Experienced Beach Hunters Only - My Equinox 800 sucks, What should I replace it with?

[Cutaplug]

Before all the EQ800 owners mob me please hear me out. I am a lot more mature than my title. I think... Anyway I have been silver hunting for many years and would consider myself one of the best. My primary silver seekers are the ctx and etrac. My last push to find a lot of silver netted me 136 silvers in less than 3 months using the CTX. I believe the key to being productive while metal detecting is detecting efficiently. By hunting efficiently what I mean is:

1. Ability to distinguish ferrous from non ferrous targets easily at any depth. This is accomplished using the FE numbers on CTX and Etrac. (detector and user)
2. Ability to define desired target and discriminate out unwanted targets with minimal loss of performance (depth, signal consistency, etc...). (detector)
3. Ability to identify targets using audio and visual information to “skip” unwanted targets. (detector provides info, user deciphers info)
4. Quickly determining if a site is productive or not and moving on quickly if it’s not. (user)

Using the above info I have had a lot of success and I’m content with my abilities to hunt on land. Now that my horn is tooted I could really use some help with beach hunting. I recently moved to Florida and would like to find gold. If life was simple I would be able to take my CTX and kill it on gold but life is never simple. The CTX is a great machine on silver but to say it kindly it sucks on gold. I understand why but no need to go into details on that.

Now I am on a mission to find the CTX equivalent for lower conductivity targets such as gold. When the Minelab EQ 800 was released I was super excited and optimistic. Now that I’ve used it for a while I am in search of a new machine. The main issue with the eq800 is that is cannot distinguish ferrous targets from non ferrous targets (ie rusty bottle caps). I know I know someone will chime in and say the following:
- You can change the hunting frequency and the numbers will jump. Yes this is true for a mode such as park 2 which works great on dry sand. Even using Park 2 I do not want to check every target by changing the frequency. That is extremely inefficient. Park 2 is also too unstable to get any real depth on wet sand. On wet salty sand running beach 1 you can’t change the frequency since it is stuck in multi. New and Deteriorated bottle caps will give a solid signal.
- You can pump the coil up and down and see the numbers jump. I’ve seen the Youtube video, try doing that on a 12 inch target. Any 12 inch target will be all over the place you say? My response - the CTX and Etrac can easily distinguish ferrous from non ferrous targets at maximum depth capability. It is possible.
- The signal is different. I have seen solid tones on bottle caps, soft tones, scratchy tones, short tones, long tones so they have no consistency. A steel bottle cap can read #3 all the way up to the high teens on the eq800. There is no discriminating them out.

Now that I’m done ranting I’d love to get input from experienced beach hunters about what machine is the most efficient for low conductivity targets such as gold on the beach. What I’m looking for:
1. Ability to distinguish non ferrous from ferrous easily.
2. Detector is higher frequency so good on lower conductivity targets. Not looking for too high or I will be digging tiny aluminum pieces. Would like to find a sweet spot where it will pick up small earrings but not pieces so tiny my pinpointer won't even find them.
3. Excellent depth capabilities. If it can reach the same depths of eq800 I would be happy with it.
4. Ability to set discrimination to eliminate zinc pennies and up. I’m not interested in digging silver or coins. Just looking for gold.

The CTX and Etrac are the best of the best for land hunting silver. Is there a detector that is equivalent for beach gold detecting?

 

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[gamiller]

Equinox 800 sucks what should you replace it with?
More experience.

 

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[bigscoop]

We see it replay itself time and time again, most recently with machines like the 3030 and Equinox, user expectations being way over the top of what is really possible. Initially, the hype is enormous, the claims are astounding, but then history repeats itself again. "Its more sensitive to gold"...."it's deeper on gold"..."it can see through iron", etc., etc., etc. So I think expectations are the true issue a great deal of the time.

 

[SD51]

I don't beach or water hunt, but I have been digging a ton of pulltabs to hopefully find Gold rings using the E-TRAC. Pulltabs (the old style) produce a range of conductive numbers due to how it's oriented in the ground, if it's missing the beavertail and if it is not round or bent. Gold rings also produce a variety of conductance numbers depending on the karat weight and the physical size as well as orientation in the ground. Don't think that mother nature will ever change these facts since Gold and Aluminum are so close to each other on the Conductance scale.

