Not trying to raise a srink, but.....

[bigscoop]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but when we consider the various shapes, sizes, densities, depth and signal strength, alloy mixes and the varying levels of those alloy mixes, aren't manufacturers stretching the realities as to the real-world limits of the new machines they're promoting?


“More sensitive to gold.” Really? I mean it isn't even possible for a machine to evaluate and determine the individual alloy compositions in a single piece of gold jewelry, this alloy mixture, along with the item's density/mass determining that item's conductivity. If we mix a 22k gold ring with 43% copper then the conductivity of that original 22k ring changes dramatically, mix that same 22k ring with 60% sterling silver then that ring's conductivity changes yet again, that ring's ever changing size and shape and mass and depth also having effect, and so on and so on.


Per example, we recently ran a dozen gold rings of various alloy mixes, shapes, sizes, etc., under the coil of an AT Pro and these rings returned solid VDI readings anywhere from 39 to 81, the readings on these same rings changing as the distance between the target and the coil increased and the signal strength diminished. Now place these same rings at depths in the various levels and types of contaminated soil and place trust in the machine's discrimination features and that machine's processor to determine which of these very faint returns is a potential target of value? The only thing that can result from this is the loss of potential targets of value. “Period!”


Bottom line, rely on discrimination less and investigate and dig more targets , especially on those deeper fainter returns. There isn't a machine out there that can do everything with the accuracy and reliability that some of these manufacturer's are touting, especially when it comes to the extremely wide ranging jewelry items that are made with these various degrees of gold and other alloy compositions. “More sensitive to gold?” How's that work, exactly?


Forgive me if I seem harsh and jaded, but honesty, I've grown tired of all the routine hype and unfounded claims that seem to proceed every new machine heading to market. Now don't get me wrong, I'd be the first in line to purchase a machine that can “accurately sort out” all of the above at depths, and please don't reply with that “signal boost technology” stuff as this only comes after the fact as this boosting of the return cannot add more accurate data in that boosted return. So if I'm wrong in any of this please feel free to explain it to me as I am completely open to learning more about anything I am currently misunderstanding. But until then I'll stick with the same time-tested and user proven machine that I'm currently using.

 

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[bigscoop]

So far. 14" seems to be about the limit for a dime or small ring. This is my local salt water beaches that have some black sand in them. I haven't hit any fresh water ones yet, so, not certain on those. This is running the recovery speed at a lower setting than the preset.....usually 3 or 4 instead of 6. At those slower speeds, it's still lots faster than all the other machines I've used except the Deus, and the MultiCruzer, which I haven't tried yet. I have 8, 10, and 15" coils for my Excals, and I've never gotten that kind of 16"+ depth you mention on the 8 or 10" ones, only the 15 inchers. Maybe it's our conditions, maybe you have a hotter machine, maybe better ears than me! Maybe I'll try using the minimum recovery speed on the Nox and see what I can squeeze out of it. I've found the sensitivity setting affects depth more than the speed setting, but, it does affect it somewhat depending on swing speed. That shouldn't be much of a factor in the water, but, I hunt more in the wet and dry sand than the surf these days.

I'm sure you already know this but many don't. But when we increase sensitivity we're not actually creating stronger or deeper performance, we're simply allowing more of the already existing returns to reach our headphones.

 

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[dewcon4414]

Increasing sensitivity can have a big down side too..... it increases the coil HALO and you take in a huge amount of soil to be processed. Much like high beams on a car in the fog.... you can loose as much as you gain by it responding to shallow targets that with less sensitivity it didnt see before. Headphones are important.... you have to have the right response to match your machines..... some need piezos others do better with speakers. Just curious if you are playing around with the threshold BS to get that kind of depth?

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Nuggets have some consistency that can be specifically targeted. And again, I've found plenty of small gold chains, etc., with the Excal. Now will the machine also respond to them in open air test or in test gardens? No, but then again, that isn't the real world either. And I ask again, because I have yet to see the Equinox knocking it out at depths. In fact, one of the complaints I often get about the machine is that it lacks depth.

The only way an excal will find a small chain is if there is a large clasp, a pendent or the chain is curled up in a tight ball and even then it is a scratchy signal. I have found 2 small chains, one had a pendent, and the other was rolled up in a ball. both were iffy signals and most people who do not know the excal well would have walked over them. I am seeing 14 inches with stock coil, and I can see more if in pinpoint mode.

I buried a very thin serpentine chain 4 inches in the dirt stretched out in test garden, stomped on it real good to compact the dirt and the Nox was able to hit it every single sweep. I am also able to hit a sub gram gold nugget every sweep.

Unless you own the Nox you will not know it's true potential. I still own my 3030 and my excals, but there is no doubt the NOX is an amazing detectorly. I would pick the Nox 10 out of 10 times over any Garrett, whites, or any other $1000 or less mid-level detector. Nox was not designed to out perform an Excal or 3030 but for the money it gives them both a run for the money at less than half the price of an Excal and 1/4 the price of the 3030 for the 600 and $600 less on an excal and $1600 less on 3030 for the 800 model. Minelab just did an update release on the Nox too.

 

[bigscoop]

Well TH, the only thing I can tell you is that I can, and do, find those very gold chains you say that the Excal can't find, no pendents, no large clasp, broken and stretched out like a snake. Air test, test gardens, they are pointless and mean absolutely nothing. Put that Excal in Disc mode, volume turned all the way down, zero disc, threshold to where you can hardly hear it, and then go hunt the beach for a week with just the threshold. You'll come off that beach saying, "Holy crap! This machine is super deep and super sensitive!" Until you do this you'll never know that. It's for this same reason that everyone thought G. Dryton was full it, but he wasn't. The Excal/Sov can do anything these other machines can do, and some of it even better.

PS: And get rid of that big coil!

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

I own 4 excals, 10", 13", 12x15" and 15" and I know how to use the excal extremely well.

 

[bigscoop]

Not here to argue with anyone, but until they've put on the 8" tornado stock coil and spent that week hunting the beach relying on just the threshold, as I've suggested, then they can't really argue these points anyway.

Dew, I fully understand that halo effect, speak of it often and have already referenced that issue in a prior post. And yes, I use both methods, reverse disc & near silent Disc mode, the threshold being key to both of them. I do run high sensitivity and I am anal about my threshold adjustment, often readjusting it during the hunt to keep at a minimum. Think of it this way, if a tiny black sand line can cause a shift in the threshold then so can a tiny stretched out gold chain. There's just no short cuts and the ones that do exist can be very costly in other areas of the process. The basic technology in hand demands it.