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View Poll Results: I believe the Beale codes and story is.......

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60. You may not vote on this poll
  • True, just as it was written.

    15 25.00%
  • Partially true, but relating to a different event.

    14 23.33%
  • A complete fabricated hoax.

    19 31.67%
  • A fabricated hoax that still contains two real unsolved messages.

    12 20.00%
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Thread: Beale Poll....Fact or Fiction?

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  1. #166
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    Re: Beale Poll....Fact or Fiction?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kentucky Kache
    Quote Originally Posted by bigscoop
    For discussion purposes, let’s explore the information provided to us in the pamphlet, and with the foregone conclusion that the author is trying to tell us a true tale, weather it be first hand or second hand.

    “If this was the case”, that the author was trying to tell us of a true event without exposing his true identity, then just about everything we would have needed to know to enable us to figure it all out would have most likely been included in this pamphlet, "if" this was his purpose. Agreed?
    But he hadn't figured it all out himself, had he?
    True, that's why I included the "first hand" or "second hand" to try to cover both possibilities/means of a truth being told. Maybe he did know the truth, maybe he hadn't figured it all out? But either way he would have included most everything he could think of to enable us to possibly figure it out. (I didn't explain that very well, did I?)
    "The key to finding gold is finding places where it can be accessed."

  2. #167
    Kentucky Kache

    Re: Beale Poll....Fact or Fiction?

    Quote Originally Posted by bigscoop
    Quote Originally Posted by Kentucky Kache
    Quote Originally Posted by bigscoop
    For discussion purposes, let’s explore the information provided to us in the pamphlet, and with the foregone conclusion that the author is trying to tell us a true tale, weather it be first hand or second hand.

    “If this was the case”, that the author was trying to tell us of a true event without exposing his true identity, then just about everything we would have needed to know to enable us to figure it all out would have most likely been included in this pamphlet, "if" this was his purpose. Agreed?
    But he hadn't figured it all out himself, had he?
    True, that's why I included the "first hand" or "second hand" to try to cover both possibilities/means of a truth being told. Maybe he did know the truth, maybe he hadn't figured it all out? But either way he would have included most everything he could think of to enable us to possibly figure it out. (I didn't explain that very well, did I?)
    Yeah, I would say he would have tried to explain it the best he could.

  3. #168

    Jun 2007
    9,583
    1330 times

    Re: Beale Poll....Fact or Fiction?

    MY response is this... you guys are NOT from this area, where the "events" allegedly occurred; THUS... being "stuck" in the BEALE PAPERS "box". Being a "local" DOES have GREATER benefits in that "we" can go outside the BP "box", and review the HART PAPERS, for instance. There is SUBSEQUENT info that can be reviewed, histories, legends, etc for Research & Investigation; that requires MORE than a "quickie" visit to Bedford County/Lynchburg. VIRGINIA area. KK, tell us MORE about YOUR research; bs, tell us MORE about YOUR "visits" to this area in VIRGINIA. TY!

  4. #169
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    treasurelagoon.wordpress.com

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    Re: Beale Poll....Fact or Fiction?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rebel - KGC
    MY response is this... you guys are NOT from this area, where the "events" allegedly occurred; THUS... being "stuck" in the BEALE PAPERS "box". Being a "local" DOES have GREATER benefits in that "we" can go outside the BP "box", and review the HART PAPERS, for instance. There is SUBSEQUENT info that can be reviewed, histories, legends, etc for Research & Investigation; that requires MORE than a "quickie" visit to Bedford County/Lynchburg. VIRGINIA area. KK, tell us MORE about YOUR research; bs, tell us MORE about YOUR "visits" to this area in VIRGINIA. TY!
    Reb, the only response I can even think to offer you on this is, "Where's the solutions?" There is nothing left in Bedford county to explore that hasn't already been turned over so many times all the edging is growing worn and chipped. By your own words you local guys have all the in's and secrets and yet.....despite all your best efforts, there's still, "nothing conclusive." I'm not sure I'd boast too much about that.
    "The key to finding gold is finding places where it can be accessed."

  5. #170

    Jun 2007
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    Re: Beale Poll....Fact or Fiction?

    HA! Just tell US about YOUR trips up here; SOLUTIONS? LOL! Meaning finding the GOLD, etc?

  6. #171
    Charter Member
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    treasurelagoon.wordpress.com

    Jun 2010
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    Re: Beale Poll....Fact or Fiction?

    Heaven forbid an outsider ever figures it all out, on that day all of Bedford County will recede from the Union and gunshots will be fired!
    "The key to finding gold is finding places where it can be accessed."

  7. #172

    Jun 2007
    9,583
    1330 times

    Re: Beale Poll....Fact or Fiction?

    HA! Such a SMART A$$! Tell us that YOU have NEVER been to Bedford County, VIRGINIA, then!

  8. #173
    Charter Member
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    treasurelagoon.wordpress.com

    Jun 2010
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    Re: Beale Poll....Fact or Fiction?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rebel - KGC
    HA! Such a SMART A$$! Tell us that YOU have NEVER been to Bedford County, VIRGINIA, then!
    I was there in 2005 & 2006. Both times I visited the same half-dozen places of interest. I drove a white 2003 Astro cargo van with and Indiana plate. Maybe, if you stop and think about it, you might recall seeing me there?
    "The key to finding gold is finding places where it can be accessed."

  9. #174

    Jun 2007
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    1330 times

    Re: Beale Poll....Fact or Fiction?

    2005/2006? Naw... wasn't out ''in the field", then. WHERE all did YOU look? FYI, I am focussing on the Greater Lynchburg, VIRGINIA area, including the mountains/James River of NORTH EAST Bedford County, VIRGINIA. YOU may have taken the BEALE PAPERS, literally... finding nothing & concluding it is all a HOAX! AH WELL!

  10. #175
    Charter Member
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    treasurelagoon.wordpress.com

    Jun 2010
    East Coast Florida
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    Beach and Shallow Water Hunting

    Re: Beale Poll....Fact or Fiction?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rebel - KGC
    2005/2006? Naw... wasn't out ''in the field", then. WHERE all did YOU look? FYI, I am focussing on the Greater Lynchburg, VIRGINIA area, including the mountains/James River of NORTH EAST Bedford County, VIRGINIA. YOU may have taken the BEALE PAPERS, literally... finding nothing & concluding it is all a HOAX! AH WELL!
    Let's just say that I think the author was a tattletale or sorts. I think he already knew the truth behind the story before he ever penned it. The people he included in the story were not chosen at random and the details he included in the story were likewise included for a reason. The dates are also accurate. The spelling of the name Beale is also accurate. The description and physical details about TJB are also accurate.

    All of this will be directly or indirectly confirmed in C1, which is actually a secured cipher, meaning that no one person will be able to decode it by themselves. Now you ask; How would this be possible? Here's how it was done:

    Each of Beale's associates (those names in C3) had what is called a nomenclature list in their presence, and these list were all identical. By their design these list contained entire words, names, etc., with each of them being assigned a, "four digit code". This was very common practice during the era, in fact it was often used during the civil war to further protect messages that were being sent back and forth. The purpose of these list was to insure that even if the key document to a cipher was discovered the entire coded message could not be fully understood without the aid of the appropriate nomenclature list. C1 1 contains 19 of these critical four digit codes.

    Here's how it worked in regards to the Beale story;
    Morriss was given the iron box containing the ciphers, Beale's associates each had a nomenclature key, but Morriss didn't know who Beale's associates were and they didn't know Morriss had the ciphers. In the event that someone with the key would have showed up at Morriss place of residence and gained control of the ciphers, they still could not have decoded C1 entirely without seeking the aid of a nomenclature list belonging to one of the men in C3, thus insuring that members of the party would have been alerted to the threat. The opposite was also true in that none of the men on C3 would have been able to locate the vault without the aid of Morriss and the ciphers, who they didn't even know existed. This is why it was perfectly safe to leave the ciphers in the iron box with Morriss, because by themselves the location of the vault still couldn't be identified. It's actually a brilliant arrangement, and one that could not have been pulled off by thirty locals. Hence, Beale's associates were not from Bedford County.
    "The key to finding gold is finding places where it can be accessed."

  11. #176
    Charter Member
    us
    treasurelagoon.wordpress.com

    Jun 2010
    East Coast Florida
    An older blue Excal with connector, remote, Skullie headphones, and various coils. Got rid of the rest of my machines.
    8,299
    2707 times
    Beach and Shallow Water Hunting

    Re: Beale Poll....Fact or Fiction?

    Quote Originally Posted by Franklin
    Quote Originally Posted by bigscoop
    Quote Originally Posted by Rebel - KGC
    2005/2006? Naw... wasn't out ''in the field", then. WHERE all did YOU look? FYI, I am focussing on the Greater Lynchburg, VIRGINIA area, including the mountains/James River of NORTH EAST Bedford County, VIRGINIA. YOU may have taken the BEALE PAPERS, literally... finding nothing & concluding it is all a HOAX! AH WELL!
    Let's just say that I think the author was a tattletale or sorts. I think he already knew the truth behind the story before he ever penned it. The people he included in the story were not chosen at random and the details he included in the story were likewise included for a reason. The dates are also accurate. The spelling of the name Beale is also accurate. The description and physical details about TJB are also accurate.

    All of this will be directly or indirectly confirmed in C1, which is actually a secured cipher, meaning that no one person will be able to decode it by themselves. Now you ask; How would this be possible? Here's how it was done:

    Each of Beale's associates (those names in C3) had what is called a nomenclature list in their presence, and these list were all identical. By their design these list contained entire words, names, etc., with each of them being assigned a, "four digit code". This was very common practice during the era, in fact it was often used during the civil war to further protect messages that were being sent back and forth. The purpose of these list was to insure that even if the key document to a cipher was discovered the entire coded message could not be fully understood without the aid of the appropriate nomenclature list. C1 1 contains 19 of these critical four digit codes.

    Here's how it worked in regards to the Beale story;
    Morriss was given the iron box containing the ciphers, Beale's associates each had a nomenclature key, but Morriss didn't know who Beale's associates were and they didn't know Morriss had the ciphers. In the event that someone with the key would have showed up at Morriss place of residence and gained control of the ciphers, they still could not have decoded C1 entirely without seeking the aid of a nomenclature list belonging to one of the men in C3, thus insuring that members of the party would have been alerted to the threat. The opposite was also true in that none of the men on C3 would have been able to locate the vault without the aid of Morriss and the ciphers, who they didn't even know existed. This is why it was perfectly safe to leave the ciphers in the iron box with Morriss, because by themselves the location of the vault still couldn't be identified. It's actually a brilliant arrangement, and one that could not have been pulled off by thirty locals. Hence, Beale's associates were not from Bedford County.
    What about the ten men that helped TJB bury the treasure? They would not where the treasure was buried either according to you? Poppycock
    I don't recall anyone saying, "ten men helped TJB bury the treasure?" I do, however, recall something being said about ten names/friends/associates. But you're the writer so I'm sure you're haven't speculated or indulged on the facts so I'll take your word for it that they also helped him bury the/a treasure. Thank you for setting me straight.
    "The key to finding gold is finding places where it can be accessed."

  12. #177
    Kentucky Kache

    Re: Beale Poll....Fact or Fiction?

    According to the story, all the men in the party had agreed on the selection of Morris to be the keeper of the box. Of course that doesn't mean it has to be true.

  13. #178
    Charter Member
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    treasurelagoon.wordpress.com

    Jun 2010
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    Beach and Shallow Water Hunting

    Re: Beale Poll....Fact or Fiction?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kentucky Kache
    According to the story, all the men in the party had agreed on the selection of Morris to be the keeper of the box. Of course that doesn't mean it has to be true.
    I wrestled with this same issue for quite a while, but you have to keep reading the letter as there is/was a difference in his use of the words "parties", "friends", "associates", etc. As you keep reading the letter you learn that it was he and "his friends who set upon forming a party of no less then thirty men...." and these "other men" in turn had to, "sign the conditions" set forth before they were accepted as members to, "the over all party". Also remember, Beale states in this letter that Morriss did not know or had never seen any of the, "parties", so likewise they did not know and had never seen Morriss. The next paragraph in this letter is also extrememly important, especially the details it contains.
    "The key to finding gold is finding places where it can be accessed."

  14. #179
    Kentucky Kache

    Re: Beale Poll....Fact or Fiction?

    Quote Originally Posted by bigscoop
    Quote Originally Posted by Kentucky Kache
    According to the story, all the men in the party had agreed on the selection of Morris to be the keeper of the box. Of course that doesn't mean it has to be true.
    I wrestled with this same issue for quite a while, but you have to keep reading the letter as there is/was a difference in his use of the words "parties", "friends", "associates", etc. As you keep reading the letter you learn that it was he and "his friends who set upon forming a party of no less then thirty men...." and these "other men" in turn had to, "sign the conditions" set forth before they were accepted as members to, "the over all party". Also remember, Beale states in this letter that Morriss did not know or had never seen any of the, "parties", so likewise they did not know and had never seen Morriss. The next paragraph in this letter is also extrememly important, especially the details it contains.
    Could be.

  15. #180
    Kentucky Kache

    Re: Beale Poll....Fact or Fiction?

    Quote Originally Posted by bigscoop
    Quote Originally Posted by Kentucky Kache
    According to the story, all the men in the party had agreed on the selection of Morris to be the keeper of the box. Of course that doesn't mean it has to be true.
    I wrestled with this same issue for quite a while, but you have to keep reading the letter as there is/was a difference in his use of the words "parties", "friends", "associates", etc. As you keep reading the letter you learn that it was he and "his friends who set upon forming a party of no less then thirty men...." and these "other men" in turn had to, "sign the conditions" set forth before they were accepted as members to, "the over all party". Also remember, Beale states in this letter that Morriss did not know or had never seen any of the, "parties", so likewise they did not know and had never seen Morriss. The next paragraph in this letter is also extrememly important, especially the details it contains.
    Are you referring to Beale saying the potential members had to be financially able to encounter the expense?

 

 
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