St Louis and the year 1821?!?!?!?!????

[bigscoop]

There are a few records/accounts of traders in the southwest trading for gold/silver, (1817 - 1822) and other accounts of large quantities of gold/silver passing through the region. What I find most fascinating is the mix of the influential and prominent with the somewhat shady and questionable. Not much different then today when you think about it.

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[Rebel - KGC]

HA! Show what ya got from "yesterday"... watch out for da CRABS! (WINK)

[tat2guy]

Yes alot of big politicians ended up heading southwest. Even some with privateer connxions.

[Rebel - KGC]

(HUH?) WHO? (DUNNO)

[tat2guy]

One big one would be Edward Livingston. Checkout the sandel he went thru. He came into alot of money in New Orleans afterwards. Must have been the Mullato clientele. I think Im onto a hogh profile banker of the time too, but we'll see.

HH Jay

[bigscoop]

One big one would be Edward Livingston. Checkout the sandel he went thru. He came into alot of money in New Orleans afterwards. Must have been the Mullato clientele. I think Im onto a hogh profile banker of the time too, but we'll see.

HH Jay

It's all pretty darn amazing, ain't it.

[Rebel - KGC]

(WINK) Edward Livingston? "Tat", tell us what cha got... (SHADES ON...)

[tat2guy]

Livingston while in the northeast takes the blame when one of those working with him embezzles (hope thats spelled right) $44k. Livingston is fined $100k by our goverment. He leaves the northeast headed for none other then New Orleans. He opens a new law firm about 1805, between 1820 and 1825 he repays the goverment in full with interest. Please note the time of the repayment. Also Livingston most famous client was Jean Lafitte.

My point is pretty simple. Thats alot of money to make to repay Uncle Sam especially if you took the fall for someone else.

Also a great question come from this. Did this payment have anything todo with the fall of Lafittes Galveston commune

HH Jay

[bigscoop]

Livingston while in the northeast takes the blame when one of those working with him embezzles (hope thats spelled right) $44k. Livingston is fined $100k by our goverment. He leaves the northeast headed for none other then New Orleans. He opens a new law firm about 1805, between 1820 and 1825 he repays the goverment in full with interest. Please note the time of the repayment. Also Livingston most famous client was Jean Lafitte.

My point is pretty simple. Thats alot of money to make to repay Uncle Sam especially if you took the fall for someone else.

Also a great question come from this. Did this payment have anything todo with the fall of Lafittes Galveston commune

HH Jay

...."excellent!"

[Rebel - KGC]

(SMILE) OK, "Tat"... THANKS! I also read about him on wiki; he was messed up in the Jefferson/Burr controversy. (WINK)

[tat2guy]

So the burning question is did Livingston or Lafitte payoff uncle sam

[Rebel - KGC]

LOL! Is THAT the "burning question"? YOUR point being...? (DUNNO)

[bigscoop]

“My brother Pierre and I had never thought that those for whom we had done so much at the time of the birth of a new nation would want to oust us from a foreign territory. Texas was not American territory; it still belonged to Spain, and it seemed that it was paying a foreign nation well to protect its territories and sea commerce. I had always rather worried about an invasion from Spain rather than an abandonment and destruction on part of Washington”

“My treasures that I had to burn will be avenged by the fifth generation of those aggressive birds of prey that chased me away.”

In the above entry Laffite is speaking in terms of the French role in the birth of a new nation. The “aggressive birds of prey” is in reference to the American Eagle.

“Leaving behind markings and written annals for progress so as to lighten burdens for the good and the best is a great blessing to others and to generations to come.”

This is what is really at the heart of the Beale Papers. It isn’t about treasure, but rather it is about the exposing of the corruptions of a government and the greed that was allowed to overtake the principles of that “most sacred of all documents”, the DOI.

The Livingston/Laffite relationship Tat is referring to may play very heavily in the overall scope of things.

[Justintime]

What would be the fith gen.

