Does anyone know where Mr Hazelwood of the Hart papers got the Beale codes?

[kenmor]

The reason I asked this question is ,because Clayton Hart went to get a pamphlet(Thereupon, Clayton journeyed to Lynchburg, Va. , 50 miles east of Roanoke, secured a copy of the printed pamphlet, and redoubled his efforts to find a solution.)

Clayton already had copies from MR. HAZELWOOD,Mayby from the originals?

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[Franklin]

Newton Hazelwood's mother was an Otey. His copy came from the iron box that Robert Morriss had been entrusted with. The Otey family obtained the iron box from James Beverly Ward's wife--------she was an Otey. That is your connections of the iron box from Robert Morriss to Newton Hazelwood.

[kenmor]

Franklin thank you for clearing that up,so now I know there is a legitimate copy .(BIG SMILE)....Ken

[bigscoop]

Do a genealogy search of the Hart's family tree....."prior to the date of the publication of the pamphlet"....you'll find something very interesting there that will eventually explain why the Hart brothers really became interested in the Beale ciphers.

[Rebel - KGC]

(DUNNO) ALL I have is what is in the HART PAPERS (ALL he had were the FIGURES (CIPHERS)... NOT the "STORY"; "Scoop", NOT sure what YOU are alluding to... tell us MORE! (WINK)

[Rebel - KGC]

(SMILE) Going back to the HART PAPERS... Treasure "site" is indicated by "The same way the boss man (TJB) went on his trip (from Buford's) the morning before. He's talking to the two men in front, and pointing to the Peaks of Otter (aka Twin Peaks)." This is taken from HART PAPERS @ http://bealesolved,tripod.com/id10.html HART PAPERS by George Hart, Sr. Jan. 1, 1952. THEN, Pauline wrote HER book, GOLD IN THE BLUE RIDGE in 1964. (WINK)

[bigscoop]

Do the search. I think you'll find that the Hart's most likely had prior knowledge of the Beale story before it was published.

[Rebel - KGC]

1885? LOL! If YOU already have the "answer"... YOU provide "proof". (CHEESY GRIN)

[bigscoop]

Any mushrooms yet?

[Kenjmor2006]

BIGSCOOP I am thinking you might be right,mayby the codes mr hazelwood had was before the phamplet?(SMILE)

[Kenjmor2006]

By the way if that was the Beale party that had the tendons sliced and left to die staked and bound found by Doc Noss chances are ,then the gold bars Doc found was the gold from Beale party,if that is true then the gold bars would be mostly copper with .05% gold content,that wuld mean the Beale treasure would be less than thought(SMILE)....Ken

[bigscoop]

From what I've found/researched......those codes were likely made long before the 1885 pamphlet, like 65 - 70 years before the pamphlet. Don't get too caught up in all the local writing about the history of the iron box, etc. Remember, none of these claimants can prove they ever saw the all-important iron box or its contents, and there's an obvious reason for that. The Hart's didn't simply become infatuated with the Beale codes because of the pamphlet publication. Remember also, it was the Harts that gave Beale the middle name of Jefferson, prior to this it was simply TJB, or Thomas Beale, and this last name is spelled correctly.

[Rebel - KGC]

K2006: If tendons were still on those "bones", DOUBT if it was the Beale party... DUNNO.
Scoop: Tell us MORE about your "research"; "local writings" are VERY important (Peter Viemeister (RIP) for example, Pauline Innis - Roanoke as another example... SMIRKING). You may well be correct about the Hart's use as JEFFERSON as TJB' middle name; may be an "e" written like an "L" OR... simply a "code" to look in Thomas Jefferson National Forest, DUNNO. (WINK)

[bigscoop]

Again, if any of these people ever had their hands on that all-important box and it's contents, copies and photographic proof would exist, but that proof simply isn't there, and there's a reason for that. Knowing how important it was/is, if you got your hands on that box and it's contents today you would certainly document it by every means possible. These people were supposedly credible writer's of factual history, if so, don't think for a minute that they would not have recognized the importance of, "provenance", especially true in the case of actually having the iron box and it's contents in hand. Simply put, they never actually saw the box or the contents. Period.

[Rebel - KGC]

(SMIRKING...) You ARE stuck in the BOX of the BP (Beale Papers); LOL! Why I like the HART PAPERS... NO box to "deal with"! I go by the directions provided in the guise of a "psychic/medium story"; MOST ppl would be/are "turned off" by that portion of the HART PAPERS... BUT! I DUNNO! MAY BE of GREAT "interest", for "on-the-ground work"! (WINK)

[bigscoop]

Like I said before, more then likely (almost a certainty) the Harts knew about the Beale story and then they went looking for the pamphlet and info. There is only one way this would have been possible.......so, do the genealogy search I spoke of earlier and you will eventually come across that very possibility.

[Rebel - KGC]

(SMIRKING...) NAW, costs $$$; YOU tell us, if ya know! (WINK)

[Rebel - KGC]

OK... MORE, later.

[ECS]

Newton Hazelwood's mother was an Otey. His copy came from the iron box that Robert Morriss had been entrusted with. The Otey family obtained the iron box from James Beverly Ward's wife--------she was an Otey. That is your connections of the iron box from Robert Morriss to Newton Hazelwood.

Is this the "unknown party" that J B Ward gave the story,box,and ciphers in the 2nd year of the Confederate War?Ward's wife? When did she give it to Hazelwood?
Can this be documented?
...or is this lore based on hearsay?

[Rebel - KGC]

Is this the "unknown party" that J B Ward gave the story,box,and ciphers in the 2nd year of the Confederate War?Ward's wife? When did she give it to Hazelwood?
Can this be documented?
...or is this lore based on hearsay?

Going by THE HART PAPER(S)... I think N. Hazlewood (ex-CSA Sgt) had the CIPHERS from his CONFEDERATE WAR experience; looking into seeing if he knew the Hutter Bros (I think he did); many of 'em went to the SAME church, here in Lynchburg, Va. & were members of either Marshall Lodge (1793) or Hill City Lodge (1859) of FreeMasons.