It was in the 2nd year of the CONFEDERATE WAR...

[bigscoop]

They had ties to Bedford county, except for CSA Gen Jackson, who once taught at VMI (reference to Hunter's Raid?), and died in the 2nd year of the Confederate War.
...but my speculation is no different than you connecting Lafitte to the Beale treasure because the names Ward and Sherman appear in Lafitte's memoirs.

You guys keep bringing up "what I use to think" in the face of what I'm saying that I believe today. So let me clear that up....."Given what I know today and the complete lack of any supporting evidence to it being anything else, I believe it was a simple dime novel designed to deceive and to make a quick buck." I wish there was something to give me reason to cling to the same hope that you guys are still clinging to but very clearly there isn't, and never has been. And I'm pretty confident that nothing new is going to surface in the future and that there is a good reason for it. The future is just going to continue to see more of the same as the legend continues to be fed by pure speculation, unfounded claims, increased exposure, and more hearsay. But once all this smoke clears there's just nothing there in support of any of it.

 

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[Rebel - KGC]

You guys keep bringing up "what I use to think" in the face of what I'm saying that I believe today. So let me clear that up....."Given what I know today and the complete lack of any supporting evidence to it being anything else, I believe it was a simple dime novel designed to deceive and to make a quick buck." I wish there was something to give me reason to cling to the same hope that you guys are still clinging to but very clearly there isn't, and never has been. And I'm pretty confident that nothing new is going to surface in the future and that there is a good reason for it. The future is just going to continue to see more of the same as the legend continues to be fed by pure speculation, unfounded claims, increased exposure, and more hearsay. But once all this smoke clears there's just nothing there in support of any of it.

"Cling to"...? LOL! OUR business, and NONE of your "biz". SIMPLE "Dime Store Novel" that is VERY complex...

 

[bigscoop]

"Cling to"...? LOL! OUR business, and NONE of your "biz". SIMPLE "Dime Store Novel" that is VERY complex...

Just presenting the facts based on the evidence, or complete lack of it, so it's only complex if men continue to make it so without any supporting evidence whatsoever. The more complex these far reaching scenarios become the more unlikely and less supported they become. What is needed is a solid piece of evidence that lends some measure of credibility to the tale. Until then....."Dime novel."

 

[Rebel - KGC]

The Jackson referred to in the BP was General Andrew Jackson not CSA General Stonewall Jackson. Just thought you should know.

I will be getting out to find some of the information that is needed to verify the Beale Treasure this summer. Everyone hang in there and keep looking for facts.

HH! GOOD LUCK!

 

[ECS]

Hard to say, could be they were used just to bring more credibility to the story? But if they were used for any other reason then one has to realize that these names were also prominent back in the described time period of 1817-1822...

You know, producing an "authentic tale" that is actually fiction might also explain why the unknown author used an agent, to hide the liability of the lie. Have you considered this possibility?

While most of the names mentioned in the Beale Papers had long since passed away by the time of the 1885 publication, one was alive and well, and a highly known successful businessman in Lynchberg.
"His private residence(Morriss),the house now owned and occupied by Max Guggenheimer,Esq, at the head of Main Street..."-THE BEALE PAPERS.
Max Guggenheimer, a Jewish businessman, servered in the CSA 11th Virginia Army, had a dry goods store on 6th and Main in Lynchberg, invested in two shoe companies, and founded the Lynchberg Cotton Mill.
Guggenheimer, and other Jewish businessmen, held meetings at Lynchberg's Odd Fellows Hall, and he passed away in 1912.
The inclusion of his name in the Beale tale WAS purposeful by the "unknown author".

 

[Rebel - KGC]

While most of the names mentioned in the Beale Papers had long since passed away by the time of the 1885 publication, one was alive and well, and a highly known successful businessman in Lynchberg.
"His private residence(Morriss),the house now owned and occupied by Max Guggenheimer,Esq, at the head of Main Street..."-THE BEALE PAPERS.
Max Guggenheimer, a Jewish businessman, servered in the CSA 11th Virginia Army, had a dry goods store on 6th and Main in Lyncherberg, invested in two shoe companies, and founded the Lynchberg Cotton Mill.
Guggenheimer, and other Jewish businessmen, held meetings at Lynchberg's Odd Fellows Hall, and he passed away in 1912.
The inclusion of his name in the Beale tale WAS purposeful by the "unknown author".

HA! I just talked to Max's grandson/great grandson last night; we had talked previously about CSA Max (who was wounded in the CONFEDERATE WAR, was with the Lynchburg Home Guard)... AND! VERY wealthy business man, after the CONFEDERATE WAR. Jewish, FREEMASON... PROBABLY knew the Cabala/Kabbala. Buried in a Christian Cemetery; "Devil wouldn't look for a Jew in a Christian Cemetery" was his reply, as to why... LOL!