 

[Truth]

Make sure you let us know what “anti-suck” machine you went with, with such little experience time.

 

[Professor of Engineering]

Great Job OBN!

 

[bigscoop]

I don't beach or water hunt, but I have been digging a ton of pulltabs to hopefully find Gold rings using the E-TRAC. Pulltabs (the old style) produce a range of conductive numbers due to how it's oriented in the ground, if it's missing the beavertail and if it is not round or bent. Gold rings also produce a variety of conductance numbers depending on the karat weight and the physical size as well as orientation in the ground. Don't think that mother nature will ever change these facts since Gold and Aluminum are so close to each other on the Conductance scale.

The problem is the complete lack of consistency in gold jewelry. Shape, size, alloy mixture, etc., also the strength of the return which can be effected by position in the ground, depth, varying mineralization in the ground, etc., unlike coins, per example, there's just nothing consistent in gold jewelry, and since there is nothing consistent in these desirable targets there can be no way to produce any type of reliable target ID. Manufacturers work very-very hard to propagate the opposite false-knowledge when promoting their newest and latest and greatest machines. There's just no shortcuts, folks, because there can't be.

 

[smokeythecat]

Again bigscoop is right on. Gold can ring up all over the machine's range. I had one piece that was tiny, it just made the machine go "buzz", no VDI at all. At the other end of the spectrum, the gold came up about as high as it gets on the Deus, 94! A big gold coin. User expectations on any machine can be unrealistic, I don't care who made the machine.

Hype? Falsehoods? You tell me. If you don't dig some junk, you're not doing it right.

 

[DeepseekerADS]

I have both the EQ800 and a completely modded Excal II.

The Excal is ABSOLUTELY my go to water machine. The pin point mod on the Excal, that's the greatest. When Minelab upgrades the Excal again, the pin point mod should be factory issued!!!

 

[smokeythecat]

I doubt you can beat an Excal in the water.

 

[DeepseekerADS]

I doubt you can beat an Excal in the water.

My hunting partner was swinging a Tesoro (Tiger Shark?), and I let him use my modded Excal for a hunt. Now he owns both, he got a modded one used off Craigslist from a friend of ours here on TNet - we just didn't know each other. I'd rather use my Excal than my CTX or EQ800. I speak the Excal language, and the CTX & EQ like to mix in foreign languages my ears can't understand! Simple & spot on are the best!

 

[bigscoop]

"Faster recovery speed".....I think detectorist need to ask themselves what really makes the possible? Research it, investigate it. With everything else being equal, in all metal mode the response is instantaneous, in disc mode it isn't. So how are manufacturers really creating these faster recovery speeds in disc modes? The answer will shock some....maybe deflate a lot of claims.

 

[cudamark]

The problem is the complete lack of consistency in gold jewelry. Shape, size, alloy mixture, etc., also the strength of the return which can be effected by position in the ground, depth, varying mineralization in the ground, etc., unlike coins, per example, there's just nothing consistent in gold jewelry, and since there is nothing consistent in these desirable targets there can be no way to produce any type of reliable target ID. Manufacturers work very-very hard to propagate the opposite false-knowledge when promoting their newest and latest and greatest machines. There's just no shortcuts, folks, because there can't be.

Very true. gold and other jewelry can read all over the board. Even coins can read off under many conditions. Metal detectors with tone and visual I.D. are just making a guess as to what the target is.....and how deep it is. Some machines are just better at making guesses. If you're trying to limit the trash digging, get a good guesser, otherwise just recover it to see what you found.

 

[Cutaplug]

If everyone could just find gold and not have to dig everything else to find it there would be a metal detector in every beach goers hand. If you don't want to dig coins or silver you don't even need a metal detector. Just borrow one once you have done all the research and know exactly where the gold cache is.

He or she that digs the most trash finds the most treasure.

I don't dig coins because I am tired of digging coins and want to focus on gold. You don't have to dig everything to find gold and the less you dig the better. Actually, not digging rusty steel bottle caps would be great. Is it unrealistic to expect a modern
$800 minelab machine to discriminate those out. I don't think so...

