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  1. #1
    Kentucky Kache

    Reason to believe?

    I can't say if the Beale story is true, or false, but there is one thing that makes me think the story could actually be true. The story which made Beale a hero was publicized by J.B. Ward. Ward's grandfather was shot by Thomas Beale in a duel. Would Ward have told a fictional story, or had anything to do with a fictional story, that glorified the man who had shot his grandfather?

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  3. #2
    Charter Member

    Jun 2007
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    (WINK) HA! That "shot" (as in a duel), was done by Thomas Beale, SR. in Fincastle, Va; TB, Sr. LATER went on down to New Orleans, and TB, Jr. later followed him down there. MEANWHILE, JB Risque moved to Lynchburg, Va.; had a HUGE farm/plantation near New London, Va., south of and to the east of Poplar Forest (TJ). JB Risque was the grandfather of JB Ward (Beale Papers) and the Hutter Bros of the CONFEDERATE WAR; the cousins played on grand daddy's farm/plantation.
    JB Ward (Beale Papers) is stated by historical records here in Lynchburg VIRGINIA to have been buried there in the Risque family cemetery on that plantation/farm... looking for it BUT! VERY developed area now... (DUNNO)
    Last edited by Rebel - KGC; May 23, 2012 at 06:02 AM.

  4. #3
    Kentucky Kache
    Quote Originally Posted by Rebel - KGC View Post
    (WINK) HA! That "shot" (as in a duel), was done by Thomas Beale, SR. in Fincastle, Va; TB, Sr. LATER went on down to New Orleans, and TB, Jr. later followed him down there. MEANWHILE, JB Risque moved to Lynchburg, Va.; had a HUGE farm/plantation near New London, Va., south of and to the east of Poplar Forest (TJ). JB Risque was the grandfather of JB Ward (Beale Papers) and the Hutter Bros of the CONFEDERATE WAR; the cousins played on grand daddy's farm/plantation.
    JB Ward (Beale Papers) is stated by historical records here in Lynchburg VIRGINIA to have been buried there in the Risque family cemetery on that plantation/farm... looking for it BUT! VERY developed area now... (DUNNO)
    Yes, but whether it was Sr., or JR., I don't think Ward would have made him the hero if the story was made up. He could have used any character he wanted.

  5. #4
    Charter Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kentucky Kache View Post
    Yes, but whether it was Sr., or JR., I don't think Ward would have made him the hero if the story was made up. He could have used any character he wanted.
    As it is told......Ward didn't write the Beale Papers......he was just the agent for an unknown author. So if the story is true then someone else wrote the Beale Papers, not Ward.
    "The key to finding gold is finding places where it can be accessed."

  6. #5
    Kentucky Kache
    Quote Originally Posted by bigscoop View Post
    As it is told......Ward didn't write the Beale Papers......he was just the agent for an unknown author. So if the story is true then someone else wrote the Beale Papers, not Ward.
    But I'm wondering if he would even have been willing to be the agent for such a story, if it were fiction. Maybe he acttually believed it to be true, who knows.
    I just think it would take something pretty special to cause me to brag on the man (or his son) who shot my grandfather.

  7. #6
    Charter Member

    Jun 2007
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    (WINK) HA! CONFEDERATE WAR "theory" indicate that Ferdinand Hutter wrote the BEALE PAPERS, released in 1885. JB Risque was Hutter's AND JB Ward's GRANDFATHER! SO! WHY give a TJB publicity? I think it has NOTHING to do with the duel; just a name picked out, maybe to "pick on" Thomas Beale, Sr./Jr. (DUNNO)
    Last edited by Rebel - KGC; May 23, 2012 at 08:02 AM.

  8. #7
    Kentucky Kache
    Quote Originally Posted by Rebel - KGC View Post
    (WINK) HA! CONFEDERATE WAR "theory" indicate that Ferdinand Hutter wrote the BEALE PAPERS, released in 1885. JB Risque was Hutter's AND JB Ward's GRANDFATHER! SO! WHY give a TJB publicity? I think it has NOTHING to do with the duel; just a name picked out, maybe to "pick on" Thomas Beale, Sr./Jr. (DUNNO)
    The story glorifies Thomas Beal. "His form was symmetrical, and gave evidence of unusual strength and activity..." "...I thought him the handsomest man I had ever seen." "...he was a model of manly beauty, favored by the ladies and envied by men." And oh by the way, he shot my grandfather.