 

[bigscoop]

While most of the names mentioned in the Beale Papers had long since passed away by the time of the 1885 publication, one was alive and well, and a highly known successful businessman in Lynchberg.
"His private residence(Morriss),the house now owned and occupied by Max Guggenheimer,Esq, at the head of Main Street..."-THE BEALE PAPERS.
Max Guggenheimer, a Jewish businessman, servered in the CSA 11th Virginia Army, had a dry goods store on 6th and Main in Lyncherberg, invested in two shoe companies, and founded the Lynchberg Cotton Mill.
Guggenheimer, and other Jewish businessmen, held meetings at Lynchberg's Odd Fellows Hall, and he passed away in 1912.
The inclusion of his name in the Beale tale WAS purposeful by the "unknown author".

Well, folks can continue to create all kinds of unsupported scenarios in their heads, just as I have done in the past, but the bottom line is that there is absolutely nothing to suggest that the tale was anything more then a simple dime novel. What we want to believe and what we convince ourselves to believe means nothing and holds no water whatsoever without that missing supporting evidence. At this point it would take something pretty solid to lead me to believe that the story was anything other then a simple dime novel as the case for a dime novel is extremely strong in light of all the missing evidence to it being anything else. But no doubt folks will continue to make more of the tale then what is there, just as with all legends. Again, many-many fictional tales have maintained the names and general histories of real individuals but because this tale is so well crafted and promises a treasure then there must be another reason why this author has done it. Right? So all you need to do is to produce that supporting evidence, which hasn't been produced in 130 years of research by thousand of people with some of those being the best in the game. Good luck!

No, I think there is a perfectly simple explanation as to why no such evidence has ever been found and also why "the key" only produces the solution for "the bait" to the tale and not the remaining ciphers, contrary to what the key was said to be able to accomplish. When you add this up to all of the other mistakes in the pamphlet not a chance that the story is authentic or accurate to the described events.

Look at the numbering of the ciphers....a feat that was suppose to have already been done by Beale but is later described as having been done by the author according to their length. And this is just one such error of several. Everything points to a dime novel with no truth to the tale whatsoever. Heck, the story itself isn't even credible when we really start to isolate the discrepancies. And yet true believers are always going to believe, even with the presence of these discrepancies and the total lack of the required evidence. It's why legends continue to thrive.

 

[ECS]

... Again, many-many fictional tales have maintained the names and general histories of real individuals but because this tale is so well crafted and promises a treasure then there must be another reason why this author has done it. Right? ...

No, I think there is a perfectly simple explanation as to why no such evidence has ever been found and also why "the key" only produces the solution for "the bait" to the tale and not the remaining ciphers, contrary to what the key was said to be able to accomplish. When you add this up to all of the other mistakes in the pamphlet not a chance that the story is authentic or accurate to the described events...

Heck, the story itself isn't even credible when we really start to isolate the discrepancies...

But for the mention of Max Guggenheimer, who was alive and a successful businessman in Lynchberg when the Beale Papers were published and advertised for sale in Lynchberg.
Did he have knowledge of what was behind the story of the Beale Papers- either events of or the pamphlets creation?

 

[bigscoop]

But for the mention of Max Guggenheimer, who was alive and a successful businessman in Lynchberg when the Beale Papers were published and advertised for sale in Lynchberg.
Did he have knowledge of what was behind the story of the Beale Papers- either events of or the pamphlets creation?

So what, he was alive.....? What's the huge significance of that? I don't see any. It's not like the author accused him of anything. And no, there is absolutely no surviving evidence to the Beale Pamphlet being anything else other then a simple dime novel. No ciphers, no letters, no iron box. No proof that any of it ever existed or that the story has credible roots credible in any way. If it was more then just a dime novel, with so many skilled people having searched, and still searching, some evidence to the contrary would have turned up by now. The mention of Guggenheimer means nothing unless you simply will it to be so.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Well, folks can continue to create all kinds of unsupported scenarios in their heads, just as I have done in the past, but the bottom line is that there is absolutely nothing to suggest that the tale was anything more then a simple dime novel. What we want to believe and what we convince ourselves to believe means nothing and holds no water whatsoever without that missing supporting evidence. At this point it would take something pretty solid to lead me to believe that the story was anything other then a simple dime novel as the case for a dime novel is extremely strong in light of all the missing evidence to it being anything else. But no doubt folks will continue to make more of the tale then what is there, just as with all legends. Again, many-many fictional tales have maintained the names and general histories of real individuals but because this tale is so well crafted and promises a treasure then there must be another reason why this author has done it. Right? So all you need to do is to produce that supporting evidence, which hasn't been produced in 130 years of research by thousand of people with some of those being the best in the game. Good luck!

No, I think there is a perfectly simple explanation as to why no such evidence has ever been found and also why "the key" only produces the solution for "the bait" to the tale and not the remaining ciphers, contrary to what the key was said to be able to accomplish. When you add this up to all of the other mistakes in the pamphlet not a chance that the story is authentic or accurate to the described events.

