Man fined for using metal hoe on beach. Associated Press

[teklord]

An Alabama youth minister was fined $25 for using a metal garden hoe to dig in the sand with his 7-year old son while on spring break in Panama City Beach Florida. The officer told them they could not use metal tools on the beach. The law was adopted after a rowdy 2015 spring break and was designed to protect against sexual assaults.

Bring a plastic scoop?

Tek

 

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[Tom_in_CA]

So I suppose this: We all assume ahead of time that sand castle building is illegal. Till told otherwise. Ie.: till we have permission. Eh?

 

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[Treasure_Hunter]

The connection between sexual activity and digging holes in the sand is still not very clear to me.

People used the deep holes to conceal having sex.

 

[Xraywolf]

People used the deep holes to conceal having sex.

Ok I'll remember that next time I run into an in heat, panting nympho on the beach - Just no metal tools !

 

[Terry Soloman]

Why are we still debating this?

Obviously we are NEVER going to agree. If you believe what happened was the Cop On The Beat's fault - God Bless You! If you believe the Dad got mouthy and got what he deserved, then the story was picked up by a writer who slanted his story because he has a problem with authority, the law, and the police, then you are correct. End of thread and debate,

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Why are we still debating this? ....

ahhh, you're no fun. haha, seriously now, you're right: subject beat to death.

 

[ScubaDetector]

Why are we still debating this?

Obviously we are NEVER going to agree. If you believe what happened was the Cop On The Beat's fault - God Bless You! If you believe the Dad got mouthy and got what he deserved, then the story was picked up by a writer who slanted his story because he has a problem with authority, the law, and the police, then you are correct. End of thread and debate,

Terry, the debate is you calling folks idiots for questioning supposed authority. You think anyone that questions a cop is an idiot. You believe like some officers do. They have a gun and a badge and their word is law. NOT. You have no idea if he lipped off. You attack people on here for questioning what an officer says. You were not there. You have no right to judge the priest or others who you do not agree with because they don't give in to bullies with badges. You do have the right to your opinion. What you do not have the right to be is judgemental and abusive.

We all know what you think of my run ins with law officers. That is ok with me. You have the absolute right to voice your opinion. But without facts that all it is, YOUR opinion. I don't feel you calling folks idiots is appropriate or warranted in any situation.

 

[Deft Tones]

It's good practice to have non-judging mind.

 

[Terry Soloman]

Terry, the debate is you calling folks idiots for questioning supposed authority. You think anyone that questions a cop is an idiot. You believe like some officers do. They have a gun and a badge and their word is law. NOT. You have no idea if he lipped off. You attack people on here for questioning what an officer says. You were not there. You have no right to judge the priest or others who you do not agree with because they don't give in to bullies with badges. You do have the right to your opinion. What you do not have the right to be is judgemental and abusive.

We all know what you think of my run ins with law officers. That is ok with me. You have the absolute right to voice your opinion. But without facts that all it is, YOUR opinion. I don't feel you calling folks idiots is appropriate or warranted in any situation.

I love you man. Can't we all just get along?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Scuba, the cop wasn't necessarily out-of-line (there was a law, it turns out, against, gasp "holes" and/or gasp, metal tools). Nor was the minister necessarily out of line (I agree that asking "what law am I breaking?" is not "out of line").

Hence it's possible that NEITHER SIDE was out of line or combative. A ticket can be given pleasantly with a smile on both sides. I've gotten speeding tickets EVEN THOUGH I WAS QUITE NICE when receiving it. So the mere fact of a "ticket" does not mean the recipient was "combative".

I can envision that this "repeated requests" (to fill in the hole) was no different than the recipients "repeated requests" to have his question of "what law am I breaking" un-answered.

Could the minister have been combative ? CERTAINLY . Could the cop have seemed arbitrary and capricious (for a sand castle for pete's sake?) CERTAINLY. Could neither of them been combative ? CERTAINLY.

 

[Xraywolf]

Why are we still debating this?

Mostly because you have 15 posts in this thread and don't seem to want it to die down.

 

[ScubaDetector]

Scuba, the cop wasn't necessarily out-of-line (there was a law, it turns out, against, gasp "holes" and/or gasp, metal tools). Nor was the minister necessarily out of line (I agree that asking "what law am I breaking?" is not "out of line").

Hence it's possible that NEITHER SIDE was out of line or combative. A ticket can be given pleasantly with a smile on both sides. I've gotten speeding tickets EVEN THOUGH I WAS QUITE NICE when receiving it. So the mere fact of a "ticket" does not mean the recipient was "combative".

I can envision that this "repeated requests" (to fill in the hole) was no different than the recipients "repeated requests" to have his question of "what law am I breaking" un-answered.

Could the minister have been combative ? CERTAINLY . Could the cop have seemed arbitrary and capricious (for a sand castle for pete's sake?) CERTAINLY. Could neither of them been combative ? CERTAINLY.

Absolutely agree Tom. My point is just about armchair lawyers. People that form opinions and call names because of what they read or hear and have no idea of the facts. There was a law, it was broken by the LETTER OF IT. NOT by what it was written for. Happens all the time. Priest refused to comply, ticket given.

Cops have DISCRETION. They see a speeder and pull them over. Guy is rushing his sick child to hospital. Cop can help, cop can be prick and slowly give ticket and chastise him or cop can give police escort. Plenty of different avenues of ways to enforce the LAW.