  9. #8
    Franklin
    "I thought him the handsomest man I had ever seen""...he was a model of manly beauty, favored by the ladies and envied by men." Why don't you pay attention to these words? Have you ever heard a man describe another man in this manner? A WOMAN wrote the "Beale Pamphlet" Most likely James Beverly Ward's wife.

    And Rebel, I don't believe TJB SR would have had a duel with James Beverly Risque over Julia Hancock. The younger TJB fits the bill as he was young and so was Julia. She married Governor William Clark when she was 17 years old.
    Last edited by Franklin; May 23, 2012 at 08:47 AM.

  10. #9
    Kentucky Kache
    Quote Originally Posted by Franklin View Post
    "I thought him the handsomest man I had ever seen""...he was a model of manly beauty, favored by the ladies and envied by men." Why don't you pay attention to these words? Have you ever heard a man describe another man in this manner? A WOMAN wrote the "Beale Pamphlet" Most likely James Beverly Ward's wife.

    And Rebel, I don't believe TJB SR would have had a duel with James Beverly Risque over Julia Hancock. The younger TJB fits the bill as he was young and so was Julia. She married Governor William Clark when she was 17 years old.
    Yes, it sounds like other descriptions I have read in older writings. It's the way they talked back then, before queers took over the world.
    But even if it had been Ward's wife who wrote it, I don't think she would have made up all that about the man who shot her husbands grandfather.
    Last edited by Kentucky Kache; May 23, 2012 at 09:03 AM.

  11. #10
    Charter Member
    us
    http://www.etsy.com/shop/LagoonRiver

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    An older blue Excal with connector, remote, Skullie headphones, and various coils. Got rid of the rest of my machines.
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    If this general area of the story is true, then the real author had, "important business in Richmond". Also, there is a great deal of confusion in regards to Thomas Beale that is in the process of being worked out....and hopefully with some compelling evidence/proof, but still too early to know with 100% certainty just yet. However, there may be legal documents that I have been trying to access for quite some time that will probably establish 100% who the story's Thomas Beale really was. This could take a few more months to conclude.

    Incidentally, I have said repeatedly that the duel was not over a woman, and I'll continue to stand form with that based on this same information I've been trying to access. "What was Thomas Beale's occupation at the time of the duel?"
    Last edited by bigscoop; May 23, 2012 at 10:23 AM.
    "The key to finding gold is finding places where it can be accessed."

  12. #11
    Charter Member

    Jun 2007
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    (CHEESY GRIN) Thomas Beale? Sr. or Jr.? (WINK)

  13. #12
    Charter Member
    us
    http://www.etsy.com/shop/LagoonRiver

    Jun 2010
    East Coast Florida
    An older blue Excal with connector, remote, Skullie headphones, and various coils. Got rid of the rest of my machines.
    7,357
    2113 times
    Beach and Shallow Water Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by Rebel - KGC View Post
    (CHEESY GRIN) Thomas Beale? Sr. or Jr.? (WINK)
    "Which one?" Now that is the question, isn't it.
    "The key to finding gold is finding places where it can be accessed."

  14. #13
    Charter Member

    Jun 2007
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    (WINK) LOL! Thomas Beale, SR. was a CAPTAIN of Beale's Rifles in War of 1812, serving "under" General Andrew Jackson; Paschal Buford was CAPTAIN of Buford's Artillery... LOL! Did they meet Jean Lafitte in the FRENCH QUARTER of New Orleans? PROBABLY! Lynchburg, VIRGINIA had a parade & dinner for General Jackson, after the war in 1815; even Thomas Jefferson came over from Poplar Forest! James Madison was PREZ at the time; was General Andy on his way to DC to request pardon for the Lafitte Bros? MAYBE! (WINK & SHADES ON)

  15. #14
    Charter Member
    us
    http://www.etsy.com/shop/LagoonRiver

    Jun 2010
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    7,357
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    ...Again, "What was Thomas Beale's occupation at the time of the duel with Risque?"
    "The key to finding gold is finding places where it can be accessed."

  16. #15
    Kentucky Kache
    Quote Originally Posted by bigscoop View Post
    "Which one?" Now that is the question, isn't it.
    I'm thinking it a great posibility that SR. was the Thomas Beal of the story, all the way up to the time of his death (1818), and then his son, who had recently joined him in New Orleans, the Thomas Beale who visited Robert Morriss. JR. had probably become a member of the pack, and would have been continuing the work of his father. JR. was a little young to do all the things Beale is said to have done, and SR. died before the visits with Morriss, so, it would fit. Just a thought.

