The Cipher Key/Keys?

[bigscoop]

In his letter of January 4th, 1822, TJB states, "The papers enclosed herewith will be unintelligible without the key...."

This is curious as the word "key" is used in the singular form, yet the DOI in the pamphlet, which was key to C2 does not work for the remaining ciphers. Surely if there had been more then one key TJB would have used the word, "keys" in the plural sense instead of "key" in the singular sense. I know there are those who believe they have solved the remaining ciphers, but sense these solutions have lead to no discoveries and most of them are spotty and unclear at best, one can only conclude that they are the wrong solutions, as C2 was indeed well written, direct, and easily understood. Given this, what are your thoughts on the remaining ciphers as far as the "key" or "keys" debate? Is there only one, or do you believe there has to be more then one?

[Rebel - KGC]

HA! Gonna go by the BEALE PAPERS, then? Going ONLY by the letters of Thom. J. Beale to Robert Morriss (YOUR "quote")... going by the cipher(s)? Going by the KEY/KEYS? I think the author is saying... the KEY is the DOI for SOUTHERN Independence, with the VATTEL'S LAW OF NATIONS... as it WAS in the "second year of the CONFEDERATE WAR". PERSONALLY, I don't think you need the Beale Code(s) or letters from Thom. J. Beale to Robert Morriss; I think that they are a distracting "RUSE", utilized by CSA spies/gov't to "hide" the REAL treasure... REBEL/Confederate "assets" ($$$$$$$$$ & weapons) in this area. Going to Sandusky, soon to get MORE info on Ferdinand C. Hutter & family... which included JB Ward, and "connections" with Thom. Jefferson; NOT included in the BEALE PAPERS!

[bigscoop]

HA! Gonna go by the BEALE PAPERS, then? Going ONLY by the letters of Thom. J. Beale to Robert Morriss (YOUR "quote")... going by the cipher(s)? Going by the KEY/KEYS? I think the author is saying... the KEY is the DOI for SOUTHERN Independence, with the VATTEL'S LAW OF NATIONS... as it WAS in the "second year of the CONFEDERATE WAR". PERSONALLY, I don't think you need the Beale Code(s) or letters from Thom. J. Beale to Robert Morriss; I think that they are a distracting "RUSE", utilized by CSA spies/gov't to "hide" the REAL treasure... REBEL/Confederate "assets" ($$$$$$$$$ & weapons) in this area. Going to Sandusky, soon to get MORE info on Ferdinand C. Hutter & family... which included JB Ward, and "connections" with Thom. Jefferson; NOT included in the BEALE PAPERS!

Have a nice, safe, trip.

[Rebel - KGC]

I will... only 5 miles away; will wait until after Father's Day weekend, as it is PROBABLY closed. Sandusky has Civil War Museum, so I will look VERY closely at the "artifacts", and look around Sandusky for "clues" in the house, walls, etc. The Hutter family once owned Poplar Forest, you know (Thom. Jefferson); BOTH Monticello & Poplar Forest has "symbolisms" from Thom. Jefferson's years in France, and "influence" from ROSICRUCIANS... seen in the "design" of THE LAWN/Academical Village/UVA; AND! EA Poe was a student at UVA in the "early days"... even been to HIS (EAP) room (Rm 13) at UVA; VERY small, yet... CONVENIENT!

[AU24K]

Possibly use the DOI and count letters/words backwards from the end to the front?

Best,
Scott

[Kentucky Kache]

Possibly use the DOI and count letters/words backwards from the end to the front?

Best,
Scott

Nope...doesn't work.

[AU24K]

Possibly use the DOI and count letters/words backwards from the end to the front?

Best,
Scott

Nope...doesn't work.

Kinda figured someone had already tried that.

Maybe other historic documents?
Seems like to know Beale would offer a clue to his knowledge and passions of possible keys.

Best,
Scott

[Kentucky Kache]

Possibly use the DOI and count letters/words backwards from the end to the front?

Best,
Scott

Nope...doesn't work.

Kinda figured someone had already tried that.

Maybe other historic documents?
Seems like to know Beale would offer a clue to his knowledge and passions of possible keys.

Best,
Scott

Yeah, I've thought about other documents/books of that period. I wouldn't be surprised if one of them holds the secrets.

[AU24K]

Possibly use the DOI and count letters/words backwards from the end to the front?

Best,
Scott

Nope...doesn't work.

Kinda figured someone had already tried that.

Maybe other historic documents?
Seems like to know Beale would offer a clue to his knowledge and passions of possible keys.

Best,
Scott

Yeah, I've thought about other documents/books of that period. I wouldn't be surprised if one of them holds the secrets.

Documents like the Magna Carta, the Constitution, a particular State's constitution/Charter, maybe something obscure.

Seems like a computer program could be written to plug in the code and run it through different documents looking for a "hit."

Best,
Scott

[AU24K]

What is the text of the deciphered second code?
I'd like to see the words used, grammar, sentence structure, etc. that Beale used.

Best,
Scott

[Kentucky Kache]

Possibly use the DOI and count letters/words backwards from the end to the front?

Best,
Scott

Nope...doesn't work.

Kinda figured someone had already tried that.

Maybe other historic documents?
Seems like to know Beale would offer a clue to his knowledge and passions of possible keys.