[Rebel - KGC]

(WINK) Read the 5th Generation by Brad Andrews; it is "on-line" & has to do with Lafitte "theory". (SMILE)

[Justintime]

When,is the 5th gen. When would be first gen.

[bigscoop]

When,is the 5th gen. When would be first gen.

First generation = 1776, the recognized birth of the nation.
Fifth Generation = using dictionaries from the time period, a generation was generally defined as being between 33- 35 years. If you multiply these amounts by 5 and add that number to 1776 you'll arrive at the mid 1940's, or the "exact" period when the Laffite Memoirs were revealed/released.

As a side note, both Adams and Jefferson died on July 4th, 1826. It was during this same period that Jean and his brother met and decided to give up "the cause".

And, as ironic as it might appear to be, if you look at the dates of the Beale deposits and then compare those dates to the signing and ratification dates of the Adams Onis Treaty you'll notice that both deposits fall "exactly" 9 & 10 months in advance of the signing and ratification dates. You'll also notice that the dates of Beale's visits to Morriss fall "exactly" 11 months from these same singing and ratification dates. The big key here is this, the singing and ratification of the Adam's Onis Treaty not only ended the Laffites stay in the disputed territory and their smuggling empire, but the treaty also ended their cause and was seen by them as being a huge trampling over of the principles within that, "most sacred of all documents". In 1823 Monroe signed the Monroe doctrine, and with a very intended purposeand direct message aimed at the floundering French cause. And that cause? It was to establish a new France within the boundaries of the United states, and that cause had been pursued since 1776. The last hope for the French was Florida...(read the Monroe Doctrine.)

Added just for the heck of it:

“I recommended to Mr. Hall, Mr. Campbell, Mr. Sherman, and those of Bolivar to distribute the gold to the indicated places. My last secret words to Mr. Hall were to say that my mission would be to the south, to the east, then to the north. The majority of my personal valuables and my documents had been sent to Charleston, Baltimore, and Philadelphia.” (Bolivar was located on the opposite side of Galveston Bay to the east). Laffite was fully aware of the pending signing and ratification of the Adams OnisTreaty and he had plenty of time to prepare and he also had the means to pull it off.

”I have described my past; the missions that I accomplished, my true convictions. The greatest part of my wealth has been sacrificed so that others can do good work, all of it without a trace, without leaving my name.

I do not hesitate from the beginning to be positive in my writings and my journal. I fervently believe all future events can be guided with precision and certainty.

If God wishes to love the fifth generation to come, he will unveil the intentions and the spirit of the dead. And with my entire help!”

The Beale Papers are all about the abuse and trampling over of the principles in the DOI. “Unveiling the intentions and spirit of the dead” is in reference to the signers of the DOI and the principles that are contained in the DOI. “Guiding all future events with precision and certainty” is in reference to what has been left behind for future generations. The treaties with Great Britain & Spain were seen as being acts that traded in the principles of the DOI in the name of greed at the highest level. If you think not, then simply examine who our two biggest allies are today…..”Great Britain & Spain”.

"And with my entire help!" = If you want proof of all of this corruption then simply find those “vaults” containing that proof.

[Justintime]

Thanks scoop for the info going to read. There was so much going on in the,shadows,and still goes on today. Time will tell hope for the best,playing to the end.

[Rebel - KGC]

DUNNO, Sounds MORE like the Yanks vs the REBS of the CONFEDERATE WAR; with Great Britain & France being "for the SOUTHERN INDEPENDENCE"; they BOTH loaned $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to CSA! (WINK)

[tat2guy]

Just goes to show many politicians, even back at the birth of our nation were influenced by some shadey characters. ie; Livingston falls to corruption and fights his way back to wealth. But, and the is a big butt, from an english family and well educated he writes the Louisianna civil code. Livingston's civil code is based on none other then Napoleans codes. So even as enemies (french and the brits) they could be brought to beleive in the french beleifs. Im looking at some other people that may have turned to the french beleifs too. But Ill reveal that soon.

HH Jay