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Thread: TDI BeachHunter vs Surfmaster Dual Field

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  1. #16
    us
    Feb 2012
    138
    60 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Someday take a gold ring taped to a string, dig a deep hole in the wet sand, and just see how deep the DF does vs CTX or Equinox. (Keep pulling until detected) I was really underwhelmed. But my gp extreme (a PI) did the best. So Im really interested to see how the BH does. Black sand is not that common for me to worry about though.
    The GP Extreme ignored the foil bits the Equinox saw. Is this a PI trait or did it miss them just because they were small?

  2. #17
    Charter Member
    us
    Nov 2012
    Maryland
    XP Deus, Tesoro Cibola, Full sized shovel and a backhoe
    15,492
    28211 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Banner Finds (8)
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    Now ya'll hold your horses. TERRY, want depth, we're letting the bulldozers do the work for us here They are building dunes on numerous beaches and the contest is on! Found a 5 ounce sinker, black as all get out 80' from the water yesterday. Thank you bulldozers! It didn't get there by itself.

    CarsonChris are you SERIOUS about the Nox not doing black sand? Like for real? I had not heard that.

    STAVR, we were detecting an ocean beach and zoomed in on the black sands with our VLF machines and the black is where I found my best two items. They certainly do hunt wet beach black sand. I normally deliberately go to the black sands first every time I go.

    Our VLF machines are pulling tiny brass pieces of broken swivels at depth in the black sand. You setting your machines up correctly?

    Guys - now I'm awake!

  3. #18
    ua
    Stavr

    Nov 2008
    Odessa
    Excalibur 1000 & Explorer XS & GQAS v.2 Eric Foster &Eureka Gold & PI Dolphin (HM 9μS)
    125
    71 times
    TDI / GQAS / AS /GQ - has a delay from 10 μS
    DF -has a delay from 15 μS
    all small targets (earrings, thin rings) deep medium targets will not be visible to PI ... because the response from the target has already broken up and is not available for processing

  4. #19
    OBN
    OBN is offline
    us
    Dec 2008
    Mid-Atlantic Waters
    Excalibur
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    Honorable Mentions (1)
    Quote Originally Posted by stavr View Post
    TDI / GQAS / AS /GQ - has a delay from 10 μS
    DF -has a delay from 15 μS
    all small targets (earrings, thin rings) deep medium targets will not be visible to PI ... because the response from the target has already broken up and is not available for processing
    I believe the Fisher "AQ" is 7μS, now that will be interesting.

    And I do see a few weaknesses also but I don't think they are so bad to where it would bother me. If worse comes to worse I will run it from inside of a drysuit, control unit inside of. I do think I will be able to pull a little more depth out of it then most since I believe the big weakness in any water detector or detector for that matter are the head phones. Something that is my specialty.

    Blood Member of RingKeepers
    2020......Gold Rings....24 .......Silvers ...18







  5. #20
    ua
    Stavr

    Nov 2008
    Odessa
    Excalibur 1000 & Explorer XS & GQAS v.2 Eric Foster &Eureka Gold & PI Dolphin (HM 9μS)
    125
    71 times
    OBN. "I believe the Fisher "AQ" is 7μS, now that will be interesting." (c) 100% not less than 10μS, especially with this coil!for 9μS or 8μS, a special coil with a minimum capacity and low quality factor is already needed, this is not what I see in the photo and video.


    headphones you are completely right! here I completely agree with you
    Ruslan.

  6. #21
    OBN
    OBN is offline
    us
    Dec 2008
    Mid-Atlantic Waters
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    Quote Originally Posted by stavr View Post
    OBN. "I believe the Fisher "AQ" is 7μS, now that will be interesting." (c) 100% not less than 10μS, especially with this coil!for 9μS or 8μS, a special coil with a minimum capacity and low quality factor is already needed, this is not what I see in the photo and video.


    headphones you are completely right! here I completely agree with you
    Ruslan.
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ID:	1753302Alexandra T is the man behind the "AQ" , https://www.linkedin.com/in/tartar-alexandre-b7131b99/
    Last edited by OBN; Sep 15, 2019 at 11:36 PM.

    Blood Member of RingKeepers
    2020......Gold Rings....24 .......Silvers ...18







  7. #22
    ua
    Stavr

    Nov 2008
    Odessa
    Excalibur 1000 & Explorer XS & GQAS v.2 Eric Foster &Eureka Gold & PI Dolphin (HM 9μS)
    125
    71 times
    OBN. I'm talking about real numbers on the ground and the answer is from real coils and goals (in the laboratory you can even 7)
    you can write anything on the device ...., on my dolphin the PI was graded 5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12-14-14-16
    when I was asked if your device is working at 5μS? I answered, I strive for this ....
    PS: AQ -12.5” Mono Coil & 7μS ....
    give the coil data or I don’t understand something in physics
    even "correct" coils over 11 "do not want to work below 9μS
    pss: we say: wait ...- see later ...
    Ruslan.

