it, you wont have an accidental discharge... but never point the muzzle at anything you do not want to destroy. First order of business is determine if chamber is loaded. Just going by the picture, hammer seems to be down. Magazine seems to be in the grip. Assume it to be fully loaded. Modern guns (which that appears to be) are fairly safe until you pull the trigger, or drop a cocked hammer while holding the trigger down. Don't fiddle with the hammer or trigger until you know the chamber is empty. Serial number will be on the trigger group or under the grips. Again (by the pic) it appears to be a "1911" style action. That means to fire it the hammer has to be cocked and the safety has to be off. That style of action is not a double action trigger where a long trigger pull pulls the hammer to the rear and then drops it to fire.

I don't mean to be rude or anything but.... do you know the manual of arms for 1911 style guns? "Manual of arms" means "how to operate" .

Also....In your state I don't think there is any law that you have to report a 'found" firearm. I was just thinking that a serial number check might get it back to the owner. If I had a lost gun returned to me that was all rusted up and it had no sentimental value (like a gift from an ancestor) I'd tell the finder thanks but he could keep it, but if it had sentimental value to me I'd give him a finders fee and put the old rusted up hunk away in a box.

 

[rick67]

I would stick with the vinegar over electrolysis. It'll take longer but will stay more intact.

 

[IAMZIM]

I agree with you. When I first read your post, my first thought was 'accidentally dropped from a boat', but I was assuming it was where water had been deep enough for boats. Glad you clarified that. I'd start with gun cleaning chemicals/oils like bore cleaner. Any ammo in the magazine is no danger to you. Soaking ammo will not make it go off, just the opposite effect. Short of cooking it or beating on it, you wont have an accidental discharge... but never point the muzzle at anything you do not want to destroy. First order of business is determine if chamber is loaded. Just going by the picture, hammer seems to be down. Magazine seems to be in the grip. Assume it to be fully loaded. Modern guns (which that appears to be) are fairly safe until you pull the trigger, or drop a cocked hammer while holding the trigger down. Don't fiddle with the hammer or trigger until you know the chamber is empty. Serial number will be on the trigger group or under the grips. Again (by the pic) it appears to be a "1911" style action. That means to fire it the hammer has to be cocked and the safety has to be off. That style of action is not a double action trigger where a long trigger pull pulls the hammer to the rear and then drops it to fire.

I don't mean to be rude or anything but.... do you know the manual of arms for 1911 style guns? "Manual of arms" means "how to operate" .

Also....In your state I don't think there is any law that you have to report a 'found" firearm. I was just thinking that a serial number check might get it back to the owner. If I had a lost gun returned to me that was all rusted up and it had no sentimental value (like a gift from an ancestor) I'd tell the finder thanks but he could keep it, but if it had sentimental value to me I'd give him a finders fee and put the old rusted up hunk away in a box.

I don't think that question is rude at all. I am more of a rifle guy, I know all the "in's and out's" of Remington 7mm's and how to take them apart, as well as many different types of 30.06's, (Winchester, Remington, Ruger, Springfield, etc.) Also Browning 270's and 30.06. I am not an expert, but, I do know how to shoot and clean and take guns apart, and have been around them all my life. I have shot hand guns, but not one of these, nor have I ever taken one apart, but I have taken apart alot of other guns, and feel fairly confident on what to do! Plus, I read, ALOT! If I get hung up on something I can't figure out, I will definitely find out how to fix it or get help in doing so.... Like I said as well, I would like to see if I can find out the owner to see if he would want it back, so I agree with you entirely. =) Do you know if a product called "Kroil" would be good for it? OH! Also, I just realized it may have seemed like I thought it was actually "made" in 1911, I didn't mean to lead anyone to think that is what I thought, I should have said: 1911 "style" like you said lol! I forget sometimes that people can't read my mind, and I need to be careful about how I explain things!

 

[IAMZIM]

Almost got my hopes up in that being mine that was stolen in 2004

If it is, I'll definitely return it to you!

 

[Indianvintage]

" I am not an expert, but, I do know how to shoot and clean and take guns apart, and have been around them all my life."

Then you are good to go and will be safe. Me, I'm 56 and my dad started me on gun safety and shooting when I was five. As you might have guessed, I'm in law enforcement (30 years).
What I am brand new at is METAL DETECTING!

Kroil, PB Blaster, penetrating oil, etc... I'm very familiar with, electrolysis and vinegar, not so much so I would personally start with what I personally know which is the penetrating oils.
Any question I can help with I'd be glad to.
Try to get the grips off if you can to spare them all the chemicals, but the screws might be rusted up. Have fun!

PS If it is a modern 1911 style gun, the original value is from $500 to $1000+.

 

[nsdq]

If it said LLama Max1A L/F on the slide which i am it does not it diff than the one mine had, the s/n would be on the left above the trigger on lower receiver ending in XXXXXXXXXXXX-98

If it is, I'll definitely return it to you!

 

[cudamark]

Try some Evaporust. Works great on tools and auto parts/

 

[Xraywolf]

I personally would not waste any time trying to salvage/spiff it up, I'd cut through the chase and turn it in to LE.

Really no sense speculating how low the odds are of it being used in a crime and just an innocent drop.