What are they

[Tenderfoot]

Hunting the waterline at Manasota Beach in Florida. I found a bunch of these last year and now again this year. Look like copper but not soft. Added quarter for scale. Any idea what they are?

 

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[bowwinkles]

fired cartridge bullets.

 

[Oddjob]

Its a fired soft point bullet.

 

[Tenderfoot]

No rifling on the outside

 

[bowwinkles]

smooth bore

 

[Oddjob]

No rifling on the outside

Thats correct, also very thin and missing the lead core as well. Erosion does this to soft metals, then if it was in an area with water that always moves, shifting ground and highly mineralized it can happen much faster than digging through an range berm.

Now considering that this one was fired and mushroomed out that would only assist in further break down.

 

[MrMikeJackie]

I disagree on the bullet jacket. Look at it closely, it's concave on the wrong side of the "mushroom". No even expansion or petals. Not a bullet fragment in my opinion.

 

[Oddjob]

I disagree on the bullet jacket. Look at it closely, it's concave on the wrong side of the "mushroom". No even expansion or petals. .

Thats because it was a non-bonded round and the tapered end is the end that was inside the cartridge. The expanded end is the impact side, this having a true hollow casing would make it a Non-Bonded Dum Dum round, I am sure you can still purchase these but I have not seen any for a while. Popular with the B59 para trooper version; I am sure our own Defense forces used them as well, but they have not been in Defense service since 82 among NATO member states.

Performance on these where never all that good, they of course had great penetration, and if or when there was over penetration secondary causalities where not critically injured. Taking one out of a wounded person, well that was another story alone, sure the VA has many service connected vets who can testify to that, basically more often than not pieces where over looked, starting that typical medical procedure of the performing med with inspecting what they pulled out to see if it is all intact.

Replaced with much better stuff over time and now the closest thing to the Non-Bonded Dum Dum would be the Frangible Round, no over penetration at all, performance is still low but well enough at the ranges it was designed for and an even bigger pain in the butt to get all the pieces out.

And on a personal note the new an improved FRs, they are the worst thing to train with in the shoot house, when that round hits the wall as you clearing it just fragments. After a week on the ranch you have pulled enough fragments out of your legs to make a new case of rounds, and naturally your upper body is covered in Sim Px from the force of force using Simunitions. Its an MRI Party afterwards just to make sure you got everything out because there are still some idiots out there who will ignore their pox.

At least this is what I think it is, I am not a 1930s-1970 munitions expert, not an expert at anything, but I have seen a great deal of it.

 

[marion moore]

Looks like a nozzle with a flange on the entering end must have stopped up and blew off, thanks for posting, marion7 :/

 

[bowwinkles]

I disagree on the bullet jacket. Look at it closely, it's concave on the wrong side of the "mushroom". No even expansion or petals. Not a bullet fragment in my opinion.

The correct name for these type of rounds was "boat tail" which explains the taper.

 

[MrMikeJackie]

The correct name for these type of rounds was "boat tail" which explains the taper.

I have never seen nor heard of a jacketed boat tail bullet that was open at the base. And the taper is way too long.

 

[MrMikeJackie]

I believe they have to do with welding. Take a look.

See the preset petal grooves in pic 1.
Were they found anywhere near a ship building location or someplace where they would weld?

 

[Oddjob]

I believe they have to do with welding. Take a look.
View attachment 1440077 View attachment 1440078
See the preset petal grooves in pic 1.
Were they found anywhere near a ship building location or someplace where they would weld?

Mig welder tips do not have holes that size.

 

[bowwinkles]

https://huntforever.org/2012/11/14/flat-base-or-boattail/

 

[MrMikeJackie]

https://huntforever.org/2012/11/14/flat-base-or-boattail/

I am very familiar with boat tail bullets as I've been hand loading for a long time. The taper on that fragment is wayyyyy too long to be a boat tail jacket.

 

[MrMikeJackie]

The lack of rifling, long taper, and open base does not suggest a bullet jacket in my opinion.

 

[Tenderfoot]

The beach is just a short distance from Venice airport which used to be a military base.

 

[The Urban Prospector]

Fired bullets.