  8. #23
    us
    TerrysKnifeStore.com

    May 2010
    White Plains, New York
    Minelab GPZ 7000; Equinox 600 -- Teknetics EuroTek PRO -- Grave Digger Tools Nemesis shovel, Sidekick hand digger -- Bunk's Hermit Pick
    17,268
    24168 times
    Metal Detecting
    Honorable Mentions (1)
    Quote Originally Posted by stavr View Post
    TDI / GQAS / AS /GQ - has a delay from 10 μS
    DF -has a delay from 15 μS
    all small targets (earrings, thin rings) deep medium targets will not be visible to PI ... because the response from the target has already broken up and is not available for processing
    There is a lot of controversy over "Pulse Delay," and its importance to depth and small target sensitivity. Unfortunately, most people don't understand that a setting of 10us pulse delay, can be very chatty and unsteady on wet sand. So even though you may be getting more sensitivity to smaller targets, you might not hear them.

    Now, move your coil from the wet sand and into the water and you will have to increase your pulse delay to at least 15us to smooth out the threshold. By the time you have reached a depth of five-feet in saltwater, you'll need a pulse delay of about 20us.

    Those who fault the Tesoro Sand Shark for running a 19.5us pulse delay, instead of a 15us pulse delay like the Dual Field, claiming it is less sensitive - or lacks depth are welcome to their opinion, but if you have used the different machines like I have, you know better. The pulse delay must be coupled with power to the coil, and circuitry that filters and reads the return signal. The performance of a machine is NOT based only on pulse delay. That is my opinion, and why I think I would rather have a set pulse delay of 20us, than 15us or 10us. Placing my flame ******ant long johns on now

  9. #24
    ua
    Stavr

    Nov 2008
    Odessa
    Excalibur 1000 & Explorer XS & GQAS v.2 Eric Foster &Eureka Gold & PI Dolphin (HM 9μS)
    125
    71 times
    Quote Originally Posted by Terry Soloman View Post
    There is a lot of controversy over "Pulse Delay," and its importance to depth and small target sensitivity. Unfortunately, most people don't understand that a setting of 10us pulse delay, can be very chatty and unsteady on wet sand. So even though you may be getting more sensitivity to smaller targets, you might not hear them.

    Now, move your coil from the wet sand and into the water and you will have to increase your pulse delay to at least 15us to smooth out the threshold. By the time you have reached a depth of five-feet in saltwater, you'll need a pulse delay of about 20us.

    Those who fault the Tesoro Sand Shark for running a 19.5us pulse delay, instead of a 15us pulse delay like the Dual Field, claiming it is less sensitive - or lacks depth are welcome to their opinion, but if you have used the different machines like I have, you know better. The pulse delay must be coupled with power to the coil, and circuitry that filters and reads the return signal. The performance of a machine is NOT based only on pulse delay. That is my opinion, and why I think I would rather have a set pulse delay of 20us, than 15us or 10us. Placing my flame ******ant long johns on now
    1) for a beginner, your approach is logical.
    2) for the average user, you can put up with 19μS
    3) for the advanced, this is not acceptable, at least 12μS\ on.off ground balance \ fine tuning of the device \ alternative coils is necessary
    4) for the Guru user- this is just ridiculous! 10 μS or less, \ turbo mode \ on.off ground balance \ subtle settings for all device parameters \ top quality op-amp, ADC, processor and DSP, coils / programming signal processing / working with soil and target databases ... etc.
    ps: imho
    Ruslan.
    Last edited by stavr; Sep 17, 2019 at 03:51 AM.
    Terry Soloman likes this.

  10. #25
    gb
    Paul Martin

    Feb 2015
    Scarborough, England
    Minelab Equinox 600, home made carbon fibre shaft, XP MI-4 Pointer
    252
    230 times
    Beach and Shallow Water Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by stavr View Post
    OBN, to be honest ... then I donít believe the Fisher"AQ"project (more precisely, I donít expect anything extraordinary from them, itís another dull md ...)
    Attachment 1751587
    I already see some serious mistakes that won't make a hit! IMHO of course
    if this team is interested in my opinion, I will answer their questions with a glass of beer or wine ...
    Ruslan.
    Ruslan, what mistakes do you see?