Look at the numbering of the ciphers....a feat that was suppose to have already been done by Beale but is later described as having been done by the author according to their length. And this is just one such error of several. Everything points to a dime novel with no truth to the tale whatsoever. Heck, the story itself isn't even credible when we really start to isolate the discrepancies. And yet true believers are always going to believe, even with the presence of these discrepancies and the total lack of the required evidence. It's why legends continue to thrive.

See NEW "thread"... tell us MORE!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

But for the mention of Max Guggenheimer, who was alive and a successful businessman in Lynchberg when the Beale Papers were published and advertised for sale in Lynchberg.
Did he have knowledge of what was behind the story of the Beale Papers- either events of or the pamphlets creation?

I think Max was ONE of the KEY "players", and on the INNER CIRCLE/"Committee"; I ALSO think he profited PERSONALLY from the "Beale" Treasure/CSA Treasure - Lynchburg, Va. "section". Max had a WONDERFUL "sense of Humor" & was well-liked by his fellow FreeMasons; buried in Lynchburg, Va., I need to check out his grave-site, again. MAY be "clues" on his head-stone... MORE about Max, LATER.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

NO head-stone; slab-stone with word "Sholum"; buried in Presbysterian Cemetery on Grace Street & had a HUGE house on Grace Street, here in Lynchburg, Va. Hmmm...

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Did "CSA" Max know/use Cabala/Kabbalah in "coding"...? Looking into it...

In NUMBERS!

 

[Eldo]

Well, folks can continue to create all kinds of unsupported scenarios in their heads, just as I have done in the past, but the bottom line is that there is absolutely nothing to suggest that the tale was anything more then a simple dime novel. What we want to believe and what we convince ourselves to believe means nothing and holds no water whatsoever without that missing supporting evidence. At this point it would take something pretty solid to lead me to believe that the story was anything other then a simple dime novel as the case for a dime novel is extremely strong in light of all the missing evidence to it being anything else. But no doubt folks will continue to make more of the tale then what is there, just as with all legends. Again, many-many fictional tales have maintained the names and general histories of real individuals but because this tale is so well crafted and promises a treasure then there must be another reason why this author has done it. Right? So all you need to do is to produce that supporting evidence, which hasn't been produced in 130 years of research by thousand of people with some of those being the best in the game. Good luck!

No, I think there is a perfectly simple explanation as to why no such evidence has ever been found and also why "the key" only produces the solution for "the bait" to the tale and not the remaining ciphers, contrary to what the key was said to be able to accomplish. When you add this up to all of the other mistakes in the pamphlet not a chance that the story is authentic or accurate to the described events.

Look at the numbering of the ciphers....a feat that was suppose to have already been done by Beale but is later described as having been done by the author according to their length. And this is just one such error of several. Everything points to a dime novel with no truth to the tale whatsoever. Heck, the story itself isn't even credible when we really start to isolate the discrepancies. And yet true believers are always going to believe, even with the presence of these discrepancies and the total lack of the required evidence. It's why legends continue to thrive.

Boo Hoo BigScoo

Written just for You....to ponder .....Again
Beale ciphers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Check the section titled Latest Developments and Discoveries........You can watch it on TV this summer.

 

[ECS]

Boo Hoo BigScoo

Written just for You....to ponder .....Again
Beale ciphers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Check the section titled Latest Developments and Discoveries........You can watch it on TV this summer...

Eldo, did you and Justintime add this Wikipedia?

 

[Eldo]

I arranged it after having a few reviews of the info to verify this all.

What's your thoughts.....in the shop working so forgive me if I am slow to respond

 

[releventchair]

Wow! that's some article there. Lot's of trails and sleuthing.
Agreed with the branding not being old. Ear marks/cuts/bits ect. were more common, to my knowledge anyway.

 

[Eldo]

Wow! that's some article there. Lot's of trails and sleuthing.
Agreed with the branding not being old. Ear marks/cuts/bits ect. were more common, to my knowledge anyway.

Recognize the initials TJB?

This is the 8 Bar n Bar P brand, found in AZ near the superstitions.....the left side of this brand has been weathered off, as the J normally swoops around and makes a horizontal wavy line across the end of the curve
View attachment 1140438

 

[ECS]

Recognize the initials TJB?

This is the 8 Bar n Bar P brand, found in AZ near the superstitions...

Another interesting theory that has NO direct connection to the writing, publishing, and Lynchberg advertising for sale of Ward's 1885 Beale Papers.

 

[releventchair]

Recognize the initials TJB?

This is the 8 Bar n Bar P brand, found in AZ near the superstitions.....the left side of this brand has been weathered off, as the J normally swoops around and makes a horizontal wavy line across the end of the curve
View attachment 1140438

Brands registered are usually read from left to right. That would make your pic. JTB.(?) Ear cuts are shown as well for the same.

Spanish prior to Euro cattle operations were those ear cuts being more common than branding I mentioned earlier.
https://books.google.com/books?id=o...EwAg#v=onepage&q=az. cattle brand JTB&f=false