Breaking All The Excal Rules

[bigscoop]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aLImLi5rf4&feature=youtu.be

 

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[bigscoop]

Bigscoop I hunt in silent mode also volume all the way up disc 1 sensitivity 7 I have been hunting this way for several years now I have done very well
I hunt the same way when I go to the beach also this is a very good way to hunt

Last Sunday I was on a "freshwater" beach here in Indiana. I started my hunt with the large coil in PP mode because I suspected the beach had already been heavily hunted and that it would be pretty clean. After about 30 minutes I discovered that the beach was littered with tiny iron targets, this constant interference causing me all sorts of issues like those I've already referenced, so, I went back to the vehicle and put on the small coil, 8", and pretty much as you outlined I set the machine up for silent mode, 1 disc, volume cranked, with about 3/4 sensitivity and then I hit the "exact same area of the beach again." Right away I started hitting good targets, some of them pretty deep, deeper then a lot of that tiny shallow and surface iron. So I'm not talking from lack of tested and proven first hand experience. It's just that there are proven and certain limits of the technology being employed, the more metallic debris or mineralization you have in and around the search field the less efficient that search field becomes because it grows more unstable, the amount of constant returns even slowing and confusing the processor. Been that way ever since search coils started sweeping the landscapes. I just had this same experience in an old park while land hunting as well, left there with a few silver coins, an old V nickel, and one silver ring. No doubt in my mind that if I had hunted that park in pp with the threshold and larger coil I likely would have come home empty handed.

 

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[OBN]

Something for the discussion, the coil foot print never changes. When you turn the machine on the send signal is full blast, there is nothing you can do to change it... the full received signal runs back to the board then it is filtered thru all of your diff settings then on to your ears as audio. The more you filter that return signal the less depth.

So when you turn the sensitivity up the size of the coil foot print is not getting bigger your just allowing more of that return signal thru that is all ready there.

 

[bigscoop]

Something for the discussion, the coil foot print never changes. When you turn the machine on the send signal is full blast, there is nothing you can do to change it... the full received signal runs back to the board then it is filtered thru all of your diff settings then on to your ears as audio. The more you filter that return signal the less depth.

So when you turn the sensitivity up the size of the coil foot print is not getting bigger your just allowing more of that return signal thru that is all ready there.

Allow me to correct my statement.....as the sensitivity is turned up "more returns from the surrounding environment" are allowed to reach the processor. So in essence, the field of generated returns over, under, and around the coil grows larger, often too large/too much. And with everything remaining equal, this situation/condition only being magnified as coil size (footprint) is increased. How am I doing.....

 

[OBN]

I look back on many of my old post and say.. That's not right...Two years ago I was thinking turn the sensitivity up and the field gets bigger.. but after building an amplifier for it I realized I had it all wrong. So we learn as we go, sharing ideas and failures, then coming back better.

 

[bigscoop]

I look back on many of my old post and say.. That's not right...Two years ago I was thinking turn the sensitivity up and the field gets bigger.. but after building an amplifier for it I realized I had it all wrong. So we learn as we go, sharing ideas and failures, then coming back better.

So understanding what it is that I'm attempting to explain in this thread, do you see any value in it? I know you hunt in reverse but what are your thoughts on larger coils and trashy/mineralized environments? I can say with certainty that there are many times when I can get better sensitivity and stability out of a smaller coil, and quite often more efficient depth, then I can the larger one for many of the reasons described. What are your thoughts?

 

[tlane38003]

Great videos big scoop thanks

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G850A using Tapatalk

 

[bigscoop]

Since moving back to Indiana I'm having to deal with a lot of contaminated ground & beach, large and tiny bits of iron building up over the years, rare to find 4sq feet of ground that isn't contaminated, as a result the threshold is in constant disruption and constantly resetting. However, I'm discovering that when I put the machine in disc mode and set the machine to silent mode with the volume cranked up that it can handle the environment much better, sensitivity just having to be adjusted per each hunt. And here's what's really strange....on those really deep/faint targets in disc, when I switch to PP (without a threshold) I can't get a return on many of them. So for whatever technical reason, it's working out pretty well for me as long as I use the smaller coils. The results have been so good, in fact, I'm sold on it in infested areas. So I think folks will discover that in really infested areas that the constant changing and resetting of the threshold can actually serve to mask some of those deeper/fainter returns, put the machine in silent mode and disc mode and a lot of these issues will go away for you. Personally, I'm recovering more deeper and fainter targets then ever before, especially with the smaller coils.