  11. #26
    ua
    Stavr

    Nov 2008
    Odessa
    Excalibur 1000 & Explorer XS & GQAS v.2 Eric Foster &Eureka Gold & PI Dolphin (HM 9μS)
    125
    71 times
    Quote Originally Posted by sandmartin View Post
    Ruslan, what mistakes do you see?
    I still see awkward things - outstanding for "promising prospects." I didn’t say it is impossible ... I’m just waiting for the result, which I don’t see yet.


    I didn’t see anything serious (real oscillograms of working on the beach on a gold ring, device board, X-ray photo coil, coil parameters), therefore it’s too early to judge serious errors .... but as an experienced user and person who makes and repairs metal detectors for a very long time I see absurdities ... between photos and statements ...
    Ruslan.

  12. #27
    us
    TerrysKnifeStore.com

    May 2010
    White Plains, New York
    Minelab GPZ 7000; Equinox 600 -- Teknetics EuroTek PRO -- Grave Digger Tools Nemesis shovel, Sidekick hand digger -- Bunk's Hermit Pick
    17,268
    24168 times
    Metal Detecting
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    Quote Originally Posted by stavr View Post
    1) ...4) for the Guru user- this is just ridiculous! 10 μS or less, \ turbo mode \ on.off ground balance \ subtle settings for all device parameters \ top quality op-amp, ADC, processor and DSP, coils / programming signal processing / working with soil and target databases ... etc.
    ps: imho
    Ruslan.
    Yes, in the gold fields with my Minelab GPZ, but NOT on a saltwater beach. You simply DO NOT NEED that kind of power or depth.

  13. #28
    OBN
    OBN is offline
    us
    Dec 2008
    Mid-Atlantic Waters
    Excalibur
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    ...Terry "Honestly" I need the depth..let me have it ..Please...

    And Fisher..a two or three year warranty..Please

    I do agree with Ruslan, We are going to need time on this one. But i'm willing to gamble ...
    Terry Soloman and stavr like this.

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    2020......Gold Rings....24 .......Silvers ...18







  14. #29
    us
    TerrysKnifeStore.com

    May 2010
    White Plains, New York
    Minelab GPZ 7000; Equinox 600 -- Teknetics EuroTek PRO -- Grave Digger Tools Nemesis shovel, Sidekick hand digger -- Bunk's Hermit Pick
    17,268
    24168 times
    Metal Detecting
    Honorable Mentions (1)
    Of all the gold rings found in wet sand or water at the beach, how many were deeper than 12"? For myself, the vast majority of gold has been between 5" to 10" deep. My deepest was in the dry sand at about 16" deep. Most found with an 8" coil on a Tesoro Sand Shark.

  15. #30
    OBN
    OBN is offline
    us
    Dec 2008
    Mid-Atlantic Waters
    Excalibur
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry Soloman View Post
    Of all the gold rings found in wet sand or water at the beach, how many were deeper than 12"? For myself, the vast majority of gold has been between 5" to 10" deep. My deepest was in the dry sand at about 16" deep. Most found with an 8" coil on a Tesoro Sand Shark.

    Seems they can be just about any depth here, several times I can get a spot where it is loaded with older coins and in the mist of checking the hole after digging them I find a gold ring on the wall or just deeper. A few times and just recently I've dug a deep wheaty, then there was another a foot away. They were in the area of 12 to 14 inch's, as I was doing my circle I got a solid hit, like a fresh drop..gold ring..in the dug sand I had thrown to the side. Then a few years ago, we had a spot that we wore out. Until we realized by just digging a hole we could find gold rings and silver coins, Mike and I called it mining. And just from hunting maybe 15 beach's in the last year 5 years, many times. I see a pattern...And remember this is in the water only, where sands shift...

    On another note I had a honey hole this past july..37 gold rings in 32 days. All in the deeper water, chest to chin deep. Some how mother nature opened a area up, cleaned most of the sand out...targets where every where..but mostly just rings and most were gold. Since I have to play the tide games I was only able to get into the area 15 times in that 32 days..every hunt I found gold, shallow I would say..mostly 6 to 12 inch's (variations because the bottom/slope is not perfectly flat). Never had them that shallow before, Then Bam..A Northeaster came in for a few days... and filled her back in...Gone, covered..I can dig down about 2 feet and hit the crunchy shells that holds the gold...it's there I just can hear it...

    I could continue with the stories but I can Honestly say, I know the spots I hunt very well, it changes I will noticed it.

    I need deep...Please

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