He or she that digs the most trash is least efficient. He or she that digs less trash and more treasure finds more treasure.

Equinox 800 sucks what should you replace it with?
More experience.

Thanks =)

We see it replay itself time and time again, most recently with machines like the 3030 and Equinox, user expectations being way over the top of what is really possible. Initially, the hype is enormous, the claims are astounding, but then history repeats itself again. "Its more sensitive to gold"...."it's deeper on gold"..."it can see through iron", etc., etc., etc. So I think expectations are the true issue a great deal of the time.

Of what is really possible? Discriminating out a rusty bottle caps is possible. CTX, Etrac, and AT Pro can all do it easily. If I expected the 800 to discriminate pull tabs then your above statement would make sense.

Make sure you let us know what “anti-suck” machine you went with, with such little experience time.

I have enough experience to know that hitting hard on deteriorated rusty bottle caps is a problem with the machine.

I have both the EQ800 and a completely modded Excal II.

The Excal is ABSOLUTELY my go to water machine. The pin point mod on the Excal, that's the greatest. When Minelab upgrades the Excal again, the pin point mod should be factory issued!!!

What advantages does the Excal have over eq800? I'm considering one.

"Faster recovery speed".....I think detectorist need to ask themselves what really makes the possible? Research it, investigate it. With everything else being equal, in all metal mode the response is instantaneous, in disc mode it isn't. So how are manufacturers really creating these faster recovery speeds in disc modes? The answer will shock some....maybe deflate a lot of claims.

But I thought is was new technology and super fast processesors On that note, does an XP Deus hit hard on rusty bottle caps? Honestly I don't know and would like to.

 

[bigscoop]

Cutaplug, you're buying into the hype that science and facts doesn't support. "If there is zero consistency in gold jewelry items then there can only be zero consistency in the ability to consistently and/or accurately I.D. those items." As for faster recovery speeds, faster processors? Here again that processor, since it can't function on consistent aspects in regards to gold jewelry it has to operate on "consistencies within returns." So in essence, you are allowing a machine to filter out returns that it determines to be of no value like returns that are too weak to be analyzed, etc., etc. These are returns that the end user will never even know to exist because they will never hear them, so instead of the user getting more data, he's actually getting far less data. As one poster already stated, these are great machines for recent drop hunters who want to cover a lot of ground fast, however, the trade-off is that they these users have been fooled into believing that they are hunting more efficiently, when in reality and based on 100% facts concerning gold jewelry items, it is not efficient hunting and these users WILL miss a lot of potential gold jewelry returns. Science doesn't even allow for argument of these facts.

 

[bigscoop]

Cutaplug, you're buying into the hype that science and facts doesn't support. "If there is zero consistency in gold jewelry items then there can only be zero consistency in the ability to consistently and/or accurately I.D. those items." As for faster recovery speeds, faster processors? Here again that processor, since it can't function on consistent aspects in regards to gold jewelry it has to operate on "consistencies within returns." So in essence, you are allowing a machine to filter out returns that it determines to be of no value like returns that are too weak to be analyzed, etc., etc. These are returns that the end user will never even know to exist because they will never hear them, so instead of the user getting more data, he's actually getting far less data. As one poster already stated, these are great machines for recent drop hunters who want to cover a lot of ground fast, however, the trade-off is that they these users have been fooled into believing that they are hunting more efficiently, when in reality and based on 100% facts concerning gold jewelry items, it is not efficient hunting and these users WILL miss a lot of potential gold jewelry returns. Science doesn't even allow for argument of these facts.

Cutaplug, if you won't believe me then present the following question to guys like OBN who excell at finding gold jewelry items each and every year, these are the guys I learned from. Here's the question you need to ask them, "How many of your recovered gold items started out sounding like gold items when you got those initial returns?" I'm betting they will likely answer, "Not all that many." And there, my friend, is the nudge, being able to recognize that coin shooting and hunting gold jewelry items are two completely different animals. It's the one thing these manufacturers of all of this latest and greatest technologies are counting on you not to recognize. There are no shortcuts when it comes to hunting for gold jewelry items. Hunt slower, dig more, and learn to be your own processor.

