Beale Poll....Fact or Fiction?

[bigscoop]

So, bs... YOU think we are ALL silly ppl, eh? VERY JUDGMENTAL "value judgment"; show YOUR "proof" of a hoax. TY! The "Topic" is... BEALE CODES & STORY; I recken YOU figure the ORIGINAL "story" and cipher(s) are a hoax... based on WHAT?

No...no.....I was suggesting, "They're silly people for not believing there's something to the tale!" I may have made earlier comment that there is strong argumentative evidence of a hoax, but personally I believe there's a whole lot more to the story.

 

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[Rebel - KGC]

OK, THAT said... I agree; there IS "something out there". What I think is IMPORTANT, also... is that we MAY have to separate the "Beale Story" from the "BT" (Beale Treasure). For example, the "BT" in Old City Cemetery MAY have been the $$$$$$$$$$$$ from the banks of Richmond, VIRGINIA after the capital of VIRGINIA "fell". Lynchburg, VIRGINIA was the LAST state capital of VIRGINIA, as Prez. Jeff Davis fled SOUTH, with the CSA Treasury, but then... THAT is ANOTHER story. "BT" in Old City Cemetery MAY have been recovered to utilize in the rebuilding of Richmond, VIRGINIA during the Reconstruction - POST "Confederate War"; it IS interesting that CSA General Jubal Early lived and died here in Lynchburg, VIRGINIA, after the "War", and was stated to have met KGC/Copperheads up north... what did he know? ALSO, Gen. TT Munford had a "unit" as alleged guards for the "Beale Treasure" buried near Boonesboro (northwest of Lynchburg/northeast Bedford County, VIRGINIA on Fleming/Jackson
Mountain, near NO BUSINESS Mountain in northeast Bedford County, along the James River... which I am doing R & I on. Neither Gen. Early, nor Gen. Munford ever SURRENDERED! Apparently, they STILL wanted to fight, and hoped that the provisions of the "BT" would enable it; once the "dream" was over, a "pre-selected" group of ppl MAY have known about "BT", and the BEALE PAPERS was leaked to the LOCAL market in 1885, with a "cover story". The US Gov't via NSA looked for "it"; NEVER finding "it" (last report in the 1940's, I think). FINALLY, Pauline (with "connections" to NSA, and various folks like the Friedmans), released the "story" to the "mass market", with GOLD IN THE BLUE RIDGE. As YOU now know... THE REST IS HISTORY; VERY mysterious, tho!

 

[bigscoop]

The entire Virginia region is loaded with history, but I don't think the real substance (meat and potatoes) behind the Beale souce originated anywhere close to it.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

DO tell us MORE! Looking for the GRAVY!

 

[bigscoop]

2011 – 1885 = 126 years
In that 126 years, “thousands” of both amateur and professional researchers, including government sources, have applied every resource and the highest technology while investigating the story in the Beale Pamphlet, and yet to date, “Nothing of any true significance has ever been found to establish that there ever was a man named Thomas Jefferson Beale, nor has there ever been anything of any real significance ever discovered to tie any of Bedford County’s residents to the story, other then the original names in the pamphlet, the agent Ward, and the publisher, Sherman.”

Conclusion 1)....there was no true name, Thomas Jefferson Beale fitting the description offered in the pamphlet. If there had been some positive trace of him would have most certainly been found by now.

Conclusion 2) ….the party of thirty men were not from Bedford County, Virginia, if they had been at least a few of them and their connection to the party would have been “positively” identified by now. And why do I say this: In 1818-1820 the population density of Bedford County was roughly 25 people per square mile, with most of these people living in, or in close proximity to, established communities. Thirty local men from the region could not have departed on this grand journey, (some of them twice) without their presence being missed, made note of, and talked about.

 

[bigscoop]

A) Grab a phone book, select thirty names at random, and you can just about always fit at least half of them into C3. You can do this because of the absence of repeated code, or the presence of unduplicated code, however you wish to look at it. This test has been performed many times and the results are nearly always the same.

B) Again, there is no proof whatsoever, that a "Thomas Jefferson Beale" as spelled out in the Pamphlet ever existed. There are Thomas Beale, Thomas Beall, etc., but "NO" Thomas Jefferson Beale. Was Morriss really Morris? When we start changing names we start changing, "complete identities." The name, or proposed identity, is spelled out very clearly in the pamphlet, and it is spelled, "Thomas Jefferson Beale" and it has never been found despite all efforts.

C) The Beale Story leaves open so many unknowns it allows for a "filling in of the numerous blanks" so that entire conclusions can be somewhat comfortablly fashioned into it. For instance, to date there have been many claims of final solution, but I have yet to see a "clean" or even "fairly clean" completed clear text for either C1 & C3. Examine C2, it is crisp, clear, very clean and straight to the point, so if C1 & C3 were penned by the same man then why would we expect anything less in them? And if we claim that someone else penned them to explain all these solution errors and inaccuracies, then it certainly wasn't the well bread, well spoken, and well educated leader of the party as described in the pamphlet and related letters.

Just my own opinions and I mean no disrespect, and I certainly could be wrong in these opinions, but I simply can't buy into all these claims of solution for the reasons above.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

bs, YOU are from EAST coast of Florida, and have been to Bedford County, VIRGINIA; tell us when & where YOU went and how long YOU were here. Your phone book example wouldn't work around here... LOL! You ARE stuck in the "box" of BEALE PAPERS, ignoring ALL the subsequent research that had been done since 1885... PITY! Trying to solve the ciphers, like so MANY others. It is SUNDAY, time for your religion, belief, unbelief, disbelief, whatever; The Church of the Sacred Vault is NOW open at 7 am or so, with coffee provide by Rev. Taz (me... yes, I am ordained); NOT turning this into the RELIGION "child board"... LOL!

 

[bigscoop]

"You ARE stuck in the "box" of BEALE PAPERS, ignoring ALL the subsequent research that had been done since 1885... PITY!"

It's this past research that has, and is, keeping everyone, as you say, "stuck in the wrong box" (Bedford County). As for me believing the story is a hoax, I thought I cleared that up. So here, "The men in the "Beale" party were indeed real."

 

[bigscoop]

Source of proof Can't just say it you know?

I will put no exact details or names out here until which time that it is "unarguably conclusive." I will offer you this, "find the unknown author and his important business in Richmond" and the rest, with some of the information, knowledge, and research I'm certain you already possess, should lead you to the rest of the story fairly quickly. "Take your quality research beyond Bedford County!" The rest of the story is out there, not in Bedford.

 

[bigscoop]

"Important business in Richmond"

Think about this; Morriss only new Beale, none of the others, in fact there was never any mention of where these men came from except that he didn't know. In the influential circle and community that Morriss was said to be existing in, his Inn also attracting all the region's well-to-do visitors like flies, and yet nobody knew any of these thirty local mean of means?

The most important question in this entire mystery is, "How would that be possible? Unless......."

 

[Rebel - KGC]

bs, I agree with Franklin, that YOU have been somewhat "contra" in your posts; in order for EVERYONE to be "on the same page", here is the 1885 WARD PAMPHLET aka BEALE PAPERS, "JOB PRINT"...
http://bealesolved.tripod.com/id11.html It CLEARLY sezs BUFORDS, IN BEDFORD COUNTY, VIRGINIA on the FRONT page. ALSO... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beale_ciphers "CLICK" on images to ENLARGE.

 

[Kentucky Kache]

I think bigscoop is referring to the 30 or so men that was supposed to have gone out west with Beale, the ones who were to share in the riches.

 

[bigscoop]

I think bigscoop is referring to the 30 or so men that was supposed to have gone out west with Beale, the ones who were to share in the riches.

But nobody wants to leave the Bedford County area?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

WHAT are YOU asking, bs? Title page of BEALE PAPERS... CLEARLY sezs Bufords, Bedford County, VIRGINIA. END of "discussion, for me!

 

[bigscoop]

Ok, fine. Everyone involved with this mystery was from the Bedford County region. Keep looking for the same usual suspects there.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

HA! THE point being made is that "BT" (Beale Treasure) via the BEALE PAPERS is IN BEDFORD COUNTY, VIRGINIA... THAT is according to the PAMPHLET.

 

[bigscoop]

Try this scenario:
What if the Beale Pamphlet said the following;
“The thirty men who went out west knew exactly what they were doing before they departed, they had an appointed objective, and the treasure they returned with was not found by accident. Bedford was just the situational end result to an appointed objective. Bedford was simply intended to be the crossroad to that objective.” Now then, if the above was actually written somewhere in the pamphlet, would you still be confining your pamphlet research and list of suspects to only Bedford County area residents?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

HA! As long as the TITLE page of the BEALE PAPERS sezs "BUFORDS, IN BEDFORD COUNTY, VIRGINIA"... only IN Bedford County, VIRGINIA; ALL subsequent research since 1885 has indicated BEDFORD COUNTY, VIRGINA, or Lynchburg, VIRGINIA. FACTS! BEALE PAPERS has NO "what if"... HOWEVER! if YOU have info to share, DO so! TY! 8)

 

[bigscoop]

ALL subsequent research since 1885 has indicated BEDFORD COUNTY, VIRGINA, or Lynchburg, VIRGINIA. FACTS!

Exactly my point. And by the way, the above statement is false. But let's leave it all in the Bedford Box where you need it to be. You're obviously not going to even consider anything else. Good luck in your continued Bedford area efforts.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

True, I AM not gonna consider anything, other than Bedford County/Lynchburg, VIRGINIA... HOWEVER! YOU can indicate what ya, got, tho... let's "hear" it!