Just because there is a BROAD law that says something is illegal, doesn't mean a cop has to enforce it in the context the situation is in. We learn that over and over. Was the cop out of line in this situation? Sounds like it, BUT I wasn't there. So I will not judge cop or priest.

Anyway. I was reading this thread and came across this post:

Tom, where does it say he didn't? Only an idiot asks a Cop to cite the law instead of doing as their told. You take it up with the JUDGE, who actually has the POWER to let you slide, or take your money. RESPECT the police, and they USUALLY cut you slack! I would LOVE to see the police reports on this!

And it struck a nerve. Just because a person asks a cop to prove there is a law, does not mean he is an idiot. There are lots of ways to talk to a police officer. Polite and willing to learn all the way to I am above your laws, you can't touch me. Have I done what cops have told me? No. BUT I have been polite and tried to educate some who have absolutely NO IDEA what they are talking about. Some are very friendly and want to learn. Others are bullies with badges. HOWEVER, nobody is an idiot for asking questions or sticking up for themselves in the right way.

Terry wants everyone to RESPECT the police. Sure, if they respect me. If they don't earn my respect they won't get it back. Badge and gun make absolutely NO difference to me. If they do to you, that is fine. I will not judge what others do in the situations they are in. People want to turn tail and run when confronted, go for it.

And Terry would LOVE to see the police report? Why?? It will be a one sided make the cop look good report PERIOD. I know of absolutely no police officer that would write up a report that would make them look like they had no discretion or do anything even remotely against policy.

The news STINKS. They do their best to make someone look like a fool. Do you remember when I took a WW1 bomb to the police department here.

All-clear from bomb squad after WWI bomb was found by diver & taken to Port Huron police department - WXYZ.com

I told the news the truth. They knew I found one and had already had it examined. So did the cops. They knew I was just wanting paperwork to squash any fears and the state police bomb squad didn't give it to me the first time. They didn't believe me. So the cops had the fire department close off the streets. Cops and fire trucks and helicopters all over the place.

Does the news tell the truth?? NO. they tried to make me look like an IDIOT for driving WW1 bombs around the city. It worked. My older brother decided I was an idiot. Probably a lot of people did. However, I am not stupid or that careless. BUT they refused to publish my side of the story because if they did, it wouldn't have been news.

Anyway. Like any law. DISCRETION is needed by officers to decide if a person warrants a ticket or not. But nobody is an idiot for politely arguing their case.

 

[Terry Soloman]

Wow.

 

[ScubaDetector]

One more thing. As most know by now I have had dealings with the police many many times. In 99% of the times I have been in full dive gear with a detector. What you don't know is I ALWAYS carry two dive knives. Both are the same Tekna knife and look like this:

Tekna Dive Dagger in Excellent Condition | eBay

In Michigan a double edged knife is totally illegal. Every time I talk to the police I tell them I have two knives on me. Not once have they questioned them. Not once have they taken them away. That means they know I pose no threat to them. I am not combative.

But in getting back to the knives. Yes as knives they are illegal. PERIOD. If I was walking down the street with one in a sheath or my hand I would probably be cuffed and stuffed. However, as diver they are DIVE TOOLS. They are for my protection in case of emergencies like getting tangled in fishing line. So they are legal as dive tools and are not considered an illegal knife.

 

[cudamark]

My main problem with this story is the request to fill a legally dug hole to get out of receiving a citation for a different offense. The police are supposed to be the professionals here. They should be trained in how to show act and interact with us ignorant peons. By not using some discretion in the first place and by coercing someone to do something to avoid a ticket just doesn't seem professional to me.

 

[Oddjob]

Man I can not wait for this Body cam footage to come out; clearly is this person was so innocent acting and the cops where so evil and unprofessional then this would have spread like wild fire.

Anyone up for a FIOA.

 

[Xraywolf]

Id also like to see what this "metal hoe" looks like [no puns, please].
Don't think a hoe would be an ideal tool for moving sand, I was thinking it was more like a hand held gardening scoop/spade.

 

[lookindown]

Id also like to see what this "metal hoe" looks like [no puns, please].
Don't think a hoe would be an ideal tool for moving sand, I was thinking it was more like a hand held gardening scoop/spade.

One article said it was a toy metal hoe and the hole was one foot deep....hole was legal by the law but he was told to fill it in...I don't know why.

 

[cudamark]

That to me is the curious part. If the hole was legal, why make him fill it in? Just to test your power to do so?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

That to me is the curious part. If the hole was legal, why make him fill it in? Just to test your power to do so?

Huh ?? Say it isn't so !! Oddity and someone "not jumping" to do "everything right" ? Say it isn't so !

Glad someone here sees that this was a little strange from the git-go (sand castles for pete's sake). And far be it for ANYONE to question this. And far be it for EVER a cop to do an odd-ball non-logical thing. I say this with utmost respect. As I say this with full-knowledge that lip-service (even for odd-ball decisions or enforcements) is the best reaction. But glad someone is pointing out that this was indeed odd at both ends . Rather than *only* casting the aspursions strictly on minister's side of this equation.

 

[bigscoop]

Let's face it, society and culture are changing, and not for the better. I mean, how did this even make the news, and why? Our world is becoming a very crazy and often unpredictable place, and yet to the flip side, and because of this, other parts of it are becoming all-too predictable.