 

[OBN]

Cutaplug, if you won't believe me then present the following question to guys like OBN who excell at finding gold jewelry items each and every year, these are the guys I learned from. Here's the question you need to ask them, "How many of your recovered gold items started out sounding like gold items when you got those initial returns?" I'm betting they will likely answer, "Not all that many." And there, my friend, is the nudge, being able to recognize that coin shooting and hunting gold jewelry items are two completely different animals. It's the one thing these manufacturers of all of this latest and greatest technologies are counting on you not to recognize. There are no shortcuts when it comes to hunting for gold jewelry items. Hunt slower, dig more, and learn to be your own processor.

Zero sound like gold, dug close to 600 gold rings in 6 years, not a one other then a gold grill did I say this is gold. it was a fresh drop..

How about these, dug a few weeks ago...complete surprise. Each sounded like larger sinkers.


one was mixed in with several of these....


After I dug one, I could not stop digging the sinkers..then I found the other 18k a few hunts later. 995.oo melt

 

[bigscoop]

Zero sound like gold, dug close to 600 gold rings in 6 years, not a one other then a gold grill did I say this is gold. it was a fresh drop..

How about these, dug a few weeks ago...complete surprise. Each sounded like larger sinkers.

View attachment 1737658
...and one was mixed in with several of these....
View attachment 1737650

After I dug one, I could not stop digging the sinkers..then I found the other 18k a few hunts later. 995.oo melt

Awesomer! I've not been out in quite some time, a month or more, perhaps. Going to have to remedy that situation soon....lol Sweet digs! And I concur, nearly all of my gold recoveries sound like something else initially, especially the deeper ones, those tones continuing to change as my coil continues to get closer and closer. You just can't consistently recover gold jewelry items with a coin shooter mindset and that technology......just doesn't apply.

 

[Irishgoldhound]

I don't dig coins because I am tired of digging coins and want to focus on gold. You don't have to dig everything to find gold and the less you dig the better. Actually, not digging rusty steel bottle caps would be great. Is it unrealistic to expect a modern
$800 minelab machine to discriminate those out. I don't think so...

He or she that digs the most trash is least efficient. He or she that digs less trash and more treasure finds more treasure.




Thanks =)



Of what is really possible? Discriminating out a rusty bottle caps is possible. CTX, Etrac, and AT Pro can all do it easily. If I expected the 800 to discriminate pull tabs then your above statement would make sense.



I have enough experience to know that hitting hard on deteriorated rusty bottle caps is a problem with the machine.



What advantages does the Excal have over eq800? I'm considering one.



But I thought is was new technology and super fast processesors On that note, does an XP Deus hit hard on rusty bottle caps? Honestly I don't know and would like to.

Should of bought an AT Pro. Bottle caps will quack on the AT. I can tell every time if it’s a cap.

 

[smokeythecat]

I use the Deus and it's no slouch. There are better machines for use in salt water, however. I like dry sand and don't particularly like salt beaches. Than being said, I mainly relic hunt and have been very successful. I agree with OBN and Bigscoop. I don't think I have ever found a gold item that SOUNDED like I thought gold should have sounded like or shown up on the VDI as I thought it should. My first gold coin blew my ears off. I thought it was a shallow colonial copper. The next one was just a tiny squeak. It was a $1 and it wasn't deep and I hardly heard it. They are tiny and hide. I had a 2 Escudo Spanish sound off about "94" on the Deus, I thought it was silver. Best ring was almost a foot down and I thought it was aluminum.

Frankly, if you only want gold, the only way to ensure that is to shop at a jewelry store. There are too many variables with gold to "predict" how it will either sound or show up on the VDI. The Equinox are decent machines. I don't think it will help you to get any other machine. The technology you want does not exist.

 

[Bodkin]

Typically when I start a new area of a hobby I ask the guys that have bin in that area of the hobby for their advise, to say the Nox sucks is not validated with your experience since you dont have any in that area of the hobby...

Sounds like you need more time with your Nox and some gold...

Make yourself a test bed using some gold and start learning what the Nox can do...

Gold with the Nox? Made myself a test bed which included the rings I had, bracelet, earrings, gold teeth (yes, I found them), and assorted sized gold coins new and old I borrowed from my friend who deals in them. Got every signal from 1 to 24. As I've learned, dig it all.