  17. #16
    Charter Member

    Jun 2007
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    (WINK) At the time of the duel (sometime between the Fall of 1806 or May, 1807), according to ONE LETTER, ONE ENCLOSURE - SUBJECT: THE BEALE TREASURE ("on-line")... SR. "was born in 1773, and moved from Shenandoah County to Fincastle in the early 1790's to join his brother John, who was engaged in several business enterprises." Must have been a BUSINESSMAN... THE DUEL: "Sometime between the fall of 1806 and May, 1807, a dispute arose between (SR.) and (Risque) concerning a sixteen-year old girl named Judy Hancock... (SR.) later "died in New Orleans, 1820, buried in the Presbyterian Cemetery." ANOTHER great "source" is THE BEALE PAPERS: LOST LEGACY by Robert N. Williams, in which HE said...Jean Lafitte COULD be TJB... DUNNO! LOL! (WINK)

  18. #17
    Charter Member
    us
    http://www.etsy.com/shop/LagoonRiver

    Jun 2010
    East Coast Florida
    An older blue Excal with connector, remote, Skullie headphones, and various coils. Got rid of the rest of my machines.
    7,357
    2113 times
    Beach and Shallow Water Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by Rebel - KGC View Post
    (WINK) At the time of the duel (sometime between the Fall of 1806 or May, 1807), according to ONE LETTER, ONE ENCLOSURE - SUBJECT: THE BEALE TREASURE ("on-line")... SR. "was born in 1773, and moved from Shenandoah County to Fincastle in the early 1790's to join his brother John, who was engaged in several business enterprises." Must have been a BUSINESSMAN... THE DUEL: "Sometime between the fall of 1806 and May, 1807, a dispute arose between (SR.) and (Risque) concerning a sixteen-year old girl named Judy Hancock... (SR.) later "died in New Orleans, 1820, buried in the Presbyterian Cemetery." ANOTHER great "source" is THE BEALE PAPERS: LOST LEGACY by Robert N. Williams, in which HE said...Jean Lafitte COULD be TJB... DUNNO! LOL! (WINK)
    THE DUEL: "Sometime between the fall of 1806 and May, 1807, a dispute arose between (SR.) and (Risque) concerning a sixteen-year old girl named Judy Hancock..." And the documented source of this particular information was/is?

    "was born in 1773, and moved from Shenandoah County to Fincastle in the early 1790's to join his brother John, who was engaged in several business enterprises." But what were those businesses enterprises, exactly?
    "The key to finding gold is finding places where it can be accessed."

  19. #18
    Franklin
    John Beale was a wealthy plantation owner. His wealth exceeded the expenditures of the entire US Government. He owned copper and gold mines as well. These were not ordinary working men they were extremely wealthy.

  20. #19
    Charter Member
    us
    http://www.etsy.com/shop/LagoonRiver

    Jun 2010
    East Coast Florida
    An older blue Excal with connector, remote, Skullie headphones, and various coils. Got rid of the rest of my machines.
    7,357
    2113 times
    Beach and Shallow Water Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by Franklin View Post
    John Beale was a wealthy plantation owner. His wealth exceeded the expenditures of the entire US Government. He owned copper and gold mines as well. These were not ordinary working men they were extremely wealthy.
    And when brother Thomas came to join him, what was Thomas Beale's occupational background and how did he help his brother? What service did he provide? And I'm not being coy or evasive here, but this is very critical to where I'm going with all of this.
    "The key to finding gold is finding places where it can be accessed."

  21. #20
    Charter Member

    Jun 2007
    8,406
    873 times
    (SMIRKING) "Scoop", just give us YOUR "theory" on Thomas Beale, Sr.; are YOU playing games here? I didn't write ONE LETTER, ONE ENCLOSURE - SUBJECT THE BEALE TREASURE; so ask the frigging author of THAT for "documents"; did YOU even READ IT? There is a book in the Botetourt County library in Buchanan, Va.; the Beale Family of Botetourt County is documented & MAY have the answers to YOUR need of PROOF... DUNNO. I DID read it, and it had TOO much info to copy... will just have to buy THAT book. The Beale Family had a HUGE Plantation, next to the James River, below Purgatory Mountain; Jr. was PROBABLY raised there or something, and when I find my other boxes of files, I will even tell you the name of the Ferry Crossing over there. Tell us WHAT you are looking for; we MAY be able to help you... HOWEVER! We are NOT paid by YOU, nor will we be YOUR "whipping boys". Got PROOF of what YOU got? FINE! Will look into it for you. SHEETZ!

 

 
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