 

[tlane38003]

Since moving back to Indiana I'm having to deal with a lot of contaminated ground & beach, large and tiny bits of iron building up over the years, rare to find 4sq feet of ground that isn't contaminated, as a result the threshold is in constant disruption and constantly resetting. However, I'm discovering that when I put the machine in disc mode and set the machine to silent mode with the volume cranked up that it can handle the environment much better, sensitivity just having to be adjusted per each hunt. And here's what's really strange....on those really deep/faint targets in disc, when I switch to PP (without a threshold) I can't get a return on many of them. So for whatever technical reason, it's working out pretty well for me as long as I use the smaller coils. The results have been so good, in fact, I'm sold on it in infested areas. So I think folks will discover that in really infested areas that the constant changing and resetting of the threshold can actually serve to mask some of those deeper/fainter returns, put the machine in silent mode and disc mode and a lot of these issues will go away for you. Personally, I'm recovering more deeper and fainter targets then ever before, especially with the smaller coils.

Yep I seem to be getting the same result just having alot of fun learning a new machine love the tones in disc mode

Sent from my LG-V410 using Tapatalk

 

[OBN]

Must be something to your setting for they are just like the one's published in 2009 by CJC that were used by a hunter near you, Goldinwater "High Power System" settings in the book "Advanced Field Methods for the Minelab Excalibur" He must have had the same issues as you. For me, I'm use Treasure hunters, reverse discrimination hunting. but stock coils only. I tried Goldinwaters settings when they came out but found PP to be what worked best for me at the locations I hunt.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

I have yet to hunt any beach that reverse descrimination didnt work for me and give me more targets as well as deeper targets.

 

[bigscoop]

I have yet to hunt any beach that reverse descrimination didnt work for me and give me more targets as well as deeper targets.

TH, I know you know your stuff, but....when using that larger coil you're missing some targets, just the nature of the bigger beast. Take a gold ring, place it next to an iron nail, swing your coil over it in your usual setup adjusting the distance between the ring and nail as you continue to sweep. When these two items are close together you'll get either a PP tone or a threshold break, doesn't really matter which. Now place the machine in Disc and sweep again just as you would in the field, when the targets are closer together you'll get a null. In the filed you're going to pass this target up.

Now find and Excal with the smaller coil and repeat this same process, take note how much closer together the two items can be when you start actually getting a tone, or a repeatable burp. The smaller the coil the closer together the two items can be, the larger the coil the further apart they must be. It's all about target separation, smaller coils simply allow you better target separation. This is why I will never again have a hardwired coil, especially a larger hardwired coil. Not an issue on really clean beaches, a huge issue when hunting over contaminated or highly mineralized beaches.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Scoop, I have found gold targets less than a gram in size using 15 inch coils, found gold rings in same scoop with iron nails because it showed me target with null.

Smallest ring I found was .04 gram burried over 10 inches deep and found with 15" coil.. That is less than a half a gram....

I can place an iron nail inside a gold ring and sweep ring in descrimination mode it nulls one direction and gives me a tone when it is rescanned from different direction, this is why you always rescan nulls from a different direction. Works the same with ring and nail placed inches apart. I have been hunting this way for years, 100% confident in the process and know many others using same process.

Sent from my P008 using Tapatalk

 

[bigscoop]

Here's a bit more info you. Folks have asked me why they couldn't just use a smaller coil in reverse pp mode and achieve the same results? Well, in theory, yes you can, but in actual practice, not always, and here's why. When running in PP with the threshold active you're allowing more returns to be received so things can get really busy in the headphones. When hunting in disc mode and silent mode and with a good set of headphones many of the returns can be quite quick and faint, just whispers if you will. When things are really busy in the headphones these quick/faint whisper can be too easily masked be all of the other activity in those headphones.

 

[cudamark]

I too have a selection of coils I use with the Excal. I have two with interchangeable coils ( a blue and a 2) and a stock blue with the stock 10". The interchangeable ones have the stock 8", WOT 15" , and NEL Attack 15" coils to choose from, and also have the pin point mod and improved headphones. Regardless of which combo I use, where I use it, and setting used, I get more depth with the bigger coils. As with all detectors, the smaller the coil, the easier it is to get target separation in trashy areas. I just haven't been in an area where using a smaller coil gives me better depth. Even in the trashy areas where I've hunted, if I get a nail next to a good target, I still get a slight non-ferrous blip along with the null. Not quite as pronounced as a FBS machine, but, it still gives you a slight chirp. Now if you're swinging the coil too fast, yeah, you're going to miss it, but, when you hit a trashy area(especially iron infested), you have to slow way down so you don't miss those targets. This applies to highly mineralized ground too. When I get in some nasty black sand, depth can be severely affected, but that applies to all the coils I've used. You just slow down to a snail's pace and work it. The small coil just allows me to move a bit faster and get a better signal on a partially masked signal in trashy ground. It doesn't give me any better depth though.....quite the contrary.

 

[bigscoop]

Scoop, I have found gold targets less than a gram in size using 15 inch coils, found gold rings in same scoop with iron nails because it showed me target with null.

Smallest ring I found was .04 gram burried over 10 inches deep and found with 15" coil.. That is less than a half a gram....

I can place an iron nail inside a gold ring and sweep ring in descrimination mode it nulls one direction and gives me a tone when it is rescanned from different direction, this is why you always rescan nulls from a different direction. Works the same with ring and nail placed inches apart. I have been hunting this way for years, 100% confident in the process and know many others using same process.

Sent from my P008 using Tapatalk

I once hunted this same way all the time, use to support this same theory and practice just as you are now. However, it is only by way of circumstances and necessity that I have come to realize the flaws in my prior position on the subject and I simply can't argue with the results after having applied them for a while. I'd probably hate to know just how many targets I was missing when I was swinging that larger coil all the time. And I can't tell you the number of times where I've replaced that larger coil with a smaller one and experienced instant recovery improvements. All I can suggest is that you take the time to experiment with it before you pass judgment. You may find no advantages at all, but then again.....

 

[bigscoop]

I too have a selection of coils I use with the Excal. I have two with interchangeable coils ( a blue and a 2) and a stock blue with the stock 10". The interchangeable ones have the stock 8", WOT 15" , and NEL Attack 15" coils to choose from, and also have the pin point mod and improved headphones. Regardless of which combo I use, where I use it, and setting used, I get more depth with the bigger coils. As with all detectors, the smaller the coil, the easier it is to get target separation in trashy areas. I just haven't been in an area where using a smaller coil gives me better depth. Even in the trashy areas where I've hunted, if I get a nail next to a good target, I still get a slight non-ferrous blip along with the null. Not quite as pronounced as a FBS machine, but, it still gives you a slight chirp. Now if you're swinging the coil too fast, yeah, you're going to miss it, but, when you hit a trashy area(especially iron infested), you have to slow way down so you don't miss those targets. This applies to highly mineralized ground too. When I get in some nasty black sand, depth can be severely affected, but that applies to all the coils I've used. You just slow down to a snail's pace and work it. The small coil just allows me to move a bit faster and get a better signal on a partially masked signal in trashy ground. It doesn't give me any better depth though.....quite the contrary.

Here's something for to try the next chance you get and this will work with a variety of machines, the Excal being one of them. Put on your smaller coil, say the 8". Now find/create one of those really faint targets in either disc or pp mode. Now keep backing the target away until you can no longer get a return. Once you have achieved this, now whip the coil swiftly back and forth over the target in really short passes......you should start getting a return. So slow isn't always better, and in many cases, quite the opposite is true. Quite often a swifter sweep will generate stronger returns because you are manually creating more energy in the sends.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

I once hunted this same way all the time, use to support this same theory and practice just as you are now. However, it is only by way of circumstances and necessity that I have come to realize the flaws in my prior position on the subject and I simply can't argue with the results after having applied them for a while. I'd probably hate to know just how many targets I was missing when I was swinging that larger coil all the time. And I can't tell you the number of times where I've replaced that larger coil with a smaller one and experienced instant recovery improvements. All I can suggest is that you take the time to experiment with it before you pass judgment. You may find no advantages at all, but then again.....

I am quite confident I am not missing targets, in fact I am getting more targets using this method. I am recovering the back of earrrings which are extremely small targets, I recover targets over 18 inches, many over 20 inches.

 

[bigscoop]

I am quite confident I am not missing targets, in fact I am getting more targets using this method. I am recovering the back of earrrings which are extremely small targets, I recover targets over 18 inches, many over 20 inches.

I was too. I'm just consistently recovering more good targets now by being able to apply both techniques when required.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

To each his own, I know I get great coverage and depth using large coils and hunting reverse discrimination. I know other hunters using same process with great results as well.

Sent from my P008 using Tapatalk

 

[cudamark]

Here's something for to try the next chance you get and this will work with a variety of machines, the Excal being one of them. Put on your smaller coil, say the 8". Now find/create one of those really faint targets in either disc or pp mode. Now keep backing the target away until you can no longer get a return. Once you have achieved this, now whip the coil swiftly back and forth over the target in really short passes......you should start getting a return. So slow isn't always better, and in many cases, quite the opposite is true. Quite often a swifter sweep will generate stronger returns because you are manually creating more energy in the sends.

Yes, but, nobody hunts that way. In a trash free area, I've used that method to verify a target was good enough to dig, but, in a trashy area, that just won't work. too much info to process and it will just null on you.