Best,
Scott

Yeah, I've thought about other documents/books of that period. I wouldn't be surprised if one of them holds the secrets.

Documents like the Magna Carta, the Constitution, a particular State's constitution/Charter, maybe something obscure.

Seems like a computer program could be written to plug in the code and run it through different documents looking for a "hit."

Best,
Scott

It probably has been done to an extent, I don't know.
I personally think there is a key somewhere that will unlock the codes. I don't know that it's not all a big hoax, as far as the treasure, but I do think the codes are saying something, just like the one that was deciphered.

[Kentucky Kache]

What is the text of the deciphered second code?
I'd like to see the words used, grammar, sentence structure, etc. that Beale used.

Best,
Scott

I have deposited in the county of Bedford, about four miles from Buford's, in an excavation or vault, six feet below the surface of the ground, the following articles, belonging jointly to the parties whose names are given in number three, herewith: The first deposit consisted of ten hundred and fourteen pounds of gold, and thirty-eight hundred and twelve pounds of silver, deposited Nov. eighteen nineteen. The second was made Dec. eighteen twenty-one, and consisted of nineteen hundred and seven pounds of gold, and twelve hundred and eighty-eight of silver; also jewels, obtained in St. Louis in exchange for silver to save transportation, and valued at thirteen thousand dollars. The above is securely packed in iron pots, with iron covers. The vault is roughly lined with stone, and the vessels rest on solid stone, and are covered with others. Paper number one describes the exact locality of the vault, so that no difficulty will be had in finding it.

[AU24K]

What is the text of the deciphered second code?
I'd like to see the words used, grammar, sentence structure, etc. that Beale used.

Best,
Scott

I have deposited in the county of Bedford, about four miles from Buford's, in an excavation or vault, six feet below the surface of the ground, the following articles, belonging jointly to the parties whose names are given in number three, herewith: The first deposit consisted of ten hundred and fourteen pounds of gold, and thirty-eight hundred and twelve pounds of silver, deposited Nov. eighteen nineteen. The second was made Dec. eighteen twenty-one, and consisted of nineteen hundred and seven pounds of gold, and twelve hundred and eighty-eight of silver; also jewels, obtained in St. Louis in exchange for silver to save transportation, and valued at thirteen thousand dollars. The above is securely packed in iron pots, with iron covers. The vault is roughly lined with stone, and the vessels rest on solid stone, and are covered with others. Paper number one describes the exact locality of the vault, so that no difficulty will be had in finding it.

And this was deciphered from the DOI?
I don't remember anything about St. Louis in the DOI...
Maybe I'm missing something.

BTW, thanks Kentucky!

Best,
Scott

[Kentucky Kache]

The first number in the code is 115. The 115th word in the Declaration of Independence is "instituted." Use the first letter of that word - "I" and keep doing that until you get the plain text.

[AU24K]

The first number in the code is 115. The 115th word in the Declaration of Independence is "instituted." Use the first letter of that word - "I" and keep doing that until you get the plain text.

Oh, I see.
Is there any indication for word breaks, punctuation, etc.?

Best,
Scot

[Kentucky Kache]

The first number in the code is 115. The 115th word in the Declaration of Independence is "instituted." Use the first letter of that word - "I" and keep doing that until you get the plain text.

Oh, I see.
Is there any indication for word breaks, punctuation, etc.?

Best,
Scot

None that I'm aware of.

[Rebel - KGC]

TV show, B.M. DECODED will use DOI for VARIOUS "ciphers" on Oct. 5 at 10 pm/est, etc. SHOULD be " "entertaining"... Beale Ciphers WILL be "considered".

[fetcher]

I've been looking over this forum for a while now, and thought I might have an opinion on this treasure. Most treasures may go unsolved forever, but we're talking about 4 mile radius, if it's truly there.

If some of you had the time and money.... which I don't, but let's say we have $15,000 (pilot costs, etc )......

Step 1. - Get permission of the land owners of a circle of 4 miles surrounding Bufords tavern.
Step 2. - Hire a plane with ground penetrating radar equipment to do a fly over of the tavern. After all, it's supposedly 6 feet underground, in a vault, which would show on radar. ( There is one based out of Austrailia for hire )
Step 3. - Dig

We're talking over $70 million.



Nice to fantasize!

[bigscoop]

What I believe today, but didn't/couldn't say during filming:

Morriss was a contingency plan, an added safeguard in the event that something went badly wrong during the two pre-arranged transfers. However, the entire affair was carried out successfully without any problems so his services were never required, which is why Morriss never heard from Beale or his partners again. Some of the names were included in the Pamphlet for a reason, such as Chief Justice Marshall, the chief justice that presided over an important court case filed by the state of Maryland that desired to block the establishment of a new Federal Banking system (if you get a chance you should research this court case.) By 1885 the two deposits in the Beale Papers were already providing valuable service all over the world through the form of trust and escrow accounts that provided grant money. The unknown author of the Beale Papers was well aware of this at the time of the pamphlet's publishing. This hidden trust & grant money eventually financed many new advances in areas such as medicine, technology, human rights, etc.

[Rebel - KGC]

"Scoop" has left the area; PROBABLY went to the beach, with his tongue hanging out... since it will be an EARLY Spring! ANYWAY... he MAY come back